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Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295122]

Wed, 14 December 2011 05:44

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Realized I wasn't done with this while shutting down the computer so I uploaded it - last post for tonight, ~~I promise~~ I hope.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Headrock/Jagged%20Alliance%202/HAM/HAM%205/Pathing_Mercs_1024_3.png

Slightly slimmer lines with pointier arrowheads. Also, the color is more vibrant. Comments please.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295125]

Wed, 14 December 2011 07:53

knightofni

Messages:96
Registered:August 2011

Very fine, i'd be glad to have it ingame.

LootFragg

Also, we need a good final destination marker. I hate the invisibly tiny dark red X. Make a large red-orange one to fit the "snakes".

200% agreee with that. The current destination marker is almost invisible. I don't really mind the shape and style, i just want to see it !

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295133]

Wed, 14 December 2011 12:46

CptMoore

Messages:224
Registered:March 2009

I'd like colors of the arrows to the amount needed for travelling.

A nice choppy gradient going from blue(fast road) to white (fast road without vehicle) to orange (slow in the green) and red (swamp slow?!).

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295136]

Wed, 14 December 2011 15:02

Sam Hotte

Messages:1963
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

Headrock

Realized I wasn't done with this while shutting down the computer so I uploaded it - last post for tonight, ~~I promise~~ I hope.

Slightly slimmer lines with pointier arrowheads. Also, the color is more vibrant. Comments please.

Make it so! Smile

And yes, better visibility to the destination mark is needed as well.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295145]

Wed, 14 December 2011 15:43

LootFragg

Messages:349
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany

CptMoore

I'd like colors of the arrows to the amount needed for travelling.

Oi, that would be awesome indeed. Think big. Good idea, Moore. A visual indicator of the travel time.

I'd add "in town" for super fast routes though. Also, I'd keep the colours close to each other, ranging from bright yellow to dark orange aka red orange.

Problem is I assume the colours can't be replaced that easily, Headrock probably has to save everything as a graphic file as opposed to mercs being coloured by the game during runtime. But with an arrow shape that can be coloured the way you want it, this would be plausible.

Headrock, great job so far. The slim arrows look good.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295146]

Wed, 14 December 2011 16:04

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

CptMoore

I'd like colors of the arrows to the amount needed for travelling.

That is an excellent idea, but as LootFragg just said it is significantly more complex because I'm using STIs - would need to figure out how to shade them, which is something I've never done on my own (did some shading for the Militia Restrictions map, but I mainly just copied the code from the Helicopter map, that doesn't count).

So for now I'll just do the arrows, see that they work and all. It should be easier to mess with a working system later on.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295162]

Wed, 14 December 2011 22:51

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Well, I just managed to cycle the arrow colors as I see fit, which means that theoretically it is quite possible to show with colors how much time it will take to travel between sectors.

However now that I've done it, I'm not so sure if it's a good idea... A little too colorful.

Any suggestions?

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295166]

Wed, 14 December 2011 23:16

Sam Hotte

Messages:1963
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

The exact duration of travel is still printed on screen like hh:mm while plotting the course, right?
And ETA is alwayas accessible at any time during travel.

So maybe it'd be enough hint if you'd cycle through three concerted colors like 1st color until 1 quarter of traveltime has past, then 2nd and finally 3rd a quarter to arrival.

Maybe still turn to the "alerting" yellow for the last 5 mins?

That way you won't be able to see by the colors if it's a fast or slow travel route but you could see if the squad is still near the starting sector, somewhere in between or due to arrive soon.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295179]

Thu, 15 December 2011 01:03

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

I'm sorry to disappoint, but it seems like I will not be able to visually show the amount of time between sectors using the color of the arrows. I was originally banking on a stored variable to tell me the traveling time for each individual sector in the path - but apparently that value is not set until AFTER the path is confirmed - at which point the arrows disappear anyway.

So we're going to have plain orange arrows - though I do think that is quite fine enough.

It's also enough work - because I now have to adapt this system to work in 800x600 and 640x480, which means redoing all the arrows in a smaller size... Ugh.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295189]

Thu, 15 December 2011 02:53

LootFragg

Messages:349
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany

Although I think progress shouldn't leave behind those without the ability to follow, I actually don't know why anyone still uses 800* or 640* when even 1024* is only half of my screen size. I could imagine this to be useful on smartphones with a tiny display but then again... what? So seriously speaking, I might be an ass but I think if lower resolutions increase the amount of work, leave them out.

I mean, 1024* is actually a low resolution these days. It doesn't mean JA2 isn't available for people with low resolutions anymore, I simply mean that if you don't use at least 1024* you won't have access to the latest eye candy. I think that's a fair trade, isn't it?

Anybody using low res, tell me why you do so because I don't see any single reason.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295190]

Thu, 15 December 2011 02:57

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Quote:

I simply mean that if you don't use at least 1024* you won't have access to the latest eye candy

That is why EDB/UDB and NIV are not available in low resolutions. However, with the pathing arrows I have actually rewritten the entire system, so it would be impossible to support 640x480 without making the graphics it would need in order to work at all.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295191]

Thu, 15 December 2011 03:39

LootFragg

Messages:349
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany

Gotcha. Say, Headrock

I just managed to cycle the arrow colors as I see fit

So first of all you can colour the arrows using simple hex codes, right? No predefined colour palette? That's good. Pretty unfortunate that you can't nail the variables containing travel time durations per sector during pathing though. Well, maybe somebody finds the information later on. If there can be a travel time display, there are per-sector travel times somewhere. Leave that for someone else to find out or maybe you'll stumble upon the info.

Anyway, can you make differently coloured pathing arrows for different means of transportation and maybe even travel bonuses (STOMP)? Well, first things first, for example I'd give Skyrider's pathing a different colour because he's in an aerial vehicle. I'd colour ground vehicle paths differently because they're restricted to certain terrain (roads and such). It would just LOOK cool, there is no actual strategical value to it. I've got a vision of Skyrider's paths being bright, almost white, it's just how I imagine it, doesn't mean this is the colour I'd prefer. Just looks cool.

Concerning travelling bonuses, that would be a cool addition I think because it shows you at a glance if your squad is being slowed down or has enough speed bonuses. I'd keep the colouring very close to the orange standard with only slight differences. Like you, I also don't want too much colour in there. Problem is I haven't figured out a scheme for myself. Travel bonuses (Hunter/Ranger trait) are determined in Skills_Settings.ini, which is where the maximum amount of stackable bonuses is found as well.

GROUP_TIME_SPENT_FOR_TRAVELLING_BY_FOOT_REDUCTION
GROUP_TIME_SPENT_FOR_TRAVELLING_IN_VEHICLE_REDUCTION
MAX_STACKABLE_LESS_TRAVEL_TIME_BONUSES

Also, an overloaded merc slows down the group I think. If so, I'd want the arrows to become slightly darker and have a slightly reddish hue. With the squad being sped up in comparison to regular speed I'd like more green but I don't know how I would want it to be scaled. Two bonuses should show more effect than one. Anyway, at the end the maximum reduction should result in a rather yellow colour rather than going all the way towards green.

But that can be implemented later as well I guess. And it isn't necessary. Just having ideas and I'm always like that when I get ideas. Very Happy

Cheeers.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295192]

Thu, 15 December 2011 03:52

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Quote:

Well, maybe somebody finds the information later on. If there can be a travel time display, there are per-sector travel times somewhere.

Oh I know where and how the travel times are calculated, but in order to co-opt those calculations for my purposes I would have to rewire a LOT of other functions, and that is out of the question for something so trivial.

Unfortunately the same goes for all your other suggestions - too much effort for what I (personally) consider too little gain. As you said, perhaps someone else will go to the trouble. For one, rewriting these functions means that they are now in HAM code - which is by definition easy to work with... especially compared to the utter mess that was there before I started to work on this. I have shaved off several hundred lines of code. This is partly because the original functions draw everything separately out of almost twice as many STI images as I'm using (and I could cut down mine by half if I gave a damn).

Interestingly however, the functions were particularly messy because of the two following things:

A) The ability to zoom the map was a planned feature in JA2, apparently, which was never used. That is why the map image is a high-resolution PCX which was only used recently when we got the larger mapscreen. This zoom feature is spread throughout the entire code - and is not usable in the least.

B) It seems that originally it was possible for the player to order his mercs to travel SLOWER than normal speed. Presumable this was supposed to improve the player's ability to attack a sector from two or more sides simultaneously. I bet they realized how stupid that would be and decided to have the "wait for simultaneous attack" feature - but they didn't remove the slow movement speed code. It too is strewn about all over the place, and makes it really hard to work with any movement-related function.

Fortunately this is really behind me at the moment. For the movement part of the map I still need to do the helicopter icon, see how the humvee works with it, and then I'm done. That leaves the city names, sector inventory counts, and the landing zone marker (though that last one looks fine to me at any size, really.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295214]

Thu, 15 December 2011 17:13

nollan

Messages:106
Registered:July 2006
Location: Le Su

LootFragg

No relevance, just personal taste. I always wanted an approximation of the squad's current position. I either had to check their pathing or remember their ETA or get a feeling for estimating the time. So I wanted the arrows to show where they are. 50% is just a quick idea, doesn't have to be. But the amount of time represented with a yellow arrow for now is pretty short. You only know they're on their way until they've reached the destination. This isn't severe in any way since you can always check out their travel route and look at the ETA below. Only thought it would be nice to see if a squad has just left or has already been moving for an hour. I tend to underestimate travel times when micromanaging something or loading a save.

Having an arrow that gradually fills with another color as the squad is moving closer to the next sector would be nice. Sort of like the bars used for merc-tasks.

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Sergeant

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295227]

Thu, 15 December 2011 19:26

Headrock

Messages:1757
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

That is actually an interesting idea - though drawing arrows with progress bars on them would be too difficult, I COULD do something with the arrow's color and position as a whole. However, to be honest right now I'm trying to limit what I'm doing with the map screen, it's very time-consuming and with little benefit, I'm just doing it because the size and position of all the icons on 1024x768 REALLY irked me.

But now that the icons have been revamped, it would be much easier to accomplish this in the future.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Larger Strategy Map in 800x600 / 1024x768[message #295233]

Thu, 15 December 2011 19:47

Sam Hotte

Messages:1963
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

Headrock

That is actually an interesting idea - though drawing arrows with progress bars on them would be too difficult, I COULD do something with the arrow's color and position as a whole.

Actually that was what i was talking about in http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=295166#Post295166 - not realizing you were not talking about actual traveling but plotting the course at this point. Smile

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Sergeant Major

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