Oh jees, I knew there was gonna be a debate, I shouldn't have said anything.

But since we're here now, and you seem to be curious, I will post this once and then I won't say anything else on the matter.

When I said "necked down .22" I meant its necked down to .22 the projectile itself is a .22, feel free to do the math. (22% of an inch is roughly about 5.7mm), Perhaps I was speaking in too broad a terms.

And theyre nothing new, there have been other small caliber, necked down pistol rounds in the past, but no one (no major company) ran with them for obvious reasons. I honestly can't remember the names now, but 2 that come to mind, a western one called the super 22 or somesuch and a russian one, wasn't exactly .22 but it was small, and necked down.

The 5.56 mm is .22 caliber too by the way, but they don't call em that, do they?





I've heard the 'poison bullet' and 'tumbling round' theory ad nauseam, over and over. All from the manufacturers of small rounds which claim their product to be stronger than the laws of physics allow. Its this kind of shock or that kind of trauma, as if a bigger bullet won't hurt you as much and then some.
Larger projectiles can and will tumble too on impact(but not before making BIG holes, shattering bones, etc), and when they do, they do that much more damage.


Now, I have no interest in refuting all their theories one by one, point by point, I'll just give you a few facts to consider, and leave it to you to decide for yourself.


What you are describing is a unstable trajectory. That usually is the result of a damaged barrel, and its not something desirable at all. The results are inaccuracy, and for such a small round, extremly poor penetrating power.

I don't understand the "only the tip counts" arguement at all. Why would that be the case?
Why exactly will it tumble on impact with something soft but not something hard?

How hard/soft are we speaking? bushes? tree branches? a wooden door? besides, surely body armour worn on a person is flexible, unlike a steel plate? Im sure if you went up to a SWAT guy or the like wearing the stuff, and you poked him with your finger (not recommended) there would be certain flexibility to it? Since you know, underneat theres flesh.

Anyway heres a little info about early M16 variant (XM16 or some such) where they used a 1:14 twist barrel and the bullets where indeed unstable, but at long range, thats not a good thing.
Or if there are some bushes in the way, or anything else by the way, once the projectile hits something, the tumbling begins (and accuracy and power go out the door):

http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/M16part2.html

That might not be the problem for a PDW but still, you can't have both. You can either peneterate kevlar (make tiny little holes, in kevlar and people) or you can have the nightmarish spewer of unstable, inaccurate choppy projectiles from hell (I'd just go for a shotgun at that point, cause the riflings in most firearms are there for a reason, to stabilize!), but you can't have both.

[Updated on: Thu, 21 February 2008 16:03] by Moderator

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