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Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #325491] Sat, 21 September 2013 06:26 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Akodo Deathseeker is currently offline Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
I see a lot of discussions on Range Stats for weapons, and discussing Max range, Effective range, etc. Here's my take on it, and it will eventually get back to JA.

Range

You see terms like maximum range and effective range on a lot of guns.

This is all basically meaningless because of all the variables that go into what determines it and what everyone means by it, which is constantly changing.

Maximum True Range for all guns is so big as to have no relevance to anything except for the idea of 'don't shoot guns in the air'. The lowly 22LR bullet can fly 1.5 miles. A more potent rifle can easily sling it's bullet 2 miles.

So what is 'effective range?' and what about things like how much energy the bullet looses traveling that far?

Well, a 30-06 bullet has basically the same energy at 1000 yards as most SMGs are delivering at the muzzle. Still, I'd not peg a 30-06 rifle with a 1000 yard 'effective range'

There's also the concept of mechanical accuracy. Basically this is 'hand a rifle to a robot who can shoot repeatedly with zero variability, so any changes on where the bullet hits are going to be 100% gun' This is generally measured in what is called Minute of Angle (MOA) which allows distance to be ignored. Basically, 1 minute of angle is roughly 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 yards, 6 inches at 600 etc. What is expressed by a gun that has MOA of X, is that 3 shots fired would fall into a circle whose diameter is equal to the MOA value. So a 1 MOA gun is expected to put all 3 shots in a 1 inch diameter circle at 100 yards and a 6 inch diameter circle at 600 yards.

Most guns have a mechanical accuracy of 2 or 3 MOA. Even with very crappy 5 MOA accuracy that still means shots are going to be hitting in a 15 inch diameter circle at 300 yards.

Few people can shoot better than a 'crappy' 5 MOA target. The 'kill' circle on the targets the US military uses for it's marksmanship test is 16 cm (6 inches) at 100 yards and 48CM (19 inches) on it's 300 yard target. It's generally these targets at 100 yards and beyond that give soldiers trouble. Roughly 20% of soldiers score "Expert" which is hitting 90% of the targets.

Raw mechanical accuracy really isn't much of a hinderance either.

However, the ability of a human to tap that mechanical accuracy and harness that giant range is a challenge.

Take a look at this, the sight from a 1903 springfield rifle

Part Name Range Used
a Top "U" Notch 2850 yards
b "U" Notch 1400 to 2750 yards
c Battle Sight Notch 400 to 530 yards
d Bottom Sight Notch 100 to 2450 yards
e Peep Sight 100 to 2350 yards
f Windage Scale Eleven per side (each marking equals 4 minute of angle at 100 yards)


Can the human eye even SEE a person standing at 2850 yards?

In almost all cases of 'how far away can this gun shoot effectively' it is the human who is the weak link.

Now, there are some features that can either help or hinder a human. Being able to aim is one of them. Take that 1903 springfield rifle above and cut off the rear and front sight. The mechanical accuracy is unchanged, the maximum range is unchanged, the power of the round as it flies down-range is unchanged, but the ability of the human to hit things with that gun are now drastically changed.

Having sights were the front and rear are far apart is a big help, having well designed sights that are crisp, sharp, and easy to use is a big help. Having a fixed solid shoulder stock allows the shooter to hold the gun more steadily, a flimsy folding stock is much better than no stock, a crisp trigger break helps, a trigger that takes lot of effort to pull will hurt the shooter's chance to hit, etc, etc.

RANGE should be a quick shorthand of at what range a reasonably skilled shooter should stand a pretty good chance of hitting a target.

For JA2 this should be a number you see somewhere on the gun's stat page.

Closer is always better, but this is relative. A handgun may have a RANGE value of 25 yards. A target at 20 yards is going to be easier to shoot with that handgun...but a target at 50 yards being shot at with a rifle that has a range of 100 yards is easier still.

Because of how far the bullet can go there should never be a point where the game says 'you cannot shoot'. Also, being slightly beyond what the listed range is shouldn't give a HUGE drop in likelihood of hitting, but it should give some...and as you step further and further away, that penalty should really begin to stack up.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 January 2014 16:26] by Moderator

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