The Bears Pit: v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

did you find something

or do you have new orders for a restart?

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #218328]

Fri, 29 May 2009 00:47

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

I have the file but haven't had any time to work on JA2. I should before the end of the next weekend.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #218329]

Fri, 29 May 2009 00:48

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

thx

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220346]

Wed, 10 June 2009 03:05

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

Hey, I looked at your save sand it looks like you just overextended yourself.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220386]

Wed, 10 June 2009 09:47

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

i don't understand that

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220462]

Wed, 10 June 2009 15:26

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

You are just seeing the "normal" counterattacks done after you take over a sector. Because you took over all of Cambria there are 4 of them going on at once.

So 4 of those attack groups are sent out, 1 for each of the sectors. Each one arrives and attacks. You defeat it. The normal AI then evaluates your defense, decides it is weak, and sends out another attack.

Because you never manage to build up enough of a defense (i.e., militia) for the AI to consider the sector a tough one to attack it always just keeps sending out more attack groups. You are close enough to the troop source that the attacking groups arrive very quickly.

You can see the same thing in any town but with Drassen or Chitzena the attacking groups are not as strong (strength is partly dependent on distance to the capital) and have farther to go so you get more time to build up your defenses.

I'd also guess that a couple of the attacks might have been reinforcement groups though I can't tell that because they are already gone.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220463]

Wed, 10 June 2009 15:32

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

so that means b-008.exe makes taking cambria first sth like a nono (you need 4 sectors to actually train militia)?

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220501]

Wed, 10 June 2009 19:13

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

That would have happened even with the regular ja2. None of my new code was getting involved.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220503]

Wed, 10 June 2009 19:20

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

i've done that with the regular (nice expression, btw) ja several times, there were never so many attacks - and no as i know it isn't a bug i'll find a way to get it stopped - maybe i'll start a hunting party while slowly (very slowly) training militia.

sir, captain, sir! this marine will keep you informed, sir!

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220886]

Fri, 12 June 2009 19:19

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

weird !!

1. you were right - as i managed to get dark-blue militia it was all quiet on western front
2. so i opened an eastern front
3. invaded drassen international, shot one redshirt and here it is the good old 'a1-crepitus-bug' i visited a1 (nada) and back to drassen: [color:#CC0000]?[/color] but no enemy, couln't prevent one frustrated mr lamont from shooting pablo => mail from br's

need a save? [color:#3333FF]judith: i could not reproduce it[/color]

Logisteric

edith: guess this one doesn't work with vfs, sniff :umbrella:

[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2009 19:30] by Moderator

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220910]

Fri, 12 June 2009 21:30

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

Are you saying you fled into the mines and then when you came back out the soldiers were missing? yeah, that's an original code bug. You just need to move off the edge of the map and back on and the soldiers will be there.

I am working on getting a VFS version to work but with so many changes it's hard to be sure my changes didn't get overwritten.

[Updated on: Fri, 12 June 2009 21:31] by Moderator

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220912]

Fri, 12 June 2009 21:34

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

no - in the midst of combat the game went to strategical map - sector a1 lid up in red with a creature attack - oc there was no creature when 'i came back' to drassen international airport - no more enemy

btw there is no mine in the airport-sector

WIERD

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220913]

Fri, 12 June 2009 21:39

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

Huh. Never seen that before.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220914]

Fri, 12 June 2009 21:53

BirdFlu

Messages:438
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan

SpaceViking

I am working on getting a VFS version to work but with so many changes it's hard to be sure my changes didn't get overwritten.

The VFS in the VFS version is relatively separated from the rest of the code. It has actually its own project files. The "connection" to the game is mostly done through FileMan.cpp and IniReader.cpp. Some initialization code was also updated (sgp.cpp and Init.cpp). The rest is multiplayer code and other updates and bugfixes. And although a lot of files were touched, many of them contain only a couple of modified lines.

If you're using the CIniReader class (instead of GetProvateProfileString), then you shouldn't have any problems using the VFS.

Master Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #220919]

Fri, 12 June 2009 23:20

Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA

I picked up all the recent changes and quite a few were to some of the same places I was working. I don't know their sources beyond the obvious spots.

First Sergeant

.[message #226379]

Thu, 09 July 2009 06:28

free8082002

Messages:21
Registered:January 2003
Location: Argentina

[Updated on: Fri, 10 July 2009 00:11] by Moderator

Private 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #226386]

Thu, 09 July 2009 09:58

Starwalker

Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany

If you want to recruit Maria, look for the PCM mod.

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #226434]

Thu, 09 July 2009 14:45

Kaerar

Messages:2022
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D

free8082002

I try many times play whit Maria moding myself but only CTD for me.

Ah you're the hot Latino kinda man are ya Wink

Lieutenant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #226437]

Thu, 09 July 2009 14:52

gmonk

Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

:biglaugh:
I heard that if you mod yourself too often you'll go blind.

Edit: And Starwalker is right, check Off_Topic's thread in the "Other Campaigns" forum. You can read about it there and there are links to it. Wink

[Updated on: Thu, 09 July 2009 14:55] by Moderator

First Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235802]

Sat, 24 October 2009 01:21

Charlie_May

Messages:27
Registered:March 2009

Hello SpaceViking,

In the first part of this thread, you wrote:

Quote:

The game has some fixed internal maximums that it uses for setting up data in the files and such. Someday these can be done away with or made to be flexible but for now they will stay. The limits will be like this with my changes:

Maximum number of player mercenaries: 32 (currently 18)
Maximum number of vehicles: 6 (currently 2, sort of)
Maximum number of enemy soldiers: 64 (currently 32)
Maximum number of creatures (crepitus and bloodcats): 40 (currently 32)
Maximum number of rebels: 64 (currently 32)
Maximum number of civilians: 40 (currently 32)

The total of all these has to be 246 or less if I recall correctly. Going beyond that limit would involve massive changes everywhere due to some unfortunate coding choices of the original programmers.

Does it mean that if you lower the max number of creatures, or any other, you could raise the max number of mercs, or is 32 also a fixed limit? Also, would you ever consider raising again the max number of mercs, with the arrival of HAM facilities, and arduous suppression system? I always wanted to hire all of AIM mercs (40) in one heavily modified EPIC insane game, and I just wanted to know if it could ever happen, or forget about it.

And thanks again for changing it to 18 to 32. That is already fantastic. I don't mean to be greedy.

Private 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235803]

Sat, 24 October 2009 01:39

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

1. 32 mercs is a fixed value
2. space-viking seems to be awol, UNFORTUNATELY

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235912]

Sun, 25 October 2009 20:55

Charlie_May

Messages:27
Registered:March 2009

So 32 mercs is the maximum value that the code could ever allow?

That's too bad... Guess I won't ever have my epic game. Thanks for making it clear, Logisteric.

Private 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235914]

Sun, 25 October 2009 21:09

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

There aren't enough mercs in the game to allow that anyway. That's what Militia are for, perhaps one day we'll be able to control them, but until then you can have some pretty massive battles with them on your side.

Sergeant Major

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235918]

Sun, 25 October 2009 21:20

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

@Headrock, AIM, MERC and PCM are reason enough to remove the 32 cap.

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235929]

Mon, 26 October 2009 00:36

cdudau

That is entirely to much micro-managing! That equals=sloppy gameplay. Mercenaries aren't utilized to the best of there abilities. This is just my opinion, being that I am getting better and better at strategizing. I am sure that some members of the Pit will disagree.

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235959]

Mon, 26 October 2009 11:11

Watchman

Messages:101
Registered:August 2008
Location: Philippines

^That's true if you're playing the game in the vanilla enemy AI. With the modded set-up some people are using though, especially the aggressive AI feature of this particular mod, 32 mercs will start to feel small.

Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235970]

Mon, 26 October 2009 15:03

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

craigmsandy,Whats wrong with choice? I have to suffer because you don't like it?
JA2 1.13 is about having choice isn't it? Where were you when they put 10000 guns and accessories into the game?
If you want to play a certain way then set up your own game. DO NOT tell me how to play my game!

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235985]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:08

Uriens

Messages:346
Registered:July 2006

Space Viking was the guy who tackled the original merc limit problem (18 mercs max). He discovered that there is global limit of actors that can be on the map at one time. It was about 230 or something close to it. The original game used only half of that limit so he expanded it to the max. The he set up incresed numbers of enemies/civilians/militia and mercs you can have in game. This is why you can have 64 enemies at once in the sector as opposed to 32 in the original game. However, since there is that 230 (or close to this number) global limit of actors on map, in order to increase merc limit you would have to reduce another limit so you would end up having less enemies or militia or civilians in game. Since max available values are hardcoded, he picked the values he thought best (asking community about their opinion as well) and set them this way. You can fine tune exact numbers of mercs/militia/enemies/civilians in ini files but you can't increase any one max value without changing code. And that would come at the expense of other values.

There is yet another angle to this - increasing max merc number did cause a number of bugs to crop up in game, some of them were fixed by Space Viking himself and some cropped up later and were both harder to find and fix (like morale bug).
Point is that changing max merc number is anything but simple matter of removing some limit. You can't change those values in ini files since they are hardcoded and noone was able to remove that 230 (something) cap in game so you CAN'T have more mercs without sacrificing something else.

Master Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235986]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:09

Charlie_May

Messages:27
Registered:March 2009

As always with 1.13, it just depends on how you play/modify the game. If 1. you play insane diff. with 64 max enemies, and rarely reload 2. you reluctantly use militia as they lack personality and mostly act as cannon fodder, 3. you like attacking multiple fronts/cities at the same time, 4. you want to make full use of HAM facilities/suppression systems... etc... Then you might put more than 32 mercs to good use.

But frankly, to me it was also about seeing the whole of the AIM roster grayed out with the "hired" label - stats almost maxed out - and then attacking Meduna from 3 different sectors at a time!

EDIT : By the way Uriens, I understood the thing about the hardcoded limit (246 actors). In my first post I was actually suggesting to lower the number of max creatures, as to leave space for mercs. But I regret it, as I did not want to create a debate, and did not understand then how complicated it could be.

[Updated on: Mon, 26 October 2009 17:15] by Moderator

Private 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235990]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:27

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

It seems To me that if you play a game where you just keep going as Charlie_May describes you have no need for more than 32 however if you play a game of occupation then you can use all the help you can get.

@ Uriens, I have a map that demonstrates your global limit. It is a road fort and it crashes after I kill 240 in one battle. In that map they never stop reinforcing and the strategic map says there are still 25 or so left. 3000+ items.

What I do not understand is the relationship between the total of mercs hireable to the total limit of actors on the sector map that you are describing. Are you saying that there can only be 230 actors in country at any one time? If so that does not compute. what about patrols and garrisons etc?

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235991]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:36

Uriens

Messages:346
Registered:July 2006

Well, I didn't do the change myself, Spaceviking did but IIRC from old thread he mentioned that the merc number and total number of actors in SECTOR map were connected. I guess in the code, the game allows only as much total mercs as it can show on in the sector at one time. So if it can show only 32 mercs in sector, you can only have 32 mercs total. OFC I didn't look at this in code so most of it is from memory of the old thread.

Master Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235992]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:46

Uriens

Messages:346
Registered:July 2006

Max number of enemies you can kill in sector is not something that was discussed then (I didn't know game crashes after 240 enemies at all). The max limit applies to how much enemies can exist in sector at one time. Since it's 64 max, you can have 64 enemies in sector at once even if 200 attacked you. As some of those enemies die, others will come in to replace them never going above the max value. When you have a case of lots of enemies attacking you in sector, you can go to strategic view and right click on the sector. It will show you 2 numbers in the Enemies field. First one is the number of enemies present in sector at that time and the other one is in brackets () and shows the total number of enemies that attack that sectors. Drassen counterattack is best example here. As you kill enemies in sector, you will see that first number usually fluctuates close to max values, since enemy constantly gets reinforcements, but the number in brackets will steadily drop. Once the value of brackets is same as the first number, it will no longer show up in that tooltip - this means all enemies that attacked the sector are present on the map. What I'm trying to say is that the crash of 240 enemies you mentioned is not really related to that max value I mentioned, you probably stumbled on a new bug there.

Master Sergeant

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235993]

Mon, 26 October 2009 17:49

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

what could be related is when you save with more than 24 (i think) personnel (mercs and cars) the save-game is fucked up - this may be the reason why space-viking set default to 24 mercs

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235994]

Mon, 26 October 2009 18:00

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

I don't think it is a bug as I have had other sectors crash in the middle of very large battles several times over the years. I believe it has to do with too many items on the ground and/or some kind of buffer overrun or something like that where the game cannot keep track of all the information. Just a guess, I have no knowledge.
I would really like to be able to hire all mercs and npcs that are hireable because I like to play control games where towns have to be defended and are under constant attack. The INI allows for hourly attacks so I need enough mercs so that some can sleep once in a while.

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235995]

Mon, 26 October 2009 18:04

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

it's probably a savegame that gets too fat = memory problem

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235996]

Mon, 26 October 2009 18:24

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

Yes I agree, I wonder if that could be enlarged.

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #235997]

Mon, 26 October 2009 18:32

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

that may depend on your machine - as i use a cromagnon pIII for ja i have to save a lot (no quicksaves) during the drassen-counter-attack - i tried that on a friends brand new dell (usb-stick) - there was no problem

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #236000]

Mon, 26 October 2009 19:06

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

So you say it depends on system ram?

Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #236002]

Mon, 26 October 2009 19:12

Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B

at least it looks like that to me - noone ever reported that kind of ctds during the drassen-counter-attack, but i have them (me goz lousy 2x128 stoneage sd-ram) your maps would probably nuke my motherboard

Captain

Re: Space Viking's releases (was: Many Mercenaries...)[message #236004]

Mon, 26 October 2009 19:21

Messages:244
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA

off topic - I am about to nuke my motherboard with windows 7 coming in the mail today.

well I have 2 gig memory so I figured that I was safe but vista is using half of that so who knows.