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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257722]
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Wed, 28 July 2010 03:40  
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| HLTVpro |
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Messages:210
Registered:October 2008
Location: USA / PRC |
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JinxedNickfighterShadow without being a ranger would be called Fog...Everybody can see Fog 
Except Shadow is an ex US Ranger (military) and has the hunter trait. Which btw I think is quite funny.
It is useful to have some kind of trait that has the current ranger abilities, just imo needs to be reworked into something else. I just cannot accept the fact that there would be highly trained ex military personnel who are hunter or ranger in this form. Rebels, or MERC mercs like Gasket yes it makes sense. But not ex military...
well, then start thinking of something. cuz everyone else was okay with it 
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i thought swimming was already incorporated in athletics. hmm.
i do aggree swimming and diving skill makes a huge difference in actual combat. i cannot swim to save my life and that is the reason i was not qualified for boarding team (VBSS) Q_Q...most navy seals were great swimmers, some are on professional athletic level. i've know a few seals who does Ironman too. one of my ex-roomate in A school was a seal, he got up at 4 every other morning to swim in the lake, in winter, while i huddled in my bed....
BUT, it does not make that much of a difference in JA2. dedicating swimming as a individual minor trait is a waste of trait point. first, there are only so much water in JA2, fighting in maps without water makes the trait useless; second, you dont absolutely have to swim to get to somewhere, no matter how good you can swim, being in the water while the enemy is shooting at you still put you at a disadvantage.
it would be fun to do the ninja-straw thing tho, make you invisible in water, lol.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257765]
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Wed, 28 July 2010 13:09
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 Forral |
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Messages:71
Registered:May 2009
Location: Sweden |
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Yeah, that's kind of how I saw it. The trait or proficiency or whatever you make it wouldn't be there to simply reduce the penalties you take while swimming. If that was the case, I agree that it would be a pointless feat. You don't need reduced penalties for something that you're never forced to do at all, you'd just choose to never do it to begin with. However, if the trait could turn the disadvantage of water into a significant advantage- making any body of water, regardless of its size into a potential deathtrap for any enemy that goes near it, I could definitely see a use for the trait.
A comparison can be made between Water and Rooftops. Water leaves you exposed, unable to return fire, and sucks up all your APs currently. So everyone avoids it. What if rooftops did the same thing? Would anyone get on the rooftops? Probably not. They would be a liability, and the only reason to climb over them would be to traverse them on a few occasions where that would be more beneficial than staying on the ground. Rooftops are however much used as it stands. They provide a measure of cover, can force enemies to close closer to find you- and there's a whole plethora of tactics applicable to rooftops because they are not simply "obstacles".
If you through the trait would have much improved stealthiness in water and signficantly decreased penalties, would water still be an obstacle? No. It would be a tool, allowing you to stealthily come out of the water, take your shots and then dissapear again into the deep blue before the enemies know where you went, or perhaps come out of the water with a whole squad, like out of nowhere and devestate whole enemy outposts. There isn't a doubt in my mind that such a bonus could be tremendously useful in many maps of the game. Not *all* maps, granted, but balancing it against traits that would be useful overall would simply require that the bonuses from Swimming, Diving or Amphibious Training (Whatever you'd call it) are much higher comparatively. The choice would then come down to: "Do I want a trait that helps a little bit all the time, or do I want a trait that helps *a lot* occasionally?"
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Corporal
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257781]
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Wed, 28 July 2010 20:01
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| Jinxed |
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Messages:238
Registered:October 2008
Location: Land of Skanks and Cottag... |
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I already proposed to change ranger into pointman.
Quote:i thought swimming was already incorporated in athletics. hmm.
i do aggree swimming and diving skill makes a huge difference in actual combat. i cannot swim to save my life and that is the reason i was not qualified for boarding team (VBSS) Q_Q...most navy seals were great swimmers, some are on professional athletic level. i've know a few seals who does Ironman too. one of my ex-roomate in A school was a seal, he got up at 4 every other morning to swim in the lake, in winter, while i huddled in my bed....
BUT, it does not make that much of a difference in JA2. dedicating swimming as a individual minor trait is a waste of trait point. first, there are only so much water in JA2, fighting in maps without water makes the trait useless; second, you dont absolutely have to swim to get to somewhere, no matter how good you can swim, being in the water while the enemy is shooting at you still put you at a disadvantage.
it would be fun to do the ninja-straw thing tho, make you invisible in water, lol.
Crouching tiger hidden dragon anyone?
Yeah, having a dedicated trait to swimming is useless.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257794]
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Wed, 28 July 2010 21:43
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| lockie |
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Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland |
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Quote:If you through the trait would have much improved stealthiness in water and signficantly decreased penalties, would water still be an obstacle? No. It would be a tool, allowing you to stealthily come out of the water, take your shots and then dissapear again into the deep blue before the enemies know where you went, or perhaps come out of the water with a whole squad, like out of nowhere and devestate whole enemy outposts. There isn't a doubt in my mind that such a bonus could be tremendously useful in many maps of the game. Not *all* maps, granted, but balancing it against traits that would be useful overall would simply require that the bonuses from Swimming, Diving or Amphibious Training (Whatever you'd call it) are much higher comparatively. The choice would then come down to: "Do I want a trait that helps a little bit all the time, or do I want a trait that helps *a lot* occasionally?"
I agree with you there , swimming as it is now is next to useless , far too noisy , mebbe if Smeagol can come up with diving/snorkel gear , along with your trait , stealthy water attack would become possible ?
Go for it !
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257804]
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Wed, 28 July 2010 22:49
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| HLTVpro |
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Messages:210
Registered:October 2008
Location: USA / PRC |
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For the sapper/combat engineer major trait, a bonus to operate electronic devices should be incorporated to engineer trait. such as the xray device/commander's PDA/remote trigger, if that's possible; also a skill similar to the docter's surgical intervention, a combat engineer can use tool box on a broken weapon in combat to restore some of the conditions (but will take one or two rounds and will drain much of the tool box). it can be useful when you pickup a half broken weapon in combat and wishes to use it (for example, a rocket launcher. let the grease monkey tinker it real quick, so your bombadier wouldn't blow himself into pieces)
more bonus to the robot when operated by a combat engineer---AP, turning rate, etc, while more penalty vice versa, also a CtH and AP penalty to the controller which can be negated by engineer skill (sapper reduces penalty to half).
For instance, if you give the robot to Hamous to operate, robot will only have 80AP, a -20% CtH, and turns at a 50% increased AP cost, while Hamous take a -10AP penalty and -2% CtH.
so this is what i suggest, based on Forral's suggestion
Quote:Sapper
[Updated on: Wed, 28 July 2010 22:50] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257852]
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Thu, 29 July 2010 10:08
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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Well, I guess it would be cheating unless you give the AI the ability to cut through fences themselfs, in which case the game will become much harder later on.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: STOMP v1.12[message #257875]
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Thu, 29 July 2010 16:20
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We know that mines can plug up a damaged fence as a improvisation. A new feature, that has the same animation as cutting the fence, would be a very nice feature. It is possible to cut the fence with wire cutters/kcb knifes. Why can we not reverse that action using the exact same animation, but with a different item/tool?
[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2010 16:29] Report message to a moderator
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And maybe someone knows what might be wrong - maybe I need just to copy some xml-s somewhere or something...?
