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Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349094 is a reply to message #349090]

Thu, 02 March 2017 11:46

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Ok, ok, I will personally let it rest until you figure it out. Just for the sake of hearing wtf they have to say.

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349095 is a reply to message #349094]

Thu, 02 March 2017 12:44

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

Topware claims that the form of distribution that they chose is to make it easier for players to install and that was the only reason to bundle 1.13. I highly doubt that this does any player a favor because they are bundling 7609, a very old version with quite a few nasty bugs which have only been fixed in more current builds and Sevenfm's experimental exe.

Also I wonder if it's really that difficult to install original JA2 and then copy the contents of an archive into the installation directory because that is what needs to be done to install 1.13.

To me it looks like they just want to push sales numbers by adding a (in my opinion) "must have mod" that was created and maintained by others (us). Even if we'd agree to some form of free distribution via Steam they should have at least asked us and given proper credit. What they did to begin with was NOT OK. If they did something like that on the Nexus their project would have been taken offline in no time and they probably would get banned for being stubborn about it.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349097 is a reply to message #349095]

Thu, 02 March 2017 13:07

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Slowly the whole thing is starting to come to light:

Quote:

Raidor [dph] [developer] 2 hours ago
Strategy First has no rights to Jagged Alliance - they sold the whole IP to BitComposer AG and after the insolvency of this company the IP rights former owned by Strategy First have been sold to Nordic Games. - but all of this has nothing to do with Jagged Alliance 2 - the rights of this game have been owned by TopWare CD Service AG, which finenced the developement. After TWCD filed insolvency in 2001 the rights have been sold to Zuxxez Entertainment AG. And fater insolvency of Zuxxez in Feb. 2016 the rights for JA2 and JA2 Wildfire have been sold by August 1st 2016 to TopWare Interactive - AC Enterprises e.K.
In fact any legal documents once issued by Strategy First are null. They never had any rights to JA2 and/or the source code. And by now they also have not. JA2 is and was ever a project financed by TopWare CD Service AG. The legal chain is to Zuxxez and now to ACE.
However - we now get closer, to what the problem is. Mod 1.13 is free and should not be sold! - this was not our intention. We wanted to give it out for free (and properly installed) with any purchase of JA2 Classic. We are now in talks wit at least one of the mod team members and will find a proper way to handle this to everyones satisfaction.

At least they now have a face - TopWare Interactive - AC Enterprises e.K. Not to be confused with the old defunct TopWare CD Service AG
Anyway, talk you then, see what they're on about, but for God's sake, watch what you're saying in your correspondence. Their above claims are quite wild and quite likely to cause a shitstorm soon.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 March 2017 13:35]

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349098 is a reply to message #349097]

Thu, 02 March 2017 15:10

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

What "Raidor" claims doesn't match any of the publicly available information I could find. Just to make sure - we are talking about the "Intellectual Property" - not some licenses granted to anybody or the product being developed/published by anybody because that doesn't matter at all.

According to the information I could find the IP went this route:

Mad Labs Software was the original IP holder (reference)
Sir-Tech acquired Mad Labs Software and with that the IP (reference)
Sir-Tech went bancrupt and the IP went to Sir-Tech Canada (reference)
IP was acquired by Strategy First (reference)
Strategy First was acquired by Silverstar Holdings which also went bancrupt (reference)
IP was acquired by bitComposer Entertainment AG from Strategy First (what was left of it)
bitComposer sold the IP to Nordic Games (now THQ Nordic) (reference)

According to that publicly available information Topware has no rights at all to the Jagged Alliance IP.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349099 is a reply to message #349098]

Thu, 02 March 2017 15:41

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

You are pretty much correct.

- In 2000 Topware CD was the EU publisher for JA2 while TalonSoft handled US market
- In 2001 they filed for bankruptcy
- Same year the same guys created Zuzzex and bought off Topware CD assets
- In 2005 Zuzzex was renamed Topware Interactive
- In 2016 Topware Interactive filed for bankruptcy
- In 2017 (?) same guys created Topware ACe and bought off Zuzzex/Topware assets

There is a pattern here I would say, but I will not comment on it. And the same guy behind all these companies (Dirk P. Hassinger).

Why they claim SFI has no rights over JA2 source code it is beyond my knowledge. As far as I know the only IP holder was Ian Currie (through his own company) who personally sold the IP to SFI. Talonsoft, Interplay, Topware, Buka and others were simply publishers for one version or the other. They NEVER had any claim over the IP.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 March 2017 18:43]

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349101 is a reply to message #349099]

Thu, 02 March 2017 16:46

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

From what another guy in the Steam thread linked Topware seems to have a record for selling stuff they don't own and have no rights to anymore...
(You already quoted this some posts above.)

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349102 is a reply to message #349101]

Thu, 02 March 2017 16:59

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

silversurfer wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 16:46

From what another guy in the Steam thread linked Topware seems to have a record for selling stuff they don't own and have no rights to anymore...
(You already quoted this some posts above.)

Shush you... It was not them... I was THE OTHER, evil Topware (still them, but hey...) devil

[Updated on: Thu, 02 March 2017 17:00]

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349103 is a reply to message #349102]

Thu, 02 March 2017 17:00

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

Maybe we should drop THQ Nordic a little hint that someone is using their IP for commercial purposes. They will know what to do with it.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349104 is a reply to message #349103]

Thu, 02 March 2017 17:03

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

silversurfer wrote on Thu, 02 March 2017 17:00

Maybe we should drop THQ Nordic a little hint that someone is using their IP for commercial purposes. They will know what to do with it.

I see someone on reddit already did that. Yes, I think Nordic should know. In the end, JA2 was a big factor for them buying off bitComposer.

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349105 is a reply to message #349104]

Thu, 02 March 2017 21:34

Flugente

Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany

I've communicated with Topware, and they've now taken all traces of 1.13 down from steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/545210/). I am satisfied with this.

I can't comment on the other IP/licence/whatever related issues raised in this thread, as that's way over my paygrade.

I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349106 is a reply to message #349105]

Thu, 02 March 2017 21:55

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Effective today, v1.13 mod was removed from the Topware's JA2 Classic package, following the DMCA complaints of the v1.13 devs.
Topware or whoever is behind this store needs to sort their claims over the JA2 IP with THQ Nordic lawyers and leave v1.13 mod alone. We will try to get an official position from THQ Nordic in the near future, just to clear the air completely. In the meantime, v1.13 mod will continue to be available for free (and fully supported) from the usual source - our community.
We will now gladly put this one behind us - again with many thanks to all who stood up and helped. You guys rock!

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Captain

Re: Jagged Alliance 2 on Android by ExaGear RPG[message #349108 is a reply to message #349106]

Thu, 02 March 2017 23:35

BattleGnome

Messages:60
Registered:April 2016

I am glad to see this come to a sensible resolution. Now that 1.13 has been removed from Steam I guess the communities concerns end there, but I do hope Nordic tear them apart!

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Corporal

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