Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » "1.13" Mod - Main Thread
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10724] Wed, 07 September 2005 21:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2861
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Good to hear that the pictures were received.

Not sure if this belongs here or in the new items/weapons thread: Now that there are multiple underslung grenade launchers, is possible to make a "trial" bayonet by simply making an underslung launcher with the properties of a machete (including animation). The Scorpion mentioned that this worked with a previous JA2 exe, but required the sacrifice of the Talon. I'm not suggesting this as a permanent solution, but the now avail underslung GL's do open the option of a "quick and dirty" way to get a bayonet in for game play testing.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10725] Wed, 07 September 2005 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
I have a concern about the whole project, actually it's more of a feeling of disappointment in the secretive nature of some modders on this forum, specifically members of the "Mod Squad". Now I do have to respect their skills, but it seems to me that they have a sort of elitist nature about them. From what Bearpit posted last month about their project, they've only got 4 people working on. And not sure if Batman is one of them, although, he does seem interested in this project that Mugsy has started, so maybe he is, maybe he isn't.

I just kind of expected that this would all turn into an "open source" type of community project with those that had the skills leading, and those that didn't learning and helping. And after watching the WhiteHat project for over a year and seeing nothing come about, I can understand why several groups intent on doing SOMETHING split off and did what they did. I mean personally I didn't share my project information with anyone because no one was interested, hell, even the deadly games fans didn't seem to thrilled. I can understand that, you don't know what to expect until it's finished, and then you can appreciate it, but getting excited over yet another "false promise" to provide them with the style of play they are used to, in a more advanced game engine is not going to happen with that crowd.

But what we're going to end up with is about 5 completely different styles of incompatible games and tools that don't work across versions. For instance, we could really use the source for the Beta Editor, but that belongs to another "team". I'm sure Bearpit would be interested in some of our ideas, and they may or may not incorporate them, but it sure would be nice to meld the two projects into one, then we'd have at minimum 10 people working on one project, instead of 4 people over there and 6 over here.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10726] Thu, 08 September 2005 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grindedstone

 
Messages:90
Registered:August 2004
Kaiden, i do agree that things need to be more unified, but we also need a decent version to back things off. Mugsy has removed the item limit, from now on all mods should have have no item limit (example)

sure this may take time, but if this 1.13 is done right, it will be a strong base for further mods by having reduced the difficulty/removed barriers.

I am not a programmer and am just a spectator in this project, but i think the good programmers we have such as you should all work in cleaning out your own selection of code that (if possiable) is not affected by other code, so we can have 10 poeple over 10 places for now while we establish a base, but if this 1.13 is a great base making future mods easier, everyone should work on laying the foundations, then installing the plumming and electricity (editors and tools) then the frames, wells and paint can be the mod makers choice, but it is vital to have a strong base.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10727] Thu, 08 September 2005 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
I was talking more about the other modders on this forum, What's left of the "Mod Squad" is currently working on a project, and other than Bearspit, I don't know who else is involved with that, but they are heavily modifying the source code from what I read in the post. In addition, I'm sure there are at least another group or 3 that are doing the same thing. If we all just worked together, we'd get everything done in twice the time, but the end result would be much better I think. I beleive Mugsy is looking at sharing his code, he just doesn't have version control right now, so only one person can modify the code without causing issues. And we can't all just work on one peice of the code, because beleive me, if you want to change something, chances are, you're change is going to effect any number of files, and depending on the type of change your making, it could affect almost all of them. No the problem I was referring to, is the fact that there are at least 2 modding projects going on right now, and probably more that we don't even know about yet, and since the source code was released, all of those projects will be modifying it at least a little. We'll end up with 5 different 1.12+ versions of the executable, different methods of externalization of data, different map formats etc... And Moding will not only become a pain for the modders, it will become a pain for the end user.

Essentially, we'll end up with the whole Betamax vs. VHS debacle, and in the end, the majority of modders will chose one or the other or the other to mod, so they don't have to learn how to mod all of them, the end user thus has the disadvantage of losing one great feature over another, because he wants to play ModX, but with VersionY and ModX wasn't made for VersionY, it was made for VersionZ which is incompatible and lacking a Feature that he/she likes.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10728] Thu, 08 September 2005 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1829
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I agree that unity would be the best way to get the game we all want done without having multiple incompatabilities that could well result in making more work to 'homogenize' the code than the work of actually making the changes.

However, we have to work with what we have here and (thanx to Mugsy) what we have is a hugely - no drastically improved version that he has even taken the time to make non programmer friendly. To my knowledge noone else has this concern even on thier plate. It's great to make changes and have a new version of the .exe but isn't Mugsy's approach waaayyy better?
What this guy is doing is making the tools for easy modifacations so that those of us with a little creativity but no compiler (not to mention no programming skill) can turn our attention away from the technical problems of modding and get on with the important work of actually making new mods. I strongly believe THIS project to be the most likely great innovation in the entire series. It's possible a proffessional outfit might come out with something cool, but they seem to be incessantly dragging thier collective ass so this is by far our best bet. And I have to add it is a very good one at that.
Think about it, here we have a developer (Mgsy) who actually solicits our input then - and this is threally astounding thing - implements the more sensable suggestions as soon as he can!

Please, take a look at what we have here before getting frustrated or losing any faith. Mugsy has documented his Updated code the same place he offers the EXE download. Ideally, he would also document each and every change but since there are so many lines this might slow him down or (God forbid) even turn him off to the whole thing.
I say any contribution the Mod Squad can offer would be greatly appreciated but if they choose to go in thier own direction (perhaps because of the numerous incompatable changes thier version has compared to Mugsy's) I only hope what they produce is of the same calibur as what we've already seen here.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10729] Thu, 08 September 2005 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:646
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I kinda like the way that things are evolving in this project that Mugsy's got going. There's plenty of community involvement, testing/bug reporting (informal) and the code is overseen by the chief architect. It's a good open source model of development (although the source isn't really licenced to be community-owned.) The other projects are obviously choosing a different path and seeking their own counsel on things to change in the code, that's fine too. Kinda like the differences between the way that BSD and Linux development models differ.

If joining all of these projects together means that this project gets slowed down while waiting for organisational reasons, it's not really a good idea. If there are more and different ideas that's not always bad. In the end there will be a bunch of code that can all be integrated with the best ideas, or not. It's not like Mugsy's been quietly developing this without any notion of the vision of the game that people want to see, it's been pretty exciting to see and I think the ideas bouncing around are almost as much fun as playing the game.

Codesplits and such are normal in many community-based projects and the code gets reused and merged into new projects anyway. It's evolutionary. I can't wait to see what comes out of all this. Has anyone from the other projects made any comment?
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10730] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Khor, I wasn't getting frustrated, and I wasn't slamming Mugsy or anyone, I'm definitely agreeing with what he's doing, and I'll be helping out as much as I possibly can.

I was just thinking that it could all be better if all teams were on the same project, bu then gpmg made a very valid point, that I agree with, and so it's done Smile We'll wait and see how things go. I've already picked the project I want to be in on... this one.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10731] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1829
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Right. I totally agree. And I wasn't trying to imply that you were slinging mud at anyone. I apologize if any of what I said sounded like that.

What I was trying to say is that if they choose to contribute, that's great, but if not I sincerely hope you folks with the programming know how will carry on with this because so many of the shortcommings of the game have already been fixed and with talented programmers the sky's the limit.
I'm nearing completion of one set of animations I hope will make it into the next release after this one. It's a small contribution but; I'm afraid, very time consuming so it's all I've been working on for the last week or so. Once the other two sets are done and tested another cool feature should be available.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10732] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Considering neither of us are very good with graphics, I think that kind of contribution is definitely needed.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10733] Thu, 08 September 2005 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Hear, hear!

Anyone who wants to help out by providing graphics and animations is more than welcome, and your work will not go unappreciated.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10734] Thu, 08 September 2005 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
New version's up!

See page one of this thread for the feature list.

You will need to start a new game, as it's incompatible with existing save games.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10735] Thu, 08 September 2005 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
Kaiden: There is a distinction between a stand-alone mod like UC, and incremental improvements of the code base like what Mugsy has been doing. One is a one-off effort that gives you an entirely new campaign, the other is creating a base upon which future mods can be built, while at the same time preserving (and greatly enhancing) the original JA2 campaign. So it's not surprising that everyone hasn't quit whatever they have been doing and joined us here.

This project really should've been a continuation of the Whitehad project. Except that Whitehat died a lonely death a long time ago, and people that were in charge don't seem to be around any more. Nothing to do about it.

If you know someone who has the beta editor source code, have you tried asking for it? It works sometimes Smile
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10736] Thu, 08 September 2005 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:646
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Thanks for the new stuff. Can't wait to check it out!
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10737] Fri, 09 September 2005 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynxlynxlynx

 
Messages:90
Registered:September 2005
Location: Slovenija
Well, I'm not much of a classical coder and I don't really find much things in ja2 that bother me, so I doubt I will go hacking at the source.

But, I do have very good bash and sed (perl anyone?) abilities and love this kind of work. What I'm getting at is, if you ever need to change the data syntax, convert this to that and as long as it's plain text, I could help and willingly would. The tools I'd use aren't really portable, but that doesn't matter since it'd mostly be one time jobs. Once there is scalability regarding resolutions, translation improvements come to mind (length).

Thank you both for your efforts! I only recently found out ja2 was opensourced and since the whitehat thing is dead, you're the only hope left. :/

All these threads could be moved on to a new forum and the old whitehat stuff just stuffed into one more obscure.

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10738] Fri, 09 September 2005 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Aren't you up to 1.14 yet? Razz


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10739] Fri, 09 September 2005 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:442
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
yay easy weapon modifying Very Happy to bad i have to start over my game . but that's a price i'm willing to pay for all the new goodies Very Happy
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10740] Fri, 09 September 2005 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Interim, quick bug fix build released. Compatible with previous savegames. Just the exe's changed.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to change the build date. Oh, well. It's not sept 9th yet anyway.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10741] Fri, 09 September 2005 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
Madd: found a typo in statchange in weapon.cpp. I could just send you a corrected file if you like. Also the stat gain for HtH doesn't quite mirror the skill requirement - I don't know if that was intentional or not. If not, I can correct that too.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10742] Fri, 09 September 2005 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
No departure from your code was intentional. Please send the fixes to me or post them in the bugs thread, and I'll put 'em in. Thanks, Snap!


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10743] Sat, 10 September 2005 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Sent you an e-mail Mugsy, had some questions about the climbing code.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10744] Sat, 10 September 2005 02:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Kaiden,

Replied Smile Also noticed something else in the climbing code: I was referencing the wrong constant! Instead of AP_CLIMBROOF (10), I was using CLIMBUPROOF (32) from the animation states :bomb: Doh!

Now that I've fixed it, I think we can expect more enemies to climb up roofs and start shooting right away.

But I'm not sure how they were ever able to climb up before that, since they'd need 32 APs plus the APs to actually take a shot. They must've been in green status before climbing.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10745] Sat, 10 September 2005 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1829
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Doesn't the AI sometimes get 35 APs? I thoght I noticed this a few times by the ammount of running aroud and shooting they were doing. I don't have a problem with that (a freakin' machine needs some kind of advantage) but thought I'd ask.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10746] Sat, 10 September 2005 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
I don't think so. They should have the same number of APs as the mercs. (Except of course in Insane, where I gave them a 5pt bonus :diabolical: )


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10747] Sat, 10 September 2005 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
BTW, what are people's thoughts about the AI in the latest build?

I scaled it back a bit so less enemies would come looking for you when they heard/saw you. Are they too timid now? Or just right?

How's the suppression fire working out? And the extra elites in Insane?


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10748] Sat, 10 September 2005 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Ya know... I think I might take a few days off and actually play it to find out Razz


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10749] Sat, 10 September 2005 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Yeah, that'd be nice Wink Maybe I'll call in sick next week or something...


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10750] Sat, 10 September 2005 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
we could externalize that 5pt bonus too Razz and even offer one for every difficulty. Smile

Sorry I'm on a "Let me make a list of every single Constant in the game that's worth externalizing them and then order them by project and category" kick Razz


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10751] Sun, 11 September 2005 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Just released a new build to fix a couple of minor issues:

-bug spit from m-14, fn-fal and g3a3
-climbing crash/speed
-interrupt duel calculation

Source has been updated too.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10752] Mon, 12 September 2005 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Doh! I'd be finished with the Imp stuff today for sure lol. Did you change any of the laptop IMP files, or the video.h/video.cpp files?


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10753] Mon, 12 September 2005 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Nope Smile You can keep using your version of the source for now.

I'm going to release another bug fix version this morning to address the problem with laser scopes and suppression fire. But nothing IMP-related will have changed.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10754] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
Alrighty then, expect a zip of Imp code from me later today, maybe I can get it done in time for that second patch Smile


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10755] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
9.11.05 build released.

Fixes:

- non-integrated laser scope and sniper scope bonuses actually work
- Suppression fire toned down a bit. Enemies must now be able to actually see you themselves (not just have one of their buddies see you), and must have less than 10% chance of hitting.

Hopefully the suppression fire change will make it a bit easier. Let me know if the AI does weird things now though.

I haven't updated the source code yet though, as I'm anticipating a bigger release in the next couple days, once Kaiden has finished his new UB-style IMP generation screens.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10756] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
I was thinking... if we HAD the german source code, wasn't it released over there? Anyone? What would it take to get a german speaking modder involved to carry the work over there? Ja2 is big in Germany no?


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10757] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden

 
Messages:510
Registered:September 2003
DOH, stupid comment terminology had me all screwed up, I found the done button code and was correct about why it wouldn't show up. So... Now I have to debug my code, make sure I didn't break anything, make sure the skills get set correctly, make sure new imps get their UB calico, etc...


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10758] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:442
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
maybe scorpion can help with that.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10759] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1838
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
help with what? as far as i know, only the version 1.12 source is released, but AFAIK (and i`m not a coder)you can build a german exe no?

anyway, the 1.12 source is the source they work with in german modding community. the number of active coders that are not involved wiht individual projects seems to be very small though

they`d like to have a source that has muggsy`s bugfixes but not all of the new features. i don`t know much more than that

best person to contact in that respect is "BONECHUCKER". He`s big in networking, so he`s probably the better link to the german moding community than i am. he`s got better english skills and more knowledge of the code as well
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10760] Mon, 12 September 2005 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
Quote:
Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
- non-integrated laser scope and sniper scope bonuses actually work
D'oh! So that's what is was...

What did you change in InterruptDuel? I am currently trying to investigate how interrupts work... or don't. The agility stat change will have to be scrapped for now: it's not that it doesn't work, but because interrupt code is much messier than I had realised, it only works some of the time.

As for interrupt point calculation, I may want to tweak that some more to give more weight to experience, after all.

I haven't tested health stat change, but that will almost certainly have to be adjusted, since I pretty much picked a random number...

I'll check other new stat change code for copy mistakes.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10761] Mon, 12 September 2005 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:636
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
In InterruptDuel I just fixed my typing errors from your original code sample.


Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10762] Mon, 12 September 2005 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DurtyDan

 
Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA
health stat change seems to increase nicely in v9/9/05. After 45 days and level 6, my IMP merc rose from 90 to 95 health. Didn't try to work on it the usual way (overloading, travel then cancel order). Not entirely sure what causes the increases, even after reading Snap's thread.
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10763] Mon, 12 September 2005 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1829
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
OFF TOPIC


@Mugsy
Are you planning on releasing a new debug .exe? My current one still has the FAL Fires bug spit well...bug and I'm just wondering because this tool is helpful.
Next Topic: Bobby ray's selection
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sun Sep 22 02:52:57 EEST 2019

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02347 seconds