Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike
| 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11786]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 01:19 
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 Kaiden |
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Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
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I figure this may just need a whole new thread so here's what I want to know:
1. What options do you play with (Difficulty, Bobby Rays options, Enemy drops options, Sci-fi)
2. What Optional Features do you use (By optional features, I mean, Do you use the features that are On by default, but allow you to choose whether to use them or not) Examples would be the Delete all option, the Sell all option, multiple IMP mercs.
3. What do you think of the overall balance of the game and is there anything you would change to make it better for you?
4. What is your favorite Feature that you wouldn't live without?
5. Opposite of #4, what feature do you not like, or would like to change it's function slightly to better suite your playstyle.
6. In addition to #5 is there anything else you would change about 1.13 that can't easily be changed already in the XML files.
7. What are the most important bugs that you would want fixed ASAP ("All of them" is a valid answer, as well as "What bugs"  )
8. What feature (Including ones not listed in any current thread) would you like to see added more than anything else?
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11788]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 03:09 
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| Khor1255 |
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Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ |
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1)Expert, BR all, Drop All, Sci Fi (but I do more mod testing than actual playing)
2)Custom Multiple IMPs haven't tried the sell all option but it sounds cool.
3)Autofire is too accurate but other than that balance seems just about perfect.
4)Things I love: EXPANDED NO NONSENSE MODDABILITY, vastly improved ai, everything you've done with the IMP selection, everything about the item changes (I consider autofire a game engine change), in short, every single change that has been made except...
5)Am I losing my mind or are the enemy pain sounds when they get hit all different now? On my computer they sound all wrong. I like the old ones better.
6)Of course I'd like to see even more moddability perhaps starting with quests but the Beta Editor is a very close second. Fixing autofire to tone it down a bit is a major general concern. It's way too accurate and makes single shot fire useless at even moderate distance.
7) I really don't see many new bugs just sometimes turns seem to take longer like the computer is spending more time making decisions but I can deal with it for all the fabulous changes that have been made.
8)Crew served or even stationary heavy weapons would be great. But just cleaning up the code would also be a leap foreward.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11789]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 03:48
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Quote:
5)Am I losing my mind or are the enemy pain sounds when they get hit all different now? On my computer they sound all wrong. I like the old ones better.
You're losing your mind 
If/when I get a chance I prefer:
1) Insane/BR All/Drop All/Sci Fi
2) One IMP, but I may try more. I think it'd be cool if we could change their outfits so they don't all have white shirts and black pants. Maybe match them to their portraits. 90210 code is a must.
3) The new Alt-LMB sell option is probably a little too high at 25%. 10% might be better. I think if we reduce autofire accuracy, we should also reduce the number of APs needed.
4) The AI. Good luck surviving on the roofs in Insane nowadays without a level 10 merc with major agility (so he can get those interrupts). As soon as they get up there, they can take a shot. (I lost poor Grunty this way once, when a redshirt climbed up and went full-auto on him from 4 tiles away -- read the full story, and add your own, here: 1.13 war stories )
5) The AI. We still need to tweak it a bit. I saw one guy climb on to the roof and walk over to the middle beside my merc without firing a shot. Easy kill.
6) See 5.
7) Pffft. There aren't any bugs anymore, are there?
 More items. More weapons. More armour. I'm probably going to start tackling some of this pretty soon, since it shouldn't take too much time to do. The hardest part is going to be trying to figure out what all the guns are in the other mods and pics people have sent me.
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11790]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 04:31
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| Kaiden |
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Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
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1. I am currently playing Insane, BR-All, Drop-ALL, Sci-Fi
2. All of them (I gotta test ya know...)
3. Haven't gotten far enough to experience balance or unbalance, the AI is definitely tougher, BUT I was able to purchase my 6th IMP merc with the proceeds from 2 battles fought and Alt-LMB, which needs to be restricted to town sectors if it isn't already (didn't test that part).
4. Being able to choose my Imp's Traits of course. But I'm Biased 
5. I'd up the cost of things in the Bobby Ray - Sell everything option. A price to pay for a better selection. But only increase the Sell price on the Awsome (and possibly excellent) options.
6. Agree with MM, still some "issues" to work out in the AI, While the enemy has Definitely gone through better training lately, they still do some very stupid "waste AP" type things.
7. The AP loss for grenades, the Leadership skill not capable of being set to 0, Breath bug, and the Throwing Knives. Simply because they are most likely to affect more people, and because 3 of them are fixed
8. Vehicle Inventory and externalized options.
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11794]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 12:48
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| DurtyDan |
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Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA |
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My 2 cents:
1. Expert, awesome b-ray, non-sci-fi
2. multiple IMPs (I use 6) with 90210, so I can have each with a different shirt color
3. Balance seems fine, and flexible enough for everyone to tweak to their heart's content.
4. I love the new AI. Sometimes it can be boneheaded, but it is much improved.
5. none
6. (a)more guns, like the high end ones introduced in the last couple of years.
(b) Is someone already working on a map/quest mod for this great platform?
(c) How about more than 6 IMP mercs? I know the voices are a show-stopper now, but so much as been changed already, maybe this can be altered too. Maybe raise the generation cost to appease those concerned about balance. I wouldn't care if some voices were repeated with different MERCs, or we/I could chip in and record more (I would need some help sound editing)
(d) Why not bring the mercs from UB over to MERC? This has already been done at least once by others, veangence mod i think. Can this be done without replacing Biff, Flo, etc?
7. no bugs seem too bad, but is there a way to stop the hangups with stopwatch cursor when telling mercs to do some things? This happens sometimes when standing up next to a building, stealing, and so on. Not repeatable, either.
8. stationary emplacements, more useful fire support (why does line of sight have to matter to a mortar round????).
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Sergeant
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11795]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 12:53
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| dextertt |
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Messages:54
Registered:November 2000 |
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Kaiden,
1. What options do you play with (Difficulty, Bobby Rays options, Enemy drops options, Sci-fi)
Expert, BR All, Enemy drops All, Sci-fi
2. What Optional Features do you use (By optional features, I mean, Do you use the features that are On by default, but allow you to choose whether to use them or not) Examples would be the Delete all option, the Sell all option, multiple IMP mercs.
Sell all
3. What do you think of the overall balance of the game and is there anything you would change to make it better for you?
So far only taken two cities, game still challenging. My concern was in the original game, the game gets very easy once you control all the mines, have tons of money.
4. What is your favorite Feature that you wouldn't live without?
Increase sighting range.
5. Opposite of #4, what feature do you not like, or would like to change it's function slightly to better suite your playstyle.
6. In addition to #5 is there anything else you would change about 1.13 that can't easily be changed already in the XML files.
Sighting range
7. What are the most important bugs that you would want fixed ASAP ("All of them" is a valid answer, as well as "What bugs" [Razz] )
If you accidentially shoot or grenade militia they should not turn hostile on your mercs. somewhat of a bug.
8. What feature (Including ones not listed in any current thread) would you like to see added more than anything else?
Increase sighting range, again.
I remember discussing about increasing the sighting range with Madd Mugsy and the concensus was 1.5x the sighting range. I think this is important because with all the long range sniper rifles available, spoting is very crititical. I read through MM changelist.txt and do not see if MM did made the change.
Madd Mugsy, can the sighting range be increase to 1.5x ?
Thanks both Madd Mugsy and Kaiden for working on the code. It is one heck of a game that we will unlikely see made commercially again.
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Corporal
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11797]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 13:01
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| PoliceLT |
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Messages:31
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia, Melbourne |
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1. I play on Expert, Normal drops, Bobby Rays the same on Sci-Fi mode.
2. I don't use any of the new optional features, I never seen a use for the destroy/sell buttons, I found a use for the chance-to-hit calculator and I feel that the IMP characters should only be 1.
Infact, I believe the IMP character is supposed to be yourself, not clones of yourself.
3. I don't see too much of a problem, it is rather hard to go play the game Splinter Cell style like I usually play, but I guess it's an excuse to play team-based.
4. I seriously have no idea. I figured out how to side-step ingame a few days ago, I found that extremely useful. Also, improved moddability.
5. People going up buildings for no reason. I don't really care about this feature too much, but I'm kind of aggrivated by having to clear out 5 people ontop of a building. Especially since they're usually black shirts
6. Not that I know of.
7. Not sure yet. I guess how the OICW has a strange looking grenade launcher is one, but that'd be it.
8. I demand 800x600. That's kinda a no brainer
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11801]
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Sat, 17 September 2005 14:16
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Quote:
(d) Why not bring the mercs from UB over to MERC? This has already been done at least once by others, veangence mod i think. Can this be done without replacing Biff, Flo, etc?
It's on the list of things to get to eventually.
Quote:
7. no bugs seem too bad, but is there a way to stop the hangups with stopwatch cursor when telling mercs to do some things? This happens sometimes when standing up next to a building, stealing, and so on. Not repeatable, either
This happens in 1.12 and earlier too. I decreased the lockup time, so it shouldn't be quite as long in 1.13. You can also try pressing Ctrl+Enter to make it go away. I forget if this requires the cheat mode to be enabled or not. We should disable that requirement if it's there.
Quote:
Madd Mugsy, can the sighting range be increase to 1.5x ?
I don't know if you saw my posts about this in ht e main thread, but I tried doing this and it through the whole game out of whack. What happened was the AI (not the flanking AI, that I had under control) wouldn't know what to do when it could see you from that far away, but not have any cover nearby or a decent shot to take. It would just run back and forth like some decaptitated chicken.
However, it IS possible to configure items to increase your sighting range. There's a tag in items.xml - VisionRangeBonus - that applies to all types of vision. Setting this to 13 or so, should effectively increase the visual range by 13 tiles when that item is used. This can be applied to ANY item that can be held or worn by the mercs / enemies. (For guns, the bonus is only applicable when the gun is raised in ready position) So this means, it's possible to create binoculars and stuff.
You could also just apply the bonus to, say, armoured vests (since everyone needs to be wearing those anyway), and effectively increase the sighting range by 1.5. Just don't be surprised if/when the enemy decides to do the chicken dance.
Quote:
5. People going up buildings for no reason. I don't really care about this feature too much, but I'm kind of aggrivated by having to clear out 5 people ontop of a building. Especially since they're usually black shirts
Hey wouldn't you go hide up in a tree (roof) if there were scary mercs after you?
Seriously, it's because of the cover value. It IS a good place to hide.
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7. Not sure yet. I guess how the OICW has a strange looking grenade launcher is one, but that'd be it.
Make us a better pic, and we'll fix it.
Quote:
enemy soldiers are all living on roofs like cats, try getting them off there without getting killed...
They're not quite as bad anymore. They don't start off on the roofs nearly as often. They do seem to like to go hide up there though. (meow)
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11803]
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Sun, 18 September 2005 04:15
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| gmonk |
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Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada |
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1. Expert, BR's 'good', Drop all
2. Sell all, delete all
3. Balance is good, the enemy is pretty tough on Expert and they use grenades, breaklights, snipers and flanking attacks.
4. Drop all. If I were playing without it on Expert I'd have a much harder time equipping a team properly early in the game.
5. Losing all APs when standing to throw a grenade and spotting an enemy.
6. Not sure yet.
7. If the breath bug, the tile redraw bug, and most of the CTD bugs are all fixed I can't really think of anything else right now.
8. Being able to throw a grenade for shorter ranges while crouching and prone. 3 ranges depending on stance.
Have friendly planted mines/boobytraps automatically placed with a blue flag but still triggerable by enemies.
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First Sergeant
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11810]
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Wed, 21 September 2005 23:37
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| Kaiden |
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Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
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BR's inventory goes up as you progress through the game. The Ammo values and related gun values are probably out of whack just a little, which may explain why you have better ammo than guns. Also, because of all the guns, there are some smaller weapons that use the higher calibre ammo, so that might also be a factor.
On a completely different note, While I was testing the INI code during Militia battles on INSANE, I noticed a HUGE difference in Auto-fire. I think this is MUCH more balanced now Mugsy. I've never seen so much wasted ammo in all my time of playing JA2.
Keep in mind though, that the penalty is relative, when a burst is fired, 1-3 out of 6 shots will typically hit someone. With Auto-fire and approximately 10-15 shots, I was noticing 3-6 bullets hitting on average. So Auto-Fire did not lose it's advantage.
But this makes me wonder about burst... With a weapon capable of Auto-Fire, I felt myself reluctant to use Burst at all, same penalty, fewer shots, I thought to myself, this weapon doesn't even need Burst, I can't think of a single advantage to using it over Auto-Fire.
Thoughts, Comments? Any Advantages to Burst I don't know about, or Disadvantages to Auto-Fire that I don't know about?
(I'm not even thinking about removing it, just balancing it a little if it needs it).
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11815]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 03:20
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| Kaiden |
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Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
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Should be relatively simple in theory, One Merc will be the "Leader" And he will have to be selected. Then there will have to be a key combination or something to set a flag for moving in formation. When you move the "Leader Merc" The other merc's Gridno's in relation to the leader's will have to be stored in an array, and recalculated at the same ratio to the new location. Then instead of giving one move order and a target gridNo, there would be up to 6 orders to move and 6 targeted gridnos.
The code is already there to move all 6 mercs at one time to a single GridNo, complete with pathing code and everything, it will even stop all 6 mercs if one of them is interrupted.
Keep in mind though, if this were to be implemented, mercs would still suffer from pathing issues like going through a choke-point. When you send all 6 mercs through a choke-point, the last few try to go the longway around because the path is blocked.
Also if buildings get in the way, Mercs would temporarily break formation to go around obstacles, but then would still head to the same previously computed destination GridNo.
I mean the code is ALL there to support this kind of thing, it's just a matter of taking the time to implement it and making sure that it doesn't break something else in the process. As well as working out the complex math involved in recalculating multiple target GridNo's.
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11817]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 05:13
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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one little concern from my side: i had an elite attack in the latest version, and they tended to waste most of their AP`s for missing their entire full auto spray on some of my merc or militia. in single shot mode, they were as lethal as always
is there a way of preventing the AI to go full auto against enemies on the roof or in places where accurate aiming would be better?
it seems to me, they don`t hit much if firing full auto on a target on the roof. maybe that was the roof-bug problem though...
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11818]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 09:16
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| Snap |
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Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo... |
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Burst/autofire. From the realism point of view, most automatic guns don't even have a burst mode (newer H&K weapons being an exception). Moreover, the most common burst size is 3, which is not all that useful with current damage balance. I know that when I played JA2 "classic", I switched to 5-round burst weapons as soon as possible.
As far as game advantages of burst, I was thinking of making it faster, i.e. more bang for the AP, as it were. So, for instance, a 5-round burst could cost 3 or 4 APs, while full auto would cost 1 AP per round (5 APs for a 5-round burst). Problem is, we don't have that much choice here, so it would be difficult to distinguish different weapons, and even more difficult to do it at least somewhat realistically.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11819]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 09:34
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| Kaiden |
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Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
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I like the less accuracy per bullet, or cause another accuracy hit after 4 bullets for auto-fire.
So with either, you get the accuracy penalty after the first shot (except for G11's and other modified weapons with the fastburst flag)
Then, if you are using autofire, after the 4th bullet, accuracy takes another hit.
So for the weapons with a 3+ burst option, if that's all you want is a few shots, fine. otherwise, use full Auto, take the chance of using up all your ammo, and suffer a second accuracy penalty.
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11820]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 09:46
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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hmm yes
the problem is, that ja2 used to use "burst" fire to resemble full auto depending on AP and turns and stuff
now with full-auto added, what are you going to do with burst fire mode?
modern weapons usually have both, 3-shot burst and full auto, but most of the oder ja2 guns wouldn`t
if we go for realism, the burst option might suffer as most oder weapons don`t even have it
on the other hand, giving a 5-shot burst to a weapon is a big advantage over a 3 shot. somehow it becomes a bit weird... *confused*
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11823]
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Thu, 22 September 2005 10:11
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Training (Autoweapon skill verses non) aside, isn't controllability dependent on its own laundry list of factors: size of cartridge, mechanism, ergonomics, line of recoil in relation with shoulder, etc... Burst fire modes/limiters seem to me at least, to be an optional component, independent of controllability in full auto. (Ok, I suppose there are examples of weapons families where later variants have limiter/burst options put in place if those in power decide full auto is simply too difficult to handle.)
Speaking as someone who not only is not a programmer, but has also never fired a firearm, might I suggest an independent
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and some unique weapons , that can be build perhaps. 
