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A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21111] Wed, 15 March 2006 13:10 Go to next message
Scottybrown100

 
Messages:203
Registered:December 2003
Location: Michigan, USA

I wonder in what ways we could make Jagged Alliance more realistic... as in:
If it where to take place in real life, what game factors would be 'out', and what real life factors would take their place?

For instance... an 18 man mercenary unit could not take over a country... but an 18 man mercenary unit could provide enough leadership and initiative to moblize the rebel forces into a fighting force capable of winning a war.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21112] Wed, 15 March 2006 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toan

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2006
Location: United Kingdom
I've always wondered why nobody thought of having an option to take a squad or two of militia to bring with you in invasions of some sectors...
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21113] Wed, 15 March 2006 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scottybrown100

 
Messages:203
Registered:December 2003
Location: Michigan, USA

I think thats because militia fights take SO long... think about it, if you where to give an order to militia (because I don't think you should be able to control them directly), you might not see that they are actually carrying it out until about three turns later...

But if they could somehow incorporate militia in attacks, I think it would be an awesome new edge to the game!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21114] Thu, 16 March 2006 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
public1983

 
Messages:127
Registered:February 2006

More soldiers on an accordingly bigger tactical map would boost realism for sure. The trouble comes when you need to load the maps and wait for the AI-scripts to be carried out. Maybe the engine could be optimized, but I doubt it is capable of great enhancements. :whoknows: The whole turn based movement sets limits for the time optimization. When twenty soldiers run kindly one after another, it just takes a little time... :walking:

Putting great ideas in a game mostly takes you to reduce scale and put big events into small symbolization. The idea of Jagged Alliance is really great. The symbols bring it about, when you let it in.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21115] Thu, 16 March 2006 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Someone Here

 
Messages:20
Registered:May 2003
Location: Illinois
The thing is adding all those people would make battles long. Sure, some people might enjoy that, but not everyone would.

To be more realistic, there shouldnt be any of the people flying back. Sure, it looks cool, but it doesnt happen in real life (thank you mythbusters)...

Weather, but that has already been mentioned somewhere on this forum...

Some type of random factors, like someone getting sick or someone breaks a leg travelling thru a sector. That would kind of be realistic, but not really all that desirable.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21116] Thu, 16 March 2006 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scottybrown100

 
Messages:203
Registered:December 2003
Location: Michigan, USA

I think it would be cool to just for once have a really realistic Jagged Alliance... of course as its already been stated not EVERYONE wants that, in fact only a small minority would enjoy this... so the odds of it happening in a mod is slim to none.

Leg breaks, sickness, AWOL's, MIA's, ordinance explosions... he he he
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21117] Thu, 16 March 2006 09:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Someone Here

 
Messages:20
Registered:May 2003
Location: Illinois
Spies, army units you cannot see on the map coming at you.

Sneak attacks from the enemy would be interesting.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21118] Thu, 16 March 2006 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scottybrown100

 
Messages:203
Registered:December 2003
Location: Michigan, USA

Opourtunities to set up ambushes and for the enemy to ambush you...
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21119] Tue, 21 March 2006 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ma Rung

 
Messages:18
Registered:March 2006
Location: Australia mate, on top no...
The queen states it quite well 'A little band of guns for hire.' From what I've read the AI is getting a major overhaul and militia will be able to roam the whole map. Whether it will please everyone is again another matter entirely. I wanted direct control of them but it will never happen.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21120] Mon, 10 April 2006 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1774
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Sniper rifles that have penalties at short distance.
Sniper rifles that increase your line of sight.
Sniper rifles that take a whole turn just to aim or draw. (In the real world, we call these by the strange name "Sniper Rifles").
Sniper rifle scopes that make the sniper far more detectable by enemies (scope flash).

Automatic weapons that heat up.
Fully-Automatic weapons that aren't likely to hit a single shot over 50 squares, no matter how accurate you are.
Automatic weapons that don't fire single shots at all.
Damaged weapons that explode in your face.

Grenades that don't cause you to bleed when they hit you in the chest (before they explode, that is), or on a helmeted head.
Grenades that pop open unexpectedly on drawing.
Grenades that "cook off".
40mm grenades that explode on impact.

Helmets that are also gas-resistant.

Mercs that come cheap and are continutously replaceable, or "veteran militia" turning into useable generic mercs.

Buildings with two storeys.

And of course,
Bullets that kill people.

Grenades that kill people.

Explosives that kill people.

Enough of all that "injury" crap.


Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21121] Mon, 10 April 2006 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scottybrown100

 
Messages:203
Registered:December 2003
Location: Michigan, USA

I think that MERC should be the company to supply these "Generic" mercenaries... basically the 'bar mercs', you know the people that 'style themselves as merc's but only shit in their pants when the bullets fly.'
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21122] Wed, 24 May 2006 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Well hello, I'm quite new at this website, I like it though, and I think it's great that this game although... somewhat... old is still being discussed, I can't wait to see what Jagged Alliance 3 & 3D will be like, I hope the work on graphics won't take the fun away. JA2 is pretty much the only game I REALLY craved, even when I finished it! It's like playing Rainbow Six 3, Tabletop... Smile So sorry for the long intro... let's get on with new Ideas!

1.I think MANY MANY more guns could be added.

2.A TRUE line of sight.

3.The ennemy should patrol more realistically (how to explain? hum... give it a slight Commandos [the game] touch wouldn't be bad).

4.Maybe Superficial, but being able to change the color of clothing they wear... Camo and etc... and make that affect how much they can be spotted)

5.Having Sentry Towers would be mroe fun than the 'ever-getting-boring' roof-tops, wouldn't be bad.... to my opinion that is.

6.Distance should affect the amount of damage a bullet inflicts.

7.Take the tanks away, yes they add a slight challenge, but they look stupid... A tank that doesn't move... never got that one!

8.The bug/aliens defenitly need a good surgeon!HA!

9.Mercennaries should get real good bonuses when they work with one they like... And when they really dislike another, they should even be able to go rogue...

10.SHUT ME UP!

PS- Sorry if I'd of mentioned an already existing idea...
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21123] Wed, 24 May 2006 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1837
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
4 you can do using proedit or a programme to edit the ja2 palette directly

5 i have done this in some occasions in ja2 vengeance. The point is that if the player occupies sandbagged sentry towers, the AI has no chance to ever get it back

so they will be rare in any occasion

point 1 is covered quite nicely in 1.13 mod...

welcome do the forum!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21124] Thu, 25 May 2006 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LegacyOfApathy

 
Messages:101
Registered:September 2004

My dearest friends.. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if I wanted a really realistic experience. I'd join the army Mad

Eliminating all the better armour might help. etc. Nothing better than kevlar and\or guardian vests. Make em wear steel helmets and flak jackets!


And whilst it sounds retro-gressive... JA1 had enough guns for me XD (I mean, its got a pistol with a sniper scope, a M16, a shotgun or two, and hand grenades).

One of the things that is unrealistic, but fun, is your mercinaries amazing regeneration rate! After treating your wounds and takeing a day or two off, your characters are fully healed. They can regenerate in a week what some people might require months or years...

Ahh, and the legendary regeneration boosters can have you back up in seconds!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21125] Thu, 25 May 2006 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Hi again, Was jsut wondering... since I am not the most experienced at moding and the such, I've already tried Urban Chaos... But Does Vengeance work with ANY version of the game? Does it work fine with JA2 Gold? How about Wildfire? Do mods, like Urban Chaos work if I only have Wildfire?

Thanks ahead of time for any help!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21126] Thu, 25 May 2006 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1837
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
if you only have wildfire i will get tricky. my advice is to try and grab a copy of ja2 or ja2 gold at ebay or wherever it can still be obtained

in the "other user created campaigns" forum is a thread that gives advice on how to make english ja2 version work with vengeance. I guess for other mods there are similar threads

@legacy of apathy

no, you`re probably not the only one. When it comes to ja2 weapons, any kind of opinion is around, certainly including to keep it simple.

i am sure there will be edits to the upcoming 1.13 weapon availability that will be looking to simplify
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21127] Thu, 25 May 2006 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AKA_Firebomb

 
Messages:7
Registered:February 2005
Location: Michigan
I would love to see an option either on the option screen or in an .ini to set the weapon selection for the current campaign. US Military, European, Modern, WW2, Russian... since there will be so many guns in the next release I'd like to be able to play through a campaign with a certain theme, then again with a different one.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21128] Thu, 01 June 2006 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
That is a very swell idea!

Also, to make the game a little harder, for example, if you'd kill a guy with a grenade or a rocket laucher... it should destroy whatever he had on him... And seeing how JA2 is always set in small 3rd world-like countries, there should be more WW2 weapons mixed in with the newer ones, Being able to train militial with different kind of weapons might be nice too. thats it for now!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21129] Tue, 06 June 2006 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Black_Razor

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2002
Location: Karachi,Pakistan
1- A spy category for mercs would be very interesting. You could sent your spy in an enemy controlled sector, unarmed and unarmoured. He could then scout the sector and also eliminate secluded enemies with a knife, lethal injection, concealed silenced weapon or simply by hand. The likelihood of his real identity being disclosed would depend on his spy skill and/or his persuasion ability.

2- I also thought about being able to assign Malitia to dig up trenches, building guard towers and setting up barbwire fences and sandbags. You should be able to tell Malitia where exactly to set up these constructs.

3- Having more than one story buildings is definitely a lot more realistic.

4- Non-Flat terrain. Ever notice how much flat the world of JA is? Having proper depressions and elevation in terrain can add a whole new dimension to the gameplay.

Thinking more.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21130] Tue, 06 June 2006 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1774
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Razor:
2- I also thought about being able to assign Militia to dig up trenches, building guard towers and setting up barbwire fences and sandbags.
Nice idea, I like it. SAM sites already have their defences, but other militia sectors, like towns, seldom do. However two issues:

A) Much like enemies, militia are currently very stupid. They wouldn't know how to use the defenses to their advantage.

B) I don't think you should be able to tell them what and where to build. It should be an overlay to the map matrix, that is built by whoever made the sector map. That way you can control the player from going wild with the defenses and blocking paths or breaking the map some other way. Still, this would be a mean b1tch to implement.


Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21131] Thu, 08 June 2006 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Hum, it isn't bad actually, the problem is that it might take away from the game... turn it into red alert! We wouldn't want that now, would we? (no disrespect meant for Red Alert, a Classic).
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21132] Thu, 08 June 2006 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1837
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i`ll be making maps with bunkers and sentry towers

we`ll see in playtesting if AI can handle it...
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21133] Thu, 08 June 2006 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1774
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Well for one I'm not afraid of this game ever turning into "red alert" because of the fundamental difference in gameplay, themes, interface, focus, pretty much everything. In my book, I wouldn't even mind running a full armor battallion if we could make it run under JA2 rules and regulations, and integrate it with the aspects that make JA2 so much fun. Think about it, say the map was made into 50x50 sectors, but at the same time you would facilitate the player not having so much responsibility for the strategic elements as they do now (I.E. being able to delegate authority to the program, whereever they wish). This would make the game more complex, or rather, open up greater options for more intense and captivating scenarios, without actually making the player focus more on the strategy part, that is, if they don't care to focus more on the strategy part Wink
This is part of advancing the game into higher levels. Ideally, no one would be "forced" into using any of such radical alterations, they should be kept optional but available, and I have no doubt that modders would be able to make use of some of these radical things, and make excellent stuff with it.


Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21134] Sat, 10 June 2006 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Hum, yes I see! Actualyl I change my mind, after you're description! It wouldn't be that bad... It would be nice, but also think about how long it might take fro the computer to play.. if it had battalions! I find sometimes the computers turn is very slow... Imagine with such an amount of units!
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21135] Sat, 17 June 2006 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3853
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
would tasers work?, mebbe by cops in towns as peacekeepin tool , instant knockout with writhing bodies fallin about ( or do i watch too much tv) :scary:


Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21136] Sun, 18 June 2006 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Black_Razor

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2002
Location: Karachi,Pakistan
5- Squads moving in formations while in real time mode. It's always pain in the ass when all your squad tries to sit in a single tile and consequently loses the chance to interrupt when your most experienced merc should be the point man.

6- Specific targeting resulting in: Disarming, Blinding, crippling, unconsciousness...

7- Shooting while moving.

8- True full automatic burstfire; already well implemented in v1.13 mod.

9- Spending more than 1 turn(s) just aiming, ala S2.

10- Worn armor apear on characters.

11- Refillable canteens. No big deal, but still adds realism.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21137] Sun, 18 June 2006 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Black_Razor

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2002
Location: Karachi,Pakistan
12- Deadfalls floored with spikes. Again, malitia can be assigned to dig that up.

13- APCs, IFVs, Tanks, other vehicles all of which drivable on the tactical view e.g during a battle.

14- The possibility to airdrop the squad in an enemy controlled sector, providing it's airspace is safe.
Re: A more realistic Jagged Alliance 2[message #21138] Thu, 22 June 2006 11:19 Go to previous message
Heil3451
Messages:3
Registered:June 2006
Don't focus so much on throwing hundreds of varieties of guns and gear at the player, a pitfal too many mods fall into already. The differences between most are completely negligible and players only use the best ones anyways. Devote that progamming time instead to improving gameplay and forcing you to use realistic tactics to defeat the enemy.
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