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Martial arts[message #28983] Thu, 08 June 2006 21:34 Go to next message
Aikicin
Messages:3
Registered:June 2006
Location: London
Hey I was wondering, I got merc skilled in martial arts (from IMP) and to be honest i don't see the difference in hand to hand combat efficiency between any other mercs save for funny stance...
what i am saying is martial artist should be lethal (neck twisting, bone breaking etc) and not just beat the stamina out of enemy

(currently i am playing UC but i think its rather global JA concern)

whats your opinion?
Re: Martial arts[message #28984] Thu, 08 June 2006 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NocturnalCarnivore

 
Messages:35
Registered:April 2006
If you want to kill an enemy, use a weapon. Martial artists are excellent at disabling an enemy and stealing their gun. They are much more efficient at that than any other mercs, even hand-to-hand specialists, because they have much increased accuracy as well as damage. Additionally, their special stupid-looking roundhouse head-kick does double damage and can often severely wound or even kill enemies. And they're better at evading blows from fists or knives if the enemy fights back.

I like to give my martial artist(s) a knife so that after they knock the baddie out and steal his gun, they can slit his throat. Or just sneak up from behind and stealth-kill him with the knife if he doesn't look like he has a good gun. Or, after the throat is slit, cut the head off and place it on the corpse's chest as a "signature", to let the enemy know who did it and why they should be pissing their pants.
Re: Martial arts[message #28985] Fri, 09 June 2006 03:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LegacyOfApathy

 
Messages:101
Registered:September 2004

@ NocturnalCarnivore

Agreed.

Dr.Q, my favorite character, and the closest thing JA2 currently has to a ninja, is lethal even when he's unarmed.

*Loves his black pajamas.*

(Costs a completely unholy amount of money at later levels, at least in my games Mad)


Martial artists do seem to be a lot more adept at yanking the enemies guns right out of their hands than normal folks.


I killed lots of people in JA2, DL, Vietnam SOG and other mods with martial arts. They work best when you are able to sneak up and suprise an enemy. Just like in MGS3 with Naked Snake.
Re: Martial arts[message #28986] Fri, 09 June 2006 19:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
"Martial artists do seem to be a lot more adept at yanking the enemies guns right out of their hands[...]"
Has me thinking of Trinity grabbing a SPAS in the Matrix lobby scene.
(ghe I've created an IMP once that had AMBI/MA)

I thought that to create a martial-arts IMP the strenght should be below 60(?).
I know that damage from punches also depends on strenght.

So a level 1 IMP cannot give a better blow than Bull, but in time...

-Load him up with too heavy equipment (weight carried: 200%)
-Issue a movement order on the map-screen.
-Cancel the order by right-clicking in the destination collumn.
-repeat and watch strength&health skyrocket.
Re: Martial arts[message #28987] Fri, 09 June 2006 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CCKeane

 
Messages:98
Registered:September 2004
Location: Hoboken/Long Island

Bull is still my man in hand to hand combat.

After he dropped a guy in one punch, I was sold.
Re: Martial arts[message #28988] Sat, 10 June 2006 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Quote:
-Load him up with too heavy equipment (weight carried: 200%)
-Issue a movement order on the map-screen.
-Cancel the order by right-clicking in the destination collumn.
-repeat and watch strength&health skyrocket. [/QB]
Isn't that a bit like cheating? It kinda ruins some part of the game, no?
Re: Martial arts[message #28989] Sun, 11 June 2006 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
Yes it's cheating: improvement without really earning it.
Still, it could argued that there's no report of this in the game-history-log Wink
Plus it's a way to increase strenght on those mercs that refuse to abuse cows.
It would be really CHEATING if I created an IMP with 10 health and strength...

I want a merc that's able to wear body-armour and still be able to carry a gun+ammo.
My Neo-character(MA/Ambi) couldn't carry two MAC's. He'd have some 14AP's to spend and he'd pass out after a few steps, or when he got wounded.
"I mean how can he be the one, if he's dead." Wink

But except for bypassing on 'improvising' / 'making use of what you've got', I don't think it ruins the game.

The part where I can get a MartialArts-IMP if and only if he's a weakling does IMO make for one less perfect part of an otherwise great game.
(With 16-bit graphics and medieval system req.s this game still rocks. MOD-makers bless them)
Re: Martial arts[message #28990] Sun, 11 June 2006 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LegacyOfApathy

 
Messages:101
Registered:September 2004

IMP: Dracula

LVL:1

AGI: 85
DEX: 85
STR: 70
LDR: 35
WIS: 85
MKR: 70
EXP: 0
MEC: 0
MED: 35

Expert Martial Arts

I would hardly call someone with those kinds of stats a wimp!

***

Until just recently, Unfinished Business was all I had. But, I had SOG'69 to keep me company, and it was cool.

My parents bought one of those strategy first collections. I don't feel the need to elaborate on it.


I know that traveling whilst overloaded trick worked on some version I used to have, but it dosen't anymore. However. Since I can usually get at least one capable IMP. And I have strong if irrational feelings for a lot of AIM and MERC. Low stats aren't that much of a problem.

***

Loading your characters up to 600% + weight and doing that movement order cancel works quite well in SOG. The first time I played though the game, I think I just did it with Dr.Q. Close to the end of the campaign Mad

Ironically, most light machine guns are quite heavy. I wanted him to be able to utilize those RPKs he had been "liberating" for the team.

(The amazingly heavy C-rations work wonders for this purpose)

Thats how I turned Flo into Mega FLO. Who made sure that people who dispised me died in a very explosive way.

***

I've a strong likeing for Bull too. That fat, ugly man, whom if I were to say anything suggestive around, would probably turn me into a grease stain.

He could carry a huge ammount of cake Aka rations, and not break a sweat.

I normally use him as my heavy weapons dude. He can certainly carry all the required equipment easily.

Sure, he maybe a little slow. Okay . A lot slow sometimes. But he only needs to get off one shot. (Those scrawny wimps find the tanks and mobs).

Ah yeah. And he likes to break necks.

Somehow, having high agility and dex with him just dosen't feel right Razz
Re: Martial arts[message #28991] Sun, 11 June 2006 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
"Mega FLO", I like the sound of that.
Re: Martial arts[message #28992] Wed, 21 June 2006 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Misteret

 
Messages:31
Registered:July 2005
Mega Flo vs Ultra Gumpy III-The final encounter. If that isn't movie potential, i don't know what is
Re: Martial arts[message #28993] Sat, 08 July 2006 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aikicin
Messages:3
Registered:June 2006
Location: London
thanks guys:)
so using martal artist with knife is useful, how about knife throwing?
Re: Martial arts[message #28994] Sun, 09 July 2006 05:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lucas

 
Messages:311
Registered:June 2006
Location: Londrina, PR, Brazil
Knife throwing is a very amusing and deadly way to score a instant kill in the hands of specialists. For this task, Knifing/Throwing skills must be considered as well DEX, STR and MRK. Good choices are: Blood, Hitman, Carlos, Dimitri, Sidney, Razor and Scully. Oh ya, use them only at night so you can get close enough to throw a knife and the enemy facing seems to have some influence: apparently when you throw a knife on a enemy facing your knife thrower you get more instant kills than throwing it on the enemy's headback, Woody Razz
Re: Martial arts[message #28995] Thu, 13 July 2006 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
public1983

 
Messages:127
Registered:February 2006

@Aikicin: Your idea about deadly martial arts is nice. :ok: This could be easily included in a mod, I think. Though, I am not a modder. It would be something like a random instant kill when attacking the head/neck with a matrial arts guy. This would be realistic and it would make the skill useful for the late game. I do not think the effect on balance would be a problem.
Re: Martial arts[message #201827] Mon, 17 November 2008 06:29 Go to previous message
Snake Plissken

 
Messages:38
Registered:December 2001
Yeah, I can confirm that, at least in 1.13, martial artists are better at disarming standing opponents (you can actually do this in real life, though good luck getting close enough). You can even rob them blind and clear out their inventory (that part isn't so realistic) sometimes Smile

At the very least, martial arts should do more damage against a KOed opponent, similar to knives but not quite as effective.

I have to admit that the benefits of MA and HTH are not too pronounced in JA2. Often it's a difference of one hit to wind an opponent vs. untrained mercs with good physical stats.
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