Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » UC/DL 1.13 & AFS » Alrulco Folding Stock Discussion & Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)
| Alrulco Folding Stock Discussion & Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #288547]
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Sat, 06 August 2011 18:31 
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Starting with Alrulco Folding Stock v3.00 please report any suspected Bugs for the mod here. Thank you.
EDIT: my misadventures with thread management continues, since most discussion about Alrulco Folding Stock is occurring here, I closed down the Discussion thread and moved it here (sort of).
[Updated on: Tue, 09 August 2011 01:17] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #288690]
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Tue, 09 August 2011 02:21 
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Inside IMPItemChoices.XML you have to set number of choices and number of items, but behaviour is different depending on which "skill" they pertain to. For instance under the old Marksmanship skill, the number of choices seemed to define increments, and number of items only defined how many of the item associated with the specific increment your IMP's Mrks' fell under you received.
Since there are no "increments" of Expert Marksmanship, this is a straight random assignment, three guns defined as selections 1-3, one item selected from them.
Incidentally, selection of just one level of the New Major Traits will give you a 50/50 chance of receiving an attachment, as a null entry (item 0) is valid as well. In this case, number of choices = 2, but only one of the two selections has a real item.
EDIT: further clarification
Yes, the MP5k is a result of the old Marksmanship selection list/process. Each of the selections is independent of one another. It is necessary to still use the old Marksmanship selection due to: 1) not everyone plays with New Traits, 2) not everyone is going to double a New Major Trait.
[Updated on: Tue, 09 August 2011 02:38] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290252]
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Fri, 02 September 2011 18:44
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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I probably forgot to setup the mergers. It is a long weekend over here so, I think I can find the time to release another version. May even have time to introduce a new FSS scheme, I seemed to have figured out a way to make aiming reduced NCTH accuracy.
Also, AFS is probably the best venue to introduce the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl - somehow Mexico is producing the most advance in-service weapon found in my mods (trying to cut down overall accuracy otherwise that 3 round burst with recoil delay destroys balancing). A fun idea would be to replace the rocket rifles with it...
EDIT: Long Arm Folding Stock System (FSS) NCTH Informed Adjustments
"Percent Cap / Aiming Cap Modifier" didn't work as expected (See Here ) but the following did:
Percent Base = 30 (was 0)
Flat Aim = -15 (was -5)
Accuracy Modifier = 0 (was-5)
Percent Max CF = -20 (was -40)
Percent CF Accuracy =-20 (was -20)
Next will be considering how to use recently gathered information on how NCTH works to improve the FSS for Machine Pistols and PDW's.
Compared to when the stock is deployed, the no aiming clicks (snapshot) the weapon is slightly more accurate*** than its copy with the stock deployed (no NCTH modification). Max aim (4 aiming clicks) gives only marginally better than no aim clicks, and significantly worse than the copy with stock. In the test case, a UMP with no grip or other attachments, the folded stock UMP had worse accuracy on max aim (4/4) than the aiming level before it (3/4). Basically this means that you'll only be able to hit anything with the stock folded if they are very close, and aiming is largely irrelevant (and even counter-productive).
***Accurate being defined in NCTH terms by the size of the targeting cursor, smaller radius = more accurate
[Updated on: Fri, 02 September 2011 20:40] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290576]
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Sun, 11 September 2011 17:10
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 knightofni |
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Messages:96
Registered:August 2011 |
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Hi Wil,
I've been playing with AFS for the past few days. Overall, i like it very much, especially the NCTH related improvements [scope-less rifles usable, handguns not godly weapons]
A couple of comments / suggestions : (Note : I'm still in the early AR era)
1. It seems the mod make quite a lot of changes that are not documented. I guess it's the part that comes from UC. I'm not thinking about new weapons (that was expected), but :
x Ammo boxes (very practical)
x Standardized equipment for Queen army (again, very cool, feels like fighting an organized force)
x Slower item progression (good again. Normal game we tend to 'jump' from handguns to AR a bit too fast)
I just wanted to confirm that these changes were indeed coming from AFS. If they do, i suggest you to advertise them in the FAQ post, for the sake of completeness (and well, they are good reasons to use the mod)
2. Killing the factory manager in Drassen (forgot the name) drops a very cool sniper rifle (Colt C7 something) all equipped with 4X scope & suppressor. Is that intended ? I feel the weapon is too cool for the time you get it. And then it's just weird to discover such a great weapon on a factory manager (that doesn't even use it !)
3. The mod is not intended to be played with "Drop all", might add a note about that. (just my feeling)
4. For noobs like me, it might be good to state which JA2options.ini to modify when using AFS(in Data AFS ? Data 1.13 ?). It's not easy to know / check.
5. Cleaning kit : might add an in-game description on how to use it. I managed to attach it, but then couldn't find how to use it. Finally found in the forum, but well, i guess that shouldn't be necessary.
Thanks for your work!
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290606]
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Mon, 12 September 2011 05:22
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Thank you, I confused mine manager (stock campaign) with factory manager (Urban Chaos total conversion). In the the stock campaign there should only be one factory manager NPC of any kind, and it's Doreen, all the others are mine managers. Still Doreen shouldn't be armed in Alrulco, found and fixed the bug.
The German prime vendor submod actually has the widest range of guns, everything except for in-game shotguns, though I used HK's reselling of the FP6 to cover that gap. I've always though of the MP7 as a later mid-game gun by virtue of all the rifles that should be available at the same game progress. I'm seeing it at progress 7 for the MP (one hand) version, and progress 8 for the PDW (two hand) version. Technically the PDW variant should have the better hit rate (both OCTH and NCTH), but the dual wielding probably more than makes up for that. I could flip them around, the first MP7 would still be at progress 7, but the enemy won't be dual wielding them till 8.
[Updated on: Mon, 12 September 2011 06:04] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290615]
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Mon, 12 September 2011 18:05
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| knightofni |
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Messages:96
Registered:August 2011 |
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New batch of feedback :
Enfield L22a2
The description suggests it's a reliable weapon.
Actually it's the shittiest weapon i've ever had, degrading very fast (Reliability -5, repair ease -3). I guess one should be updated.
Btw, did you change anything about the jamming process ? I thought wpns coulndt jam before 85% reliability. I had a case at 89% (with that enfield gun)
NCTH
- Fox doesnt rule the battlefield anymore, but she's still very good (mayhaps a bit too much).
- Really like the way scopes add to the number of aiming clicks, it feels right. It's more noticeable than before.
- I managed to actually kill things with a Winchester !! Before it used to hit around 10-20% of the time at range 15, the most disappointing weapon i've ever had. Now it's ok, it hits around 50% of the time in proper conditions (standing target, range 20)
- Burst / Autofire has been significantly nerfed. At first i thought it was too much. After a dozen of hours of play i think it's OK (for SMG at least). I find myself still using autofire quite often, which means it's a useful enough.
- One annoyance of NCTH is still present : the fact that Mercs tend to fire in the ground, especially when crouching / prone. I guess you know that it can be changed trough the CTH_constants.ini file (VERTICAL_BIAS = 0.33 instead of default 0.5). Would you consider distributing AFS with a modded CTH_constants.ini ? That would make some sort of "one stop mod" to correct NTCH
Folding stock
First game i didnt use it much. I got SKS rifles pretty soon, and essentially stopped using SMG's except for close range emergencies (so always folded)
Second game i'm using it more (managed to find a repair kit early), it's quite useful on those small SMGs.
Note : I have no idea if it's realistic or not. Gameplay wise it's neat. I just hope you can tweak the green stars, as mentionned in another thread.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290619]
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Mon, 12 September 2011 19:52
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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L22A2 - poor stats probably due to my over generalization that the shorter the barrel the less reliable it gets. This is why the most reliable of the family is the L86 LSW. I'll standardize them all to the reliability stats of the L86 LSW. The loss of reliability with reduction from HBAR -> standard rifle -> carbine -> SBR is a carry over from the AR-15's, though with the L22/L85/L86 being of a different mechanism I can justify Reliability / Repair Ease being standardized to -3 / -3.
NCTH Aiming Levels - just wait till the new patch and Fox gets her hands on a pair of PAR-68's. The only change I did to pistols is breaking with the low number of aiming-levels, good to know such a simple change is having such a big effect.
Similarly, I moved the aiming level difference between sniper rifles and other rifles from the weapon to the scope. This was also necessary as I allow scopes on any weapon you can conceivably fit one on.
Folding Stock System (FSS) - Now Knightofni, or anyone else for that matter, is the Long Arm FSS getting any use? Unlike the machine pistols FSS, which you are describing, folding the stock of a long arm drops AP costs, bumps up the accuracy of an un-aimed shot, but also effectively makes extra aiming useless.
EDIT: Thanks, no I wasn't aware of VERTICAL_BIAS = 0.33 reducing those ugly looking drop shots. While annoying, I haven't had time to look into it, and just thought it was a game engine limit on the portrayal of shooting short.
[Updated on: Mon, 12 September 2011 20:02] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290691]
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Wed, 14 September 2011 12:05
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| knightofni |
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Messages:96
Registered:August 2011 |
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[All played with AFS 3.3]
Additional Feedback (Big wall of text alert). Now in mid AR-era, got my first "real" sniper gun.
x Long Arm FSS
Tried it once (on a Bison SMG) and on the mini AK-74 (aks-74 u). To be honest i don't think it's so useful ingame. It's so inaccurate (once folded) that the weapon is not useful at a range of over 3-4 tiles (being generous). At this range i'd rather use my sidearm : AP costs are much lower, moreover AP's are needed to fold the SMG, but unnecessary to equip my sidearm. So the only reason to use it would be to run out of ammo of the sidearm... Not that common...
Overall, my intuition is that the implementation is fine as is, but thwarted because of game mechanics (no AP to equip handgun). I can't imagine a simple solution to this.
x Attachments
I love the attachment system from UC, but a couple of details are infuriating. Mostly revolves around attachments that you can buy, but can't find any weapon to attach them.
- Some attachments arrive in shops very early, and you have to wait too long before using them. Suggestion : make them appear later.
APP (laser sight available from beginning, took me 3 weeks to find a compatible HK weapon)
SUSAT / Clamp on Mag 4x (available very early, pretty long to find a weapon)
M3 IR Night sighting device (still looking for a weapon. Really a shame, because i can already find weapons for the Thales NV - a much better scope)
- Then there are all these "Advanced Reflex Sight" compatible attachments, that i've been collecting (Magnifying 2x, 4x, NV). I guess i have to attach them on an other component, which I've never been able to find.
Note : I'm only talking about attachments available for sales at Bobby's / Tony's.
x Weapons & Items
Chang Feng SMG :
- The gap in performance between the Chang Feng (Almost as good as an AR. Similar to a Steyr AUG Para / Colt SMG in feeling) and what you have before (crappy SMG's) is just too big. I guess it just appears too soon. Maybe increase its coolness level by one ?
- I was surprised that Steel & titanium plates have identical characteristics (except weight, 1.5 vs 2 kg). Save 0.5 kg ?? Yawn... It makes titanium plates quite a disappointing item.
- Minor but annoying : 7.62x25 smg : same pic for AP and Ball ammo
x Shotguns
- I've tried to use them after reading you did some changes (in the effect of aim clicks if I'm not mistaken). Overall, it's better, but still not good enough. My IMP is a ranger, it tried to use a shotgun in a night op, reasoning that short ranges should help the weapon (a Saiga, no attachements). He DID manage to kill an enemy and wound another, but overall, shooting cost is too high, and damage too unreliable. Most of the time could fire only one round / turn. I identify 2 major problems with shotguns
a. High, but unreliable damage : Ok, damage says 40-45 in the UDB. But quite often you'll do 10-15 only, and as it's not easy to fire more than one shell, if you do only 10-15 dmg and your ennemy has any type of automatic weapon, you're dead meat (because shotgun engagement ranges are so short)
b. AP to ready cost is too high, which prevents you from moving, making your MERC either a sitting duck or a guy that cant shoot
- Moreover, this change in aim clicks has some side effects on the HK Caws (accurate + scope 1.5x). At night, with Maddog (no NVG), i was able to have a good chance of headshot (very green cursor) on ennemies appearing into range. Now i haven't tested more (no more ammo...), but it seems a tad too powerful.
Suggestion : Make this aim click change a bit less strong, reduce (20 - 25% ?) the AP to ready cost
x Ammo timing
Some ammo types are not available early enough for purchase. I know it's part of the game, but somehow i felt it was more pronounced here. I'm especially thinking of "Skills" weapons (those weapons we get for free as a result of skill choice). I got a winchester .44 mag, which is a pretty cool weapon - but far from outstanding. By the time i could buy .44 mag rounds, the weapon was totally obsolete. And well, it's not as if .44 mag weapons were super powerful : they're fund they're cool, but that's about it.
[One or two other ammo type were this way, but failed to note them down]
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290706]
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Wed, 14 September 2011 20:40
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Quick answers:
FSS Shotguns - just from memory SPAS-12, SPAS-15, and Striker. The thing is, use of the FSS is often not a good idea, see below:
Shotgun Accuracy - I didn't give them the +10 NCTH Cap bonus till v3.40.
Shotgun AP Costs - adhering to the principle that Shots/4Turns includes recovery from the shot, shotguns tend to have low S/4T (high single shot AP cost). Attachments like the reflex sights (such as the Kobra for the Saiga) lower aiming costs. Due to the adapter, most shotguns will accept a Reflex Sight, and many will accept the Advance Reflex Sight.
Long Arm FSS - sounds about right. Another theoretical use would be to lower the AP cost of suppression fire from some of the lower end mercs - not expecting them to hit anyways, might as well increase the amount of lead in the air. Of note, the current NCTH Long Arm FSS is actually a "Plan B." "Plan A" has similar results, except the aiming levels actually make sense (they progressively increase accuracy instead of the last one being less accurate than 2nd last level). Plan A however requires the anticipated NCTH fix (soon). Now that I'm comfortable with different methods to limit NCTH max accuracy, should I bump up the snap shot bonus (no aiming levels or minimum accuracy of the weapon)?
Advanced Reflex Sight - something doesn't sound right, presuming normal item availability, the ARS attachments to the Advanced Reflex Sight shouldn't be appearing that early. The Advanced Reflex Sight (acts as the base to mount the ARS magnifiers) shouldn't be available till late game. I'll have to check later.
Oldie Sights/Scopes - availability is meant to coincide with older weapons which generally only appear as used items in BR's. Even with BR inventory set to "Awesome" these guns only seem to appear one at a time.
- - The SUSAT appears early as a replacement item for missing default attachments (in Urban Chaos) caused by the difficulties I've run into with the Map Editor. Recently the SUSAT was added to the FN FNC's attachment list, so bought SUSAT scopes have an additional purpose other than being a workaround for a NAS related bug.
- - M3 IR Night sighting device fits M1 Garrand and M1 Carbines (possibly suffering from the BR used inventory issue)
Chang Feng SMG - its essentially a copy of the Calico, except it can mount sights and scopes, I'll move it to one coolness level ahead of the Calico.
Ammo Availability - yeah, one of these days I've got to sit down and actually chart out when weapons for each calibre appear.
"real" sniper gun - not knowing any better in the first game I finished, I stuck with the first Ruger-14 found all the way to the end.
[Updated on: Wed, 14 September 2011 21:27] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290771]
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Fri, 16 September 2011 20:09
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Advance Reflex Sights and its addons - yes, I've confirmed that the coolness values are wrong.
Heavy / Integral Bipods - Both in principle give the same effect as the normal bipod when prone. However the intention still is to use the Heavy Bipod to signify when a weapon will be more accurate when prone (and more or less unusable for other stances). In future, NCTH's stance based modifiers will be exploited more to "encourage" use in the proper stance.
MG3 RIS? - where would it go? Find me proof (not airsoft fantasies) and I'll see what I can do.
EDIT: Scopes with Queens forces:
- governed by coolness values, I suppose the percentage of elites can be modified
- due to the FSS, the attachment drop percentage must be set to 100%, more scopes on dropped guns would probably be counter-productive as you're mercs would be swimming in optics even quicker
- I wonder if there is an AI cheat in the INI's, perhaps something that sets their minimum Magnification factor to 2x when there is no scope present, but then there would probably be complaints of the AI cheating, as this blatantly is.
[Updated on: Fri, 16 September 2011 20:14] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290777]
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Sat, 17 September 2011 00:07
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Hairysteed
You can just add the RIS scope mount in the available attachment list. No need to create yet another optics rail attachment just for the Mg3
Yes, thank you Hairysteed, that was the proof needed. Using the Scope Mount RIS on non scope mount guns has been done before, and it will be done to the MG3 as well.
Stsepura
a) I've examined TableData\Items.xml and discovered that AKS-74 with unfolded stock (uiIndex=1035) has size 6, the same as AKS-74 (<) (uiIndex=1036) with folded stock. And AK-74 (uiIndex=1033), which must have the same size as AKS-74 with unfolded stock, has size 7. Similar things happen with AKMS, AKS-74U, SVDS. (Folded/unfolded stock does not alter the size.)
I'm going to have to include this one in the FAQ's - Items size is only relevant to storage in-game, therefore I decided to give all FSS guns the smaller sizes to prevent excess micromanagement. AP costs, accuracy (both OCTH and NCTH) are different by the state of the stock.
Stsepura
b) Weapons like SVD, AKSU-74, AKM, AK-74 appear in the list twice. However this seems to be done deliberately.
Yes. In general all guns below item index 350 are copies for map compatibility and should not be available for purchase (though they can be sold. If you find one, you can tell by the attachment slot in the upper right hand corner - clicking a Tool Kit into this (or any attachment slot) will convert the item to the "normal" occurrence of the weapon, (item index 1000+). Also copies that use the FSS will convert to the main range of item indexes when the stock mode is toggled.
[Updated on: Sat, 17 September 2011 00:14] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Alrulco Folding Stock Bug Reports - (2011/08/06 - 20--/--/--)[message #290786]
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Sat, 17 September 2011 17:09
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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HazapuzaThought I'd mention the same issue Mister_Evil_Cat brought up in the Arulco Folding Stock thread. With Atremo, Port Kip, Calisto, Sheraton and Galileo captured, I already got many of my mercs fitted with the ACOG/Reflex Sight combo and other high-end stuff, mostly due to Smithy's good selection. During daytime battles, the enemy seldom stands a chance, since they usually don't get a chance to see my troops. The attachments they drop are really scarce, and usually consist of only flash suppressors or muzzle brakes, plus the default ones.
I'm playing with Experienced and Drop All off, so if the difficulty level still has an effect on the item progression (since we have a separate setting for that), that might explain some of this. IMO, something should still be done about the attachment balance.
Also, since I'm not up to date with the 1.13 development, I'd like to know if the enemy AI still uses scopes only when shooting. It's been a rather long time since I played something else than UC1.13.
Thought, I'd move discussions on this back here (though UC-1.13 has its own particular balance issues due to the in-country gun shops). Here are a few ideas:
- "cheat" face gear for AI forces that gives a visual range bonus as well as a 2x Scope Mag factor, does not drop (problem is nothing to stop a player from mugging the AI for it)
- Drop the range bonus from scopes below 6x magnification, not certain if the AI "knows" how to use a scope equipped weapon to spot your mercs
- increase MAX_ENEMY_ATTACHMENT, right now it should be at default 6
- increase the percentage of enemies converted to elites for difficulty levels, right now it is 0, 25, and 50 for Experienced, Expert and Insane
Just looking through the INI and from what I know of the XML's, the player does have a lot of bonuses. Of course I recognize that I myself have been part of the problem (see my feature requests).
I forgot, does the game start option of "Progress Speed of Item Choices" affect BR's, enemy gear selection, or both?
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Wish there was a kb shortcut to aim, would make life a lot easier.
