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How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155033] Thu, 30 August 2007 10:42 Go to next message
Wounded Ronin is currently offline Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:75
Registered:August 2006
I've decided that I don't want throwing the bolt on a rifle or working the pump on a shotgun to cost ~6 APs. Is there a way I can reduce the AP cost through the XML files? I'm sorry if this question has already been answered; I tried a search but did not find anything.

Thanks again for everyone's patience and help. Smile

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Corporal
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155034] Thu, 30 August 2007 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:762
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Look for in weapons.xml. You'll have to do it for each gun separately.

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First Sergeant

Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155183] Fri, 31 August 2007 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin is currently offline Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:75
Registered:August 2006
Thanks for the tip!

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Corporal
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155216] Fri, 31 August 2007 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
E4MC is currently offline E4MC

 
Messages:6
Registered:August 2007
Location: Arizona, USA
I felt the same way. The time and effort it takes to manipulate the bolt, lever, or pump, on a firearm to load a new round into the chamber is so small, it shouldn't cost more than 1 AP; it probably really shouldn't cost anything when you compare it to what is involved with reloading a weapon. Reloading a detachable magazine fed weapon involves manipulating the magazine release mechanism to drop the empty magazine, then reaching and opening the flap of the magazine pouch, then grasping a full magazine and yanking it out of the pouch, then inserting the magazine into the weapon's magazine well and slapping the butt of the magazine to make certain it is firmly seated, then manipulating the bolt release mechanism to release the bolt so it strips the top round out of the magazine and chambers it; all of this for around 5 or so AP. Reloading a non-detachable magazine
firearm usually involves removing individual rounds of ammo from whatever container they are in and, one at-a-time, loading the rounds into the firearm's integral magazine, then pushing the bolt forward to strip a round out of the magazine and load the chamber; this can be extremely slow when compared to detachable magazine fed weapons. Some non-detachable magazine firearms such as the M1 Garand use pre-loaded stripper clips to load the firearm's integral magazine, making this process much faster. Nevertheless, I notice that some weapons in this mod cost more to manpulate the bolt, lever, pump, etc., than they do to actually reload the weapons magazines, and I'm trying to correct it on my game.

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Private
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155256] Fri, 31 August 2007 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:762
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Yes, the reloading of empty guns needs a re-design, most reload-AP values should go up a bit.

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First Sergeant

Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155272] Fri, 31 August 2007 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JaM1977 is currently offline JaM1977

 
Messages:35
Registered:May 2007
I agree, but we need to model combined magazines - most of new plastic magazines has that feature - you can connect two or three magazines together, then just turn around and load new immediately. That kind of action should be faster than taking a new magazine from a pocket.

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Private 1st Class
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155273] Fri, 31 August 2007 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:762
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
The only way this can be modeled at this time is via a gun attachment that reduces the reload-AP.
And with only four attachment slots most people would not bother attaching this one.
This may change if we are able to make a new attachment system (see thread elsewhere).

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First Sergeant

Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155765] Wed, 05 September 2007 02:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin is currently offline Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:75
Registered:August 2006
Interesting stuff. Yeah, I was talking to an Army vet from the late 60s who told me he did that taping trick with his M14 mags to speed up reloading.

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Corporal
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #155887] Wed, 05 September 2007 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
Using a windows wordprocessor you could replace the high-cost ones.

replace 7
with 3

number 3 is arbitrary.
It will save you some time.

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Master Sergeant
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #303716] Sat, 21 April 2012 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lord Nyghthawk is currently offline Lord Nyghthawk

 
Messages:13
Registered:April 2012
I know this topic is kind of old, but I felt I had to post my 2 cents. There should be no reason to lower the AP's for working a bolt/pump action weapon. The argument for doing so is entirely invalid, as the comparing the reload times of auto/semi-auto weapons (mainly clip-fed) to the working of bolt/pumps is in FAVOUR of the latter. Compare 7 AP's for doing so, to the minimum of 20 (and some assault rifles have 28 or more required), to work their re-loading mechanisms.
And even comparing the full reload AP cost of those weapons show them to be more favourable than reloading a clip. Personally, I would make tube & other non-clip fed weapons cost waaaay more in AP's to reload, considering it takes considerably more time to reload, say, a typical shotgun, than it does to pop in a new clip, and pop the slide, or rack the bolt on an automatic.
I have real-world experience with the most common types of firearms (except pump action, never used one of those, as they are typically only on shotguns, and I really don't care for those), and I can tell you, that in the time it takes someone to reload even 1 round in a non-clip fed weapon, with the possible exception of putting only one round in a bolt-action type-firearm to immediately fire that round, by the time you have that round in the internal mag, someone using a clip fed weapon could have already gotten done with reloading and shot you twice, maybe more. (That's why clip fed weapons are usually the rule in military weaponry, as well as ease of use.)

[Updated on: Sat, 21 April 2012 13:48] by Moderator

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Private
Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #303729] Sat, 21 April 2012 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3679
Registered:July 2009
Hello LordNyghthawk, Welcome to the Pit :wave:
Not only is this topic old as hell, it's so old it predates the 100 AP system. All the values given here are normed on 25 AP max and I trust the users involved to compare 2 values and come to the right conclusion, leading to the more accurate relation we have now.

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Captain

Re: How can I reduce APs for throwing bolts and pumping pumps?[message #304109] Tue, 01 May 2012 05:20 Go to previous message
Lord Nyghthawk is currently offline Lord Nyghthawk

 
Messages:13
Registered:April 2012
Hail DepressiveBrot. Thanks for the reply. Just saw that thread, and HAD to put my 2 cents in, lol.Most of the figures for action points in the version of 1.13 I downloaded I pretty much agree with, although I did change the AP costs for working backpack zippers (lowered it), some AP costs differences of actions while wearing a pack (eliminated the differences, as IMO, doing something with or w/o a pack is really no different in speed), and right now, reworking the coolness levels of ammunitions. Granted those things probably apply to different threads, but I figured I'd kind of lump them together. Also changed the costs of training militia (raised), daily costs of militia( raised), and eliminated the daily cost difference of mobile militias, although changed it so you start of training only groups of 5 mobiles, and start off like the rest of militias, with green only. (Played one game with the default settings, and the all elite mobiles made things waaaaay to easy).

Now getting ready on changing the coolness factors of various weapons & accessories, and then thinking of making Mk II and III upgrades for the extended ears, and maybe holographic/binocular upgrades to the shades for that slightly sci-fi feeling to the game.

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Private
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