Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc
Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315316] Mon, 11 February 2013 20:53 Go to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
The subject line basically says it all. But some background info and explaining:

Personally I dislike drop mechanics that do not give all the equipment a character carried at the time of death. In JA2 however, drop all unbalances the game quite a bit. Especially when one also enabled the feature for Soldiers to always wear some armor. And yet that is exactly what I want to have enabled, considering we're dealing with military units here. As such, seeing them run around with .38 revolvers (or any kind of pistol as main armament)is just... Weird.

Same goes for Merc initial equipment (let's invade a country, engage the army and use a single pistol + 2 ammo clips for that) but that's another story (and will be brought up in a scenario change suggestion soon enough).

So I've been thinking off a way to make these settings viable without ruining balance (current game I have over $ 400.000 and enough weapons to make another 20 runs to Tony at least). Sure, one can choose not to sell them (or use ALT + Left for <10% or something) and/or simply destroy all items found this way but I was hoping for a more story driven solution. With Deidranna ruling Arulco and the army basically controlling every aspect getting equipment for militia would be difficult at best. So where did they get it from? And what better way to equip them than using the salvaged items from killed soldiers? Implementing some mechanics that would allow you to provide (give) equipment for your newly trained militia using whatever you scrounged up so far would be a nice idea in my opinion. It could also be a great feature to limit the amount of militia training one can do just like that (I've always found it way too easy to train large numbers of militia and yes I'm using all sort of changed settings to counter that. I also use story driven arguments: I only train Militia after liberating Alma for example).

One of the obvious cons would of course be the imbalance for those games where one is not using the 'drop all' setting. But this new way of militia equipping could simply be an optional setting as well.

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315318] Mon, 11 February 2013 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Not doable.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315319] Mon, 11 February 2013 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Nice idea, but not doable.

To be precise: Giving equipment to militia would require a way to give them stuff - which gets insanely boring if you want to equip every militia you have.

Most important: It is utterly pointless, as the entire militia gets re-rolled once you load a sector. Changing that would bloat savegames to insane proportions (need to add 64 * 1024 new soldier slots) and be a very huge amount of work.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315321] Mon, 11 February 2013 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
I see. That's unfortunate but if it's not doable or simply requires insane amounts of work then nothing can be done I suppose. But...

How about a simple mechanic that allows you to mark a certain amount of equipment as militia used, store this in some container and when militia is trained deduct the amount from that equipment pool?

Example: You have 10 flak jackets in a certain sector, stacked. Which you then mark as 'militia used' (or whatever you want to call it, not important). This type of armor information is stored somewhere (table?) and when militia is trained they will be equipped with the same type of armor (in this case flak jacket) and the pool is depleted (or lowered by a certain amount if No. equipment > No. militia trained).

With a re-roll of the sector loaded all you need is the last stored equipment type and equip militia with that. It would omit the need for giving equipment directly and it would omit the need to store each militia's individual equipment. You could specify some default behavior for when No. militia trained > equipment stored; Some default armor/weapon or perhaps even nothing. Is that doable?

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315323] Mon, 11 February 2013 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Yes, having some kind of 'armory' would be possible and nicely circumvents the excessive storage requirements for actual soldier.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315342] Tue, 12 February 2013 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
I like this idea. Sounds good!
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315344] Tue, 12 February 2013 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
Well the idea is based on some RPG games where you can invest gold/materials into improving the equipment of your 'stronghold' personnel (Dragon Age: Origins for example).

I always prefer having opponents drop all of their equipment and JA2 is no exeception for me, but it does create an imbalance I hope to (partially) get rid off this way. Especially when you also outfit the army with more appropriate equipment (always body armor, rifles/assault rifles as main armament, etc) than just a single .38 revolver, steel helmet and a porn magazine.

One idea is to create a 'button' next to the trashbin on the strategic view; You could drag and drop equipment there (right clicking and selecting items would be another option)and this way also would be able to see what is available there.

Plenty of smaller details to work out, for example whether or not stored equipment should be retrievable for your own use and how to handle 'updating' equipment but I would need to know the limits to the engine/code first anyway. And I'm open to suggestions as well of course.

Personally, I think 'forcing' the player to actively outfit their trained militia is a good thing. It always bugged me a bit they would receive their equipment out of nowhere but the last drop was a few days ago when one of the militia present got hit by an assassin (Kingpin) and dropped his weapon; When I picked it up it turned out to be one of those high power 100+ range sniper rifles. Where the hell would he have been able to obtain that?
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315348] Tue, 12 February 2013 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jpg

 
Messages:44
Registered:January 2009
Location: north of Paris, France
I think it would be interesting to use your loot to equip your militia, but it would be too much micro management to specifically give equipment to militiamen, if at all possible which I doubt.
I would rather think of a system where you can allocate items (mostly weapons, ammo and armor) from the inventory screen to your town militia, via a keyboard command similar to the sell and discard ones, earning you equipment points which enable you to build militia. Something like this:

- One pistol get you 1 point of green weapon
- One low/medium level (use coolness threshold) pm or shotgun gives you 2 points of green weapon
- One armor item (helmet, pants, vest) of low quality (flak and Kevlar
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315349] Tue, 12 February 2013 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
Well the use of the word 'give' in the initial post may have been a bit misleading, as I did not mean: 'To use the ingame give command to give each and every militia member his/her equipment one item at a time in Tactical mode'. That would have been tedious to the extreme...

I was thinking about outfitting them individually but that will not be possible. And perhaps a bridge too far in terms of micromanagement anyway. Creating a weapon/equipment storage area should be possible and a lot easier to manage.

Personally I prefer to have militia ranks defined by stats/skills/traits (and the amount of training) and not by what equipment they have but that's open to discussion. In my view, it should be possible to have Elite militia equipped only with flak jackets and pistols for example, if you did not provide them with better 'stuff' to use. What distinguishes them would be their stats, skills/traits and level and not their equipment. One option could be not to allow Green militia to use higher level weapons untill they've been trained to the next level (they simply lack the proficiencies to use these).
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315350] Tue, 12 February 2013 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Agreed, the quality of the militia should depend on training time and experience, not on the mall ninja score of their gear.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315356] Tue, 12 February 2013 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
+1 training should determine quality of militia (as used to).

Quite like the idea that instead of selling stuff to locals (aka alt+LMB selling) the things transfer into a "global pool of militia" like every pair of gun + armor adds one militia point (= one potential militia) to the pool.
The pool is not related to a certain area/sector/town to avoid having to haul the stuff across the map to equip militia in balime with stuff from chitzena or similar.

The pool determines how many militia can be on the whole map. If your pool e.g. counts 100 points (=potential militia[wo]men) you still cannot (by default) have more than 20 militia per sector. So you could train e.g. 60 militia in Drassen (the amount of training you invest determines if they stay green or are promoted to blue just as used to). Then it's up to player if one decides to invest the 40 remaining "militia points" into mobiles (we could e.g. double the cost in militia points for mobiles if we preferred) or save them to be able to recruit militia in another city or SAM site.

This way the whole thing could be handled in strategic view by just a keyboard shortcut and we just had to display a number somewhere in the GUI where we see fit. And we just had to count the numbers of guns and armor pieces[1] 'sold' each and deduct the amount of potential militia available.

[1] might need 2nd thoughts/discussion if we just count vests or vests and helmet seperately or if we need vest + helmet + pant for one single militia armor.

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315357] Tue, 12 February 2013 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Armor is a non-essential feature of typical militias Very Happy
It seems like as usual everyone is talking about something else, but the two basic lines here are:
1) Guns as an abstract resource, adding 'militia points' for each [collection of] x items yet otherwise leaving the situation largely unchanged.
-OR-
2) Maintaining an actual equipment pool from which militia is equipped for a battle, i.e. the closest we'll ever get to actual control over their equipment while still keeping files reasonable.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315358] Tue, 12 February 2013 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
I'm more in favor of 2). Don't like to replace one abstraction with another abstraction.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315360] Tue, 12 February 2013 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
As I would like to have "some" control on the militia's equipment, I opt for the second: a kind of armoury in every sector or group of sectors (in case of a city). Militia should drop their gear again when dead.

And as I prefer quality above quantity I would also prefer 5-10 blue militia above 10-20 green...
So maybe this could be also an option to work on. I think in-game this option could be covered in the question that you are asked when you can continue to train more men... Instead of a yes/no question it could become a different question:

"Spend $xxx to continue training or $xxx to upgrade militia?"
[Continue] - [Upgrade] - [Cancel]

[Updated on: Tue, 12 February 2013 20:53] by Moderator

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315363] Tue, 12 February 2013 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Concerning 1):
  • An abstract global resource 'harvested' from equipment by 'using it up' leads to the problem that you can use it everywhere instantly, which seems rather odd.
  • Militia gear not only depends on the individual class of the militiaman, but also on game progress, weapon progress, and distance to Meduna. How would the 'gear resource' address that?

Concerning 2)
  • A local storage per sector would have to be separated from normal sector inventory. There needs to be a sort-of second inventory.
  • Needs a functionality to move items to and from 'storage' to 'sector inventory'.
  • If we assume militia uses storage once the sector is loaded, exactly this gear has to be removed from them once the sector is unloaded. Thus we need to mark 'stored' gear.
  • What happens to standard militia gear that is replaced by storage gear?
  • Outdated gear could 'overwrite' more useful standard militia gear. How should that be handled?
  • Ammo is a problem. Either there is a need to store ammo as well - resulting in much bigger storage - or ammo magically appears on militia. This opens a new (though propably purely academic) exploit, where you can get expensive ammo by storing an empty gun, training militia, and then killing them for their ammo.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315365] Tue, 12 February 2013 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
I'd go the whole way and take all equipment from that storage, thus skirting all the 'return some stuff, but make sure to remember what' issues. Whenever there's a battle, guns are distributed and if there aren't enough boomsticks to go around, those guys simply stay home. Since we're talking mainly in the context of Drop All, there usually should be enough guns simply from liberating the city in the first place.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315366] Tue, 12 February 2013 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Flugente
Concerning 1):
  • An abstract global resource 'harvested' from equipment by 'using it up' leads to the problem that you can use it everywhere instantly, which seems rather odd.

IMHO no more odd than instantly creating money in your account by alt+selling, getting mags out of thin air or being able to turn cash into bank account in the middle of nowhere in arulco just to invest it at tony's the very same minute.
Sure, would be more realistic if we had to transport the things and put in a militia's hand to bring it to use.
The extreme of a global pool (could as well be a local pool per city or so) is to minimize additional micro management while having some reasonable sense in the whole thing like "i need to reserve some of the loot for militia if i want to have militia".
Quote:
  • Militia gear not only depends on the individual class of the militiaman, but also on game progress, weapon progress, and distance to Meduna. How would the 'gear resource' address that?

Not at all. As we are unable to store individual militia (that would be the ideal) it sticks with the militia is created when sector is loaded. It's to avoid the problems you list with 2) but still invent another (more or less limited) resource in addition to money.

So in a way 1) is the min solution whereas 2) is the max solution coming closest to equipping individual militia.

Very well possible that a majority's favourite is somewhere in between. Smile
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315368] Tue, 12 February 2013 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TBCoW

 
Messages:6
Registered:December 2012
Another solution to this could be making militia to pick up weapons at the beginning of the fight.

When militia is trained some random weapons based on current coolness are made (don't ask)
All militia while exploring a sector during peace are unarmed
When enemy attacks sector all weapons in the sector that are accessable are divided between militia when tactical screen is loading.

It could work however i see 2 problems:
There is a need to think of a formula that takes into account equipment coolness, stats of generated militia and their traits, division of ammo.
Second problem is introduction of class-divided gun choice which makes militia better than green stay with 'old' weapons
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315372] Wed, 13 February 2013 09:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jpg

 
Messages:44
Registered:January 2009
Location: north of Paris, France
There is another problem with this solution: some players may not like having militia use (and damage) some of their stocked weapons or, more important, use some rare ammunition, rockets or grenades carefully hoarded for the game end.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315373] Wed, 13 February 2013 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
DepressivesBrot
Armor is a non-essential feature of typical militias Very Happy
It seems like as usual everyone is talking about something else, but the two basic lines here are:
1) Guns as an abstract resource, adding 'militia points' for each [collection of] x items yet otherwise leaving the situation largely unchanged.
-OR-
2) Maintaining an actual equipment pool from which militia is equipped for a battle, i.e. the closest we'll ever get to actual control over their equipment while still keeping files reasonable.


It very much seems so. My initial (and much preferred) idea still is to have militia equipped with actual equipment salvaged and not to create some abstract pool from where items are generated based on points. But limitations of the game engine and amount of coding/work required are very important factors to consider of course. If creating a militia storage can be done, I'm all for it.

Following up one of your later posts; I actually like the idea of withholding militia who did not receive a weapon. And to add: Militia would be equipped with whatever is stored/available. No armor at all but still a gun? Then that poor bastard will go to battle wearing nothing more than an 'I love Fox Deidranna T-Shirt'...

jpg
There is another problem with this solution: some players may not like having militia use (and damage) some of their stocked weapons or, more important, use some rare ammunition, rockets or grenades carefully hoarded for the game end.


Which is why I opted for a storage feature; You add weapons for militia to a separate container. Their equipment is taken from that container while sector inventory is left untouched. Mostly. As militia sometimes pick up items from the ground during battle even now.

Flugente

Concerning 2)
  • A local storage per sector would have to be separated from normal sector inventory. There needs to be a sort-of second inventory.
  • Needs a functionality to move items to and from 'storage' to 'sector inventory'.
  • If we assume militia uses storage once the sector is loaded, exactly this gear has to be removed from them once the sector is unloaded. Thus we need to mark 'stored' gear.
  • What happens to standard militia gear that is replaced by storage gear?
  • Outdated gear could 'overwrite' more useful standard militia gear. How should that be handled?
  • Ammo is a problem. Either there is a need to store ammo as well - resulting in much bigger storage - or ammo magically appears on militia. This opens a new (though propably purely academic) exploit, where you can get expensive ammo by storing an empty gun, training militia, and then killing them for their ammo.


I've left out 1 as I simply prefer approach 2. Points 1, 2 and 3; Can this be done and how much effort would be involved?
Points 4 & 5; My preference > Militia has no standard gear. They get everything from that storage. But this may cause a huge imbalance between 'Drop all' on and off.
Point 6; Ammo would be needed as well. You couldn't just equip militia with all the fancy stuff but need to make a conscious choice based on available ammo. Most AR magazines can be stacked to 24 at the moment, 10 slots for 240 magazines would allow some 20-32 militia to hold out in a few battles I think.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2013 10:43] by Moderator

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315377] Wed, 13 February 2013 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
AliceInChains
Flugente
Concerning 2)
  • A local storage per sector would have to be separated from normal sector inventory. There needs to be a sort-of second inventory.
  • Needs a functionality to move items to and from 'storage' to 'sector inventory'.
  • If we assume militia uses storage once the sector is loaded, exactly this gear has to be removed from them once the sector is unloaded. Thus we need to mark 'stored' gear.
  • What happens to standard militia gear that is replaced by storage gear?
  • Outdated gear could 'overwrite' more useful standard militia gear. How should that be handled?
  • Ammo is a problem. Either there is a need to store ammo as well - resulting in much bigger storage - or ammo magically appears on militia. This opens a new (though propably purely academic) exploit, where you can get expensive ammo by storing an empty gun, training militia, and then killing them for their ammo.
I've left out 1 as I simply prefer approach 2. Points 1, 2 and 3; Can this be done and how much effort would be involved?
Points 4 & 5; My preference > Militia has no standard gear. They get everything from that storage. But this may cause a huge imbalance between 'Drop all' on and off.
Point 6; Ammo would be needed as well. You couldn't just equip militia with all the fancy stuff but need to make a conscious choice based on available ammo. Most AR magazines can be stacked to 24 at the moment, 10 slots for 240 magazines would allow some 20-32 militia to hold out in a few battles I think.
1,2,3 is theoretically doable, but requires a lot of overhead and largely redundant code. How about we simply 'tag' equipment and overlay it with, dunno, a green version of the ownership pattern? That way we'd also know what mobiles and reinforcements are allowed to take with them.
4,5 Since obviously we're talking about an optional feature, anyone activating it without drop all has to deal with it.
6 No real need to stack stuff, they can just take what they need from a crate.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315380] Wed, 13 February 2013 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
DepressivesBrot
How about we simply 'tag' equipment and overlay it with, dunno, a green version of the ownership pattern? That way we'd also know what mobiles and reinforcements are allowed to take with them.

This sounds like a very good and efficient idea to me. :ok:
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315382] Wed, 13 February 2013 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
We could have colored tags for equipment for each type of militia. Green, lt.blue, dark blue for each militia type and shortcut would cycle through them. Game would start equipping from vets to green militia. Vets would get dark blue gear, if not, lt. blue and finally green if nothing else is available. Regulars would get just lt blue and green if no lt blue is available while green militia would only get green tagged gear. That way you would get some sort of control on who gets what without extensive code changes.

I also think only militia that can be equipped should show up for a fight while rest stay home (this ain't Stalingrad Razz).
On top of that, training and equipping should be separate matters. Trained people, gear and weapons are all separate components and you need all three to make an effective combat force.
You could also add icons in sector inventory screen to sort items by militia usage, so that you only see militia used gear and/or only gear that is not used by militia.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315390] Wed, 13 February 2013 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The one solution I currently prefer is to equip militia entirely from storage. with a little twist: Use the current sector inventory itself as storage. Once a sector is unloaded, all gear on militia gets stored in the inventory again. This way militia stealing items would be no issue.

One problem is that militia then has access to everything that isn't on your mercs. Wouldn't be a problem for me, as I loot every sector anyway. Apart from the HQ sector... battles there would be bad Smile

Beauty of this would be that one can define the entire militia-equipment very easily: just dump it into the sector. It would also bring logistics to a whole new level, as oen can only have as many militia as guns, has to provide armour, repair gear, and occasionally update item selection. If a sector is not loaded tactically, one could still see all items in there, and replace them.

A significant problem with all storage-based approaches, however, remains: how to equip militia reinforcements, and how to equip mobile militia? While some ugly hacks could be made to load adjacent sector inventory for reinforcements and auto-equip them from there, this would be pointless for mobiles.

I'd thus advise to still equip mobiles as usual, but simply increase their training cost significantly. This could be justified by them having their own gear. If a mobile then enters a city, he'd bring his gear along. It would simply enter the item pool, and could still be used by him/others in the future.

Edit: Added bonus: if done right, the required interface could provide an easy way to later switch to a separate sector storage, should anyone later code something like that.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2013 21:18] by Moderator



Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315396] Wed, 13 February 2013 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
This should be combined with a check if there is a battle in the currently loaded sector (if possible). Otherwise the militia could equip the very things i wanted to sell to a merchant-NPC in this sector right now.

Maybe it would be possible to check the sector the trainer(s) of mobile militia are located in for gear to equip the mobiles with (like they take the coolest gear available as they are supposed to be the best ones)?
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315398] Wed, 13 February 2013 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Sam_Hotte
Maybe it would be possible to check the sector the trainer(s) of mobile militia are located in for gear to equip the mobiles with (like they take the coolest gear available as they are supposed to be the best ones)?


And this would help us how if the mobiles move on the map?


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315399] Wed, 13 February 2013 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
By taking their stuff with them to the next sector.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315400] Wed, 13 February 2013 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
It would make them use some of the real gear without needing to convert this gear into money beforehand (because this is what we have ATM and to my understanding the whole idea is trying to avoid this).
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315401] Wed, 13 February 2013 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Which is pointless for moving squads, unless parts of the inventory move along with them as Depri advised.

Which will be a bit tricky, but would be needed for my reinforcement handling idea.

Now, if we add the idea of restricting militia item access by colouring it in strategic inventory via a simple key command, and add a comfort 'militia drops everything in peace times on key press' command, we are done. Apart from coding everything.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 February 2013 22:59] by Moderator



Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315403] Wed, 13 February 2013 23:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
It wouldn't even be pointless in my book if the mobiles would later drop different stuff than having initially been equipped with. I would still have the thing "if i want x militia i need at least x guns to equip them".
If they could take the part of inventory they used with them somehow - even better. Smile
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315404] Wed, 13 February 2013 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
No, it would be utterly pointless unless the inventory changes sector along with the militia. As described in an earlier post, the militia soldiers get destroyed if they or you leave the sector. Unless we provide a way to get the inventory to move with them, your pretty gun collection will be lost forever.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315405] Wed, 13 February 2013 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
My assumption was that the mobiles would be treated as usual (thus being spawned and equipped in the current way when sector with them was loaded).
But that's academic: since we seem to have a way to store the initial equipment with reinforcements/mobiles that's for sure the better solution. Smile
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315425] Thu, 14 February 2013 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:710
Registered:July 2008
Maybe there should be a system like sell feature (alt-click). But instead of generating money it should generate Militia Points (a placeholder name). Distributing militia points on militia determines their item quality. Just an idea. Equipping militia seems too much of micromanagement tho i know many people love microing.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315460] Fri, 15 February 2013 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AliceInChains

 
Messages:16
Registered:January 2012
Gambigobilla
Maybe there should be a system like sell feature (alt-click). But instead of generating money it should generate Militia Points (a placeholder name). Distributing militia points on militia determines their item quality. Just an idea. Equipping militia seems too much of micromanagement tho i know many people love microing.


Some points system was suggested before already and I personally do not like it. I started this thread with the suggestion to give militia actual equipment available.

Using some abstract points system you may as well just sell everything using ALT + Left Click and have militia equipped as usual. This feature would not add anything then.

Using sector inventory items to equip militia from some storage point/unit/container is no more micromanagement than hauling it all over to Tony's in my opinion. Those that dislike doing those things will have the ALT selling divisor set to 1 most likely anyway and can simply opt not to use this feature if it will be implemented.

As Flugente suggested, use some kind of marking on sector inventory to check whether militia can use it or not and use that to outfit them when the need arrises. Works for me.

While I would like to see some real militia depot at some point it is a matter of gameplay improvement vs. time investment in the end. Once the framework is in place it would be easier to go from there anyway.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315462] Fri, 15 February 2013 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
AliceInChains
Using sector inventory items to equip militia from some storage point/unit/container is no more micromanagement than hauling it all over to Tony's in my opinion.

But in fact it is: Hauling things to Tony (or a few other merchants that may or may not be added as result of the 'more merchant' feature) means just bring everything there, drop it to sector inv and sell it once every 24h.
Whereas to equip militia with it you'd have to transport things to every place you want to train militia in - and this as some sort of constant routine if you want to improve gear of recruited militia as the campaign unfolds. And mark it in sector inv for militia's use.
(and hauling stuff also to merchants is still in as you still need money)

No, i am not criticising this; just telling.
As you said, interacting with militia needs micromanaging in this respect, so that's part of the whole idea. And whoever don't like this, doesn't use it.

But perhaps gambi has a point in that enabling everything of the new microing features (already done like 'food and water' or requested as this one here) might turn JA2 into 'transport tycoon' where everybody is busy doing logistics to keep mercs fed, militia equipped, guns repaired and POWs secure ... Wink

But still: Having the choice of using it or not is way better than having no choice, IMO. Smile
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315467] Fri, 15 February 2013 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Sam_Hotte
Whereas to equip militia with it you'd have to transport things to every place you want to train militia in - and this as some sort of constant routine if you want to improve gear of recruited militia as the campaign unfolds. And mark it in sector inv for militia's use.
(and hauling stuff also to merchants is still in as you still need money)
Places you want to train militia has a very high overlap with places you just killed a bunch of enemies. The stuff is already there.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315469] Fri, 15 February 2013 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
I'd like to add that although I don't like too much micromanagement I'd like this feature a lot. Actually I gave this a lot of thought even before this was posted. It's probably because I like just certain kind of micromanagement. For example, I spend hours sorting stuff I buy and acquire from enemy, preparing mercs long time before I actually go to action. However, I'll do that only for weapons/armor/misc gear that I actually use in combat. Micro management of clothes and food/drink is too much for me (although food system fits well with 'live of the land' type of gameplay which is whole different story and I'd like to use it sometimes).
I want to thank OP for making this request.
Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315479] Fri, 15 February 2013 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3479
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
To the surprise of absolutely nobody, I am currently working on this. With ideas developed here, in IRC and my twisted mind, we can a user-friendly way to fully equip militia.

However, a question to those who know the xml inside-out:

It will be necessary for me to transform ammo in sectors into ammo crates. While me and the rest of IRC are pretty sure every caliber has a crate, I want to make sure - So is that the case? Does every ingame caliber/ammotype combination have a crate item? Please answer if you know, not if you're 'kinda sure'.


Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315568] Tue, 19 February 2013 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
Why not stick to the weapons and the armor? Will become pretty expensive if militia fire all your expensive ammo and there will be many without any after a few turns... How will you divide the ammo, etc? After all, it's the bit of ammo in most cases that you looted yourself... and they won't handle it economically witty like a player does.

What happens if there are a few attacks? Everybody will be out of ammo rather than with... Enemies also don't run out of ammo, right?

[Updated on: Tue, 19 February 2013 00:08] by Moderator

Re: Feature Request: Equiping Militia through salvaged weapons/armor/etc[message #315569] Tue, 19 February 2013 00:41 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
If you rate a caliber as 'valuable', don't hand it to the militia. There should be enough common stuff around to keep them going, looking back at some of the stocks I maintained.


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