Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » Aliens: A JA2 Mod
| Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316337]
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Sun, 17 March 2013 08:58 
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 Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Howdy All!
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, as this is more of an idea than it is a Mod work in progress. But i've been haunted for weeks now (since the release of Colonial Marine) by a thought i had of turning JA2 into an Aliens game.
It really struck me when, while i was looking through the XML editor that i noticed there was an image for the M41A Pulse Rifle. i copied the stats of XM-29 OICW (because of the clip-fed grenade launcher) and slap some pulse rifle sounds to it, and it sounds and looks the part.
I also discovered another Mod that turned the 'bugs' into Xenomorphs (all credit to you who made it, sorry dude, totally forgot where i got it from)
My question is, can it be done that all the enemy soldiers be turned into 'creatures' and have them maintain the soldiers activities, as in attack towns, roam the map and such.
Ive got a pretty strong idea of what i want to happen, ive downloaded as many mod tools as i could find, but my knowledge of modding is next to zip.
Im looking for a tileset to match a LV-426 and Hadley's Hope look. as the textures in JA wouldnt do it justice.
Also, the full auto with my Pulse Rifle is incorrect and im unsure of how to use the VLC (.ogg) system that the 1.13 patch uses for the other weapons.
Please, anyone that could help or give me direction id be eternally grateful.
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Corporal
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316378]
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Tue, 19 March 2013 12:44 
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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may i ask, what are the best editors to use? the XML is great for the items, and ive got the map editor, and the INI editor.. ive been trying to get a good tile editor, but the 3 or 4 that ive downloaded needs me to download this other thing to unpack certain files, which is all good, but it seems ive got more editors than i know what to do with... The tile editor using the "GIMP" program was certainly the most successful, but once the tiles are made, how do i put them into my own custom tile set? or replace an existing one?
With out really knowing what im doing, is confusing enough without having to use 50 different editors..
Sorry, another question if i may, can i combine tilesets? Leaving making my own textures for another time, there are a few decorative items in "Military Base" tileset that i would like to couple with "orta weapons" tileset... is this possible and how?
[Updated on: Tue, 19 March 2013 12:52] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316469]
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Fri, 22 March 2013 12:08
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Thanks again Hawkeye.
lockie - I was hoping to turn towns into large complexes, rather than a few houses dotted around like they are at the moment. Drassen becoming the loading dock and storage. Cambria being medlab and operations etc etc. But you are right, with creatures not being able to climb, then yeah, as a cowards retreat you could just climb on top of a building... unless i made all roofs peaked??? but, i was thinking along the lines of making as many structures as there are towns. 8 almost map sized structures was along the lines of my thinking..
so for Drassen, B13 would be the landing strip, And C13 would be a continuation of that strip. D13 would be the loading dock, big hanger and storage. So you would have pretty much no cover in B13 and C13. making D13 the only place your squad could defend with a okay chance of success (because i dont want there to be militia)
I was hoping i might have found a tileset to look a little like LV-426, making the 'dirt' tile a black/grey would've been enough, so i could spend my time on working the maps (not that im any good at it). The terrain doesnt look that different in the movie, so its not like much variation would be going on in the maps.
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316762]
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Sat, 30 March 2013 02:45
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Ive got no experience in modding what so ever  i'm learning what i can, where i can, and taking what i can from the fantastic work of those better than i.
The plan is to turn all mercs into Marines, so they start with appropriate weapons, which will only be Pulse rifles, smartguns, flamethrowers, pistols and shotguns.
I havent got a tile set that looks like LV-426, but im looking to changing the whole JA2 map into LV-426. So a series of large complexes rather than towns with lots of little houses.
I've got to go at this moment, but if you're interested, i'll give you a break down of what i was thinking and what i wanted to archive later on.
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316845]
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Sun, 31 March 2013 10:19
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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I want it as close to the film as possible, but keeping in mind that its a game that's to be played and hopefully enjoyed, even if you lose.
A quick break down is as follows:
Mercs: I want to change mercs to marines, a simple renaming of a few choice mercs to represent some of the film marines (i.e. 'Vicky' looks a lot like Vasquez. 'Shadow' has a Hicks persona about him. Magic or Gus would be a good Sgt. Apone etc). i suppose it wouldn't be too hard to just change the pics to cut outs of the actual marines themselves.
Weapons: I'm aiming to take out all other weapons, save for the Pulse Rifle, Smartgun, A pistol, a pump action shotgun and a flame thrower (again, not sure if its even working in 1.13, i know it wasn't in vanilla). Id really like to incorporate the robots to be like sentry guns.
Enemies: Aliens... all aliens. nothing but aliens. I've been talking to Callahan about using his Aliens from Demise of Man, and using his 'life-cycle' he has so there can be face huggers, eggs, drones etc etc. The main objective is to simply kill the queen alien.
NPCs: There won't be any. No side quests. Unless it were to be made to say rescue a survivor (like Newt) No militia either, meaning to defend a strategic area, you will have to by leaving a squad there to do so.
Maps: I really want to rework the whole map into Hadley's Hope. where the towns in JA2 would become certain Areas of the complex (cambria would be Med-bay and Operations, Drassen the loading dock/bay and landing pad etc) though they wouldn't be joined. I'm thinking along the lines of almost map sized buildings with many rooms and corridors, like a space hulk idea, rather than lots of little structures like houses in JA2. Of course, this would all come together a hell of a lot better if it were to look spacey, so i'm yet to compile a tile-set that would work across the entire land scape. The areas between the complex's would in a sense be nothing, just rock and cliffs. Boring i know, but the idea is, you don't want to be caught outside in a battle with aliens, as you'll have no cover against their superior numbers and they mostly come out at night... mostly.
Money: money and the mines i hope to turn into Requisition points. So holding a mine will give you a certain amount of req points. it doesn't continually generate it, thinking along the same lines a Dawn of War and pop caps. say if you start with 5 marines, if you lose two, then that will free up req points to recuit 2 more marines, to replace the ones you lost. Their 'Rank' not really coming into it, as even the best of the best can't be every where at once, or hold a position by them selves. keeping in mind, there's only so many marines. so if you go and recruit the best and lose them in the first few fights... sucks to be you. Like X-com i guess. and if you take over (and hold) a mine, you'll be given X amount of req points to spend on weapons, ammo and reinforcements.
You'll still have the dropship (heli) and APC (hummer). i'm thinking of keeping the SAM sites in but making them more like Beacons. Holding them making it possible for the drop ship to navigate in the bad weather of LV-426.
anyways, i've gotta go. Let me know what you guys think is good, shit or undo-able. Or if you think something else should be in there.
Cheers for your time
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316850]
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Sun, 31 March 2013 16:01
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Flamethrowers are possible and do work - if I recall, AIMNAS has them, not sure about other mods. I also did them for a side-project of mine - so it can be implemented in 1.13 easily, so no worries.
Note that balancing aliens will be hard (in my view), because of their melee-only nature. If they are too slow, it becomes a turkey shoot. If they are too fast, a massacre (especially with bad starting gear). I'd heavily advise to keep out HP and glaser ammunition types. In case you have any buildings, either their roofs will have to be inaccessible, or the aliens will have to be able to climb roofs. If there is no 'climb roof' animation for them, this can be coded to teleporting (doesn't look nice, but works).
I really like the map idea^^. If I understood you right, the landscape would be pretty open, and at night you'd have a high chance of being ambushed by aliens, just like the bloodcats.
Requisition points... hmm. A problem is that in the films you don't recruit new people, and don't have to pay them, but this is integral for JA2 (other mods with a similar setting also suffer from this). At least this sounds better than money.
I think the main problem will be the unholy amount of map work this requires. You propably want a more LV-426 tileset, and will then have to redo all maps, which is a giga-crapton of work.
Overall, I really like this idea. Let's see what you do with it^^
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316904]
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Tue, 02 April 2013 02:48
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Thanks for the input, Flugente!
I agree with you in the balancing act. Had some other people say the same thing about the roofs and such. I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to leave in the 'Spitting' aliens to mix it up, though that would go heavily against the movie (despite what Colonial Marines says!). But i'd like to think the sheer numbers against you would be enough of a challenge. Not to mention if what Callahan says is true, then there will be stronger Elite Aliens (Praetorian) that will take a lot more punishment.
As for starting gear, save for a few particular marines, every one will get Pulse rifles and a pistol, basic combat armor, a few clips of both 95 round, 10mm exp-tipped caseless (which i was planning to use the AET to simulate) and 30x71mm HE grenades. This was my inspiration, I took the OICW assault rifle (because of its clip fed under slung grenade launcher) and tweaked it to have the image of a Pulse Rifle, with its 95 round capacity, and sound effects. though full auto isn't right yet. Having this in really really made me want to try and pull this together.
So there would be heavy weapons Marines, like Drake and Vasquez, who start with Smartguns. Some Marines will have secondary weapons, like the Flamers or Shotguns. Some marines will be medics and have the according gear (though these guys are military, so they all got the same basic training. which means every one will be able to do first aid, just medics will do it faster/better). but on that note, one of the core elements of the films (almost all of them) is trying to channel the Aliens to where you want them (doesn't always work though, or sometimes, works too well eh Dallas?). So i guess i'm thinking that certain Mechanic Marines can run a by-pass and lock doors, better enabling you to set up defenses.
It would seem then that, you can put your self into a great position and have like you said, a turkey shoot. But the idea of the Requisition Points, would be trying to stop that. As you would have to take away from your defense team to have a decent offensive team. I know its not movie like, they sent everyone first go in the film. Which while made for a great movie, was pretty tactically stupid, as there was no one left on board the Solaco. The reasoning then, is that as you make the place safer, or more like hold certain critical positions, the more marines big general man will be willing send down to what would seem like certain death.
But you are 100% correct, with-out a decent looking LV-426 tile-set or similar, this just ain't going to work, no matter what i do with the maps. There are a few elements from the Vanilla JA that would work well, such as the objects, but most of the really good ones are spread across different tile-sets. I've tried my hand at making my own tile-set, even stole a few textures from Space Hulk. But really, I'd have a better chance of running for emperor of the world, than getting that done.
Anyways, again, thank you for the input. The more, the better.
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Corporal
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316906]
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Tue, 02 April 2013 03:15
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Spitting aliens are pretty odd if one wants to use the movies imho. The idea to use praetorians as is way better (one could effectively balance the aliens physical resistance, so the aforementioned problem can be balanced).
A minor problem with the gear is that if everyone has reasonable gear (marines start with pulse rifles/smartguns), then there is no item progress whatsoever. This might become a bit boring, as the enemy doesn't progress as well. Otoh, it would be something unusual in JA2.
Due to recent developments  , you can create basically any combo-weapon you like. So a M41A1 can have underslung grenade launchers/shotguns/flame throwers/whatever. This might lead to a bit of 'item progress feeling'. And be useful and lore-friendly alike.
The idea to 'channel' the aliens into killzones is pretty new (might need AI changes, as I suspect in complicated buildings the AI might be too stupid for that too work.
Concerning requisition points... that would mean that if you lose important 'requisition areas', you lose soldiers you already have... Otherwise one could conquer the areas, hire additional personnel, and move on. Then there'd be no reason to defend anything, and the player could build up a platoon, and move his entire team at once.
How about using facehuggers? They are in Callahan's stuff. I don't remember if one could 'cure' infection, but it would make sense gamewise. If infection cannot be cured, getting hugged would be a death-sentence (lets face it, almost everybody would reload then). However, if that could be cured... say, in a very remot part of the map (med-bay)... this might be more immersive an give the player sth to do (conquer med-bay and bring infected marine there in < 8 hours, otherwise he's dead).
I dunno how good you are at coding/mapping. Personally I'd start with everything that is not mapping, as that's where any unexpected problems will be. Perhaps begin with just few maps? For AIMNAS, Smeag began remapping entire Arulco in bigmaps. In his releases, one can only play those, the rest of Arulco is 'locked'. This might be a good approach, to begin with a small amount of Lv-426-ified maps, and then code the needed game changes. Then again, do a you like^^
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #316910]
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Tue, 02 April 2013 06:12
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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I can tell you how good i am at coding/mapping... Absolutely no idea.
All i have is the desire, and the dream. I don't mind putting in the hard yards to do what needs to be done, but as far as coding goes, or even art, im useless. i've learned bits and pieces as ive gone along, but i couldn't do anything by myself without guidance.
So with the req points. in your scenario there, if you had say (purely example) two positions giving you 5 req points each, giving you a total of ten, so lets say a population cap of 0/10. you hire 10 marines (all examples still, just rounding the numbers off) giving you a pop cap of 10/10. You lose one position, losing you 5 req points. you now have 10/5 (assuming of course your marines weren't killed in losing the position) you couldn't hire any more marines until you took over another two req positions, to give you a pop cap of 10/15. Or unless you lost 6 marines, taking you back to 4/5 in which you could hire only one. Pretty much the same idea as Dawn of War. The req points aren't accumulative. having two positions wouldnt continually generate req points. its awarded for controlling the area.
I am hoping to use Callahan's alien life cycle, so yes to face huggers. and i really like your idea of 'cureing' them, as it would make for more interesting game play. and stress more importance on keeping control of the med-bay.
Due to recent developments? Sounds like you had a hand in it some how That would certainly give more customization to the player. so you can equip your marines they way you want to for particular operations. under slung flamerthrowers and shotguns would be handy for close quarters. Jolly good thinking old son!
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #317051]
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Thu, 04 April 2013 20:04
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| S3rialThrill3r |
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Messages:26
Registered:January 2012 |
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Requisition points eh? Sounds a bit too abstract and "gamey" for my tastes. I was thinking that money or any sort of points system wouldn't fit in this sort of scenario. The Sulaco, as far as I know, was the only ship in the planet's orbit. The marines had all the resources they needed as long as they were able to preserve their dropship (which they didn't).
Maybe that should be the resource? That, and perhaps time. It would probably take quite a while to bring the dropship back up to the Sulaco, load the supplies, and then come back down to a secure area. Something like 12 hours? That can be a long time when you're anxiously waiting in some dark industrial complex with low ammunition.
Beacons sound like an okay idea though. However, it may be even better if the dropship can land at any outside area as long as something is being used to signal the marines' location, like a smoke grenade or some electronic doodad that the military of that time would no doubt use. Doesn't seem plausible that they would simply be dropped off with no way of phoning home, so to speak. The humvee (dunno what the vehicle in the movie is called) could have some communication equipment too.
Of course, in the interest of making things seem more "balanced", the landings at beacons could be made much faster than any attempted without such long-reaching signals, in order to simulate the pilot's difficulty in spotting smoke on the planet's surface or tiny blips on the radar.
So to sum up, I think the requisition points system smells a bit pooey. I just can't imagine how it can be directly linked to the way the operation actually ran in the film. Wasn't the Weyland-Yutani man Burke running the show? It's strange to think of him being the gatekeeper and calmly denying the marines' some much needed ammunition after nearly being skull-crushed by an alien tongue because they didn't acquire enough "points".
Now, people might be thinking, how does the player get a sense of item progression then? Well, one idea is to encourage the making of improvised items from things found in Hadley's Hope. It's a human colony on another planet after all, there's bound to be EVERYTHING. Perhaps it could be made a necessity due to the considerable, yet finite amount of supplies on board the Sulaco. You could turn this into the "Dead Rising 2" of JA2 mods, if you will. Only with slightly less outrageous weapons and more traps. So, what we have here is a constant state of decline in the Marines' provisions that were brought to LV-426, and an ever increasing need for scavenging, experimentation and good old-fashioned human ingenuity.
As for replaceable marines, how will you go about doing that? Are they going to be the same ones from the film, people originally created for this mod, no-name grunts or just JA2 mercenaries? The latter sounds kind of interesting to me, it could be a cross-over between the Aliens and Jagged Alliance universe. Of course, that would mean not resembling the film in any way.
I'm more inclined to just having the marines from the movie. Looking after a tight group seems more appropriate, especially if detailed survival mechanics are to be implemented (as seen in the addition of the food and drink system).
Anyway, I've said enough. Mapping is probably the most important thing to think about for now. I hope I wasn't too critical of your ideas.
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #324713]
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Wed, 04 September 2013 13:07
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Hey everyone!
I've not been on here for ages. I practically dropped this idea on the account of becoming a father, and with another bundle of joy on the way, i doubt i'll get time to do anything now But after having played the hell out of Space Hulk, it has reignited my imagination.
I'm thinking of starting real small, one or two maps. Though i really just need the building blocks to start.
I have the Alien's animation so tick for that.
I have a working Pulse Rifle and Smart gun, but i need help with the burst fire sounds. So that the game knows how long to play the sound depending on how many rounds you let off.
I'm going to use the mercs from ja2 and rename them to suit the marines from the film. I.E. Gus tarballs as Apone, Magic as Frost, Shadow as Hicks etc. But unsure if the editor in v1.13 is the best for setting them up this way. As well as setting their starting gear to coincide with the films. I.e. Lt. Gorman would only have a pistol, where as Hicks would have a Pulse Rifle and Shotgun.
As Serialthriller suggested, it would make for more interesting and critical game play, if you were given all 14 Marines (including ripely, but not burke) to start with, and thats it...
If anyone could tell me how to set these parameters, that would be great.
And if anyone can solve my problem with the pulse rifle's sound effects in burst fire mode, also would be fantastic.
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Corporal
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #324834]
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Sat, 07 September 2013 06:09
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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So this is the Pulse rifle, needs tweaking. It's using the stats from the XM-29, but with out its bonus' to low light vision, as the XM-29 has a in built scope, where the M41A doesn't. though it does have a higher rate of fire.
I've made it a 10mm, and i've created a special 10mm x 24 Explosive tipped ammo for it too... though i cant seem to get the weapon to start with that ammo. it always starts with the regular 10mm ammo. and because i decided to use the AET style ammo for the 10mm x 24 (to simulate the armor piercing and exp-tipped) the basic 10mm ammo that gets ejected from the gun just disappears because i've not made a normal 10mm caliber in the 95 round magazine.
I've made the grenade's for the under barrel launcher the same as the XM-29's so i wouldn't have to create another type.
I'm having a problem ATM with not being able to put in the ammo needed for the M41A, it doesn't show up as a place-able object in the map editor. How can i fix this?
And how can i change it so that my IMP merc starts with the load out i wish him to have?
P.S. Thank you, Sam for the help
[Updated on: Sat, 07 September 2013 06:36] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #324850]
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Sat, 07 September 2013 15:08
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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A few hours of stuffing about and hear is the equipment.
The pulse rifle has a 6 round underbarrel Grenade launcher, though i didnt rename it to suit the movies (doh!) and a retractable stock. it's stats are also based off of the Thompson, as it is in the film, just with a bit better range and burst fire.
M3 armored vest has a shoulder lamp on it that only gives a benefit to darkness and no negative... coz its a torch.
smartgun is right to use by its self, but it's the HUD headset that gives it the bonus to hit that a smart gun should have. no proper image for it yet (haven't found anyone that has one yet ) so i've just used the image of the machine gun its based on.
there seems to be a problem with such a high number of rounds in each mag, as the game tends to give a ??/600 or ??/95 instead of an actual reading. not sure how to fix this.
and for some reason, the mercs ive selected starting gear for, all start with the items ive given them except the leg armor... not sure why this is either.
i also heard that the flamer works too. is this true for the flamer in the XML editor? the flamer in 1.13? or is that some one else's doing?
anyways, now i want to suck the badguys out of the maps and put only aliens in... ive yet to try it, but i hope the editor doesn't mind maps being saved with no enemies in them.
let me know what you think.
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| Re: Aliens: A JA2 Mod[message #324882]
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Sun, 08 September 2013 02:21
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| Khandruas |
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Messages:46
Registered:March 2013
Location: Australia, Victoria |
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Once i've gotten all the mercs needed to fill the marine team, i need to average out their stats, atm with MD as Hudson, he is a terrible shot.
what stats would be a good average to represent the marines skills. strength, agility, wisdom and leadership will differ from each marine as you dont expect drake to have a high intelligence or leadership but a high strength and physical condition. As for hudson, he was a tech and 'squad leader' (if his wiki page is to believed. though he could very well have been smarter than he behaved, i doubt he'd have a high leadership due to his behavior. and naturally being a tech, would mean he would have a higher repair skill than the others (who very may well end up having 0)
anyways, a little advice on a good balance for marksmanship etc would be handy, i dont want to make them too powerful, or able to fend for themselves.
and could someone explain the 'new trait/skil' system to me. there's a skill/trait thats squad leader/deputy. how does this affect the merc?
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