Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316210] Tue, 12 March 2013 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
I need more informations to judge that. With which weapons are you firing at which range? Which attachments are present on the weapon? How high are experience, marksmanship, wisdom and dexterity of the shooter?

With default settings i had around 25-30% shots hitting for soldiers with assault rifles/submaschine guns, ~20% with machine guns (always full auto) and 40%+ with snipers on average according to the employment stats during the last full playthrough.

Early game when your mercs are relatively weak stat- and experience-wise, weapons are lacking range plus accuracy and high magnifying scopes are absent one part of your squad has to suppress the enemy with heavy autofire, buckshot ammo or frag grenades and others have to move closer for the kill. Or use the structure of the map to lure the enemy into close quarter combat or fight during the night.

Settings you can manipulate:

CTHConstants.ini

DEGREES_MAXIMUM_APERTURE - explanation speaks for itself
BASE_DIFFICULTY_xyz/AIM_DIFFICULTY_yxz - controls bonuses to chance to hit for the AI on that respective difficulty
MAX_EFFECTIVE_RANGE_REDUCTION - lower limit for the AI when exceeding nominal weapon range

Items.xml

Another method is to globally increase the bonus to aiming cap of the iron sights present on nearly all weapons (index 1700-1709, tag ).


With all tweaking i have to warn you to resist the temptation to make the game too easy^^. After all one of the premises of NCTH was to abandon the OCTH - "Headshot Game".

[Updated on: Tue, 12 March 2013 12:07] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316211] Tue, 12 March 2013 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vince7403

 
Messages:146
Registered:February 2012
Since I posted that, I did a clean install of AR+NCTH overhaul and now the game doesn't feel so unfair anymore - enemy bullets don't feel like merc-seeking missiles and I'm making a modest but believable fraction of my shots. I guess I may have broken something earlier, but I probably destroyed any opportunity to figure out exactly what or how.

I've encountered a real bug though - firing a 40mm HE grenade causes a crash every time. It doesn't happen in any other mod or on base 1.13, and it occurs for all exes I have newer than 5894.

The exact error:
Assertion Failure [Line 335 in file Strategic Town Loyalty.cpp]

[Updated on: Wed, 13 March 2013 04:28] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316242] Wed, 13 March 2013 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:451
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Update exe to 5917-bug will fix.

Strohmann,
Very intresting overhaul,indeed.If you don't mind i have maybe intresting proposition.How about to make all LBE gear with custom functions?Stock 1.13 mod have not much LBE gear and such LBe gear player can obtain almost without any troubles.What i suggest:Nerf all LBE gear with some slots(for example remove 1-3 random slots from Lbe gear like ammo pockets,tiny pockets etc),but for that player can make some custom edits with modular Lbe pockets.Plus add to LBe gear some bonuses\penalties with camofluage\AP penalties or something like that.So player starts with really low slots in lbe gear but he can upgrade those lbe gear with modular gear to increase his inventory.


Or make new LBE gear like:Modular LBe Vest(base pockets no more 1-3 slots,other pockets\slots for modular lbe gear),Modular LBE combat pack(1 big slot,1 small slot other closed slots can be customized with modular gear),Modular backpack(1-2 big slots,1-2 small slots,other slots\pockets can be customized with modular gear)

So what do you think about that?

[Updated on: Sat, 16 March 2013 12:53] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316700] Fri, 29 March 2013 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Ok, I'll probably have some time to try this weekend. While I haven't tried it yet I really appreciate that someone finally tries to improve the balancing of the game, and I feel this mod ought to get more attention and feedback.

Should I use the exe in your "Newest Update" package or the newest from depri's archive? I got the latest SCI so I guess the exe in your file might be outdated?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316716] Fri, 29 March 2013 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erzengel

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2013
Location: Germany, "Federal Village...
Strohmann

jaredh
- What does this mean?
For example in the "old" 1.13 data the stats of the stocks were directly on the item/weapon; the designer assumed they were folded/retracted most or all of the time. This had the disadvantage that all these weapons were far worse from the start than all the others with fixed stock of each weapon category.

With the changes the stock is a separate item, attached to a weapon. In the default state it gives no penalties and can be folded only if required, with an item transformation. This also makes modding easier as you only have to edit a handfull items instead of a large mass of individual weapons.


The effects of folding and collapsible stocks are somehow overestimated in the game. Collapsible stocks are used to adapt the weapon length to the shooters arms and the thickness of the body armor. Therefore they make make the handling and the aiming/shooting of the gun easier/faster. You only change the length of the stock if You get new body armor, otherwise it will always stay at the same length. You can also collapse it for the transportation in a vehicle or in a backpack. So the effects of a collapsible stock should be easier handling/shooting and a punishment for pulling it out of a combat pack slot during battle. No punishment for taking it from the sling.

Folding stocks should only be folded while riding on a vehicle with tight space or while doing some work where the long rifle is a disturbance. When You are on patrol You always have Your stock unfolded to react faster to hostile situations.
There is a big difference in the construction of folding stocks. The skeleton style, like it is used on the G36 and used as image for the attachment in the game, should betreated like a conventional stock and only reduce the item size for packing it into a backpack. There should be additional AP costs for taking it out of a backpack during combat.
I don't know if the AKs and other ARs/SMGs with the folding stock made from bended steel wire are more difficult to shoot than their versions with a fixed buttstock.

[Updated on: Fri, 29 March 2013 14:45] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316744] Fri, 29 March 2013 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Parkan
[..]If you don't mind i have maybe intresting proposition.How about to make all LBE gear with custom functions?Stock 1.13 mod have not much LBE gear and such LBe gear player can obtain almost without any troubles.What i suggest:Nerf all LBE gear with some slots(for example remove 1-3 random slots from Lbe gear like ammo pockets,tiny pockets etc),but for that player can make some custom edits with modular Lbe pockets.Plus add to LBe gear some bonuses\penalties with camofluage\AP penalties or something like that.So player starts with really low slots in lbe gear but he can upgrade those lbe gear with modular gear to increase his inventory.


Or make new LBE gear like:Modular LBe Vest(base pockets no more 1-3 slots,other pockets\slots for modular lbe gear),Modular LBE combat pack(1 big slot,1 small slot other closed slots can be customized with modular gear),Modular backpack(1-2 big slots,1-2 small slots,other slots\pockets can be customized with modular gear)

So what do you think about that?
Current LBE Situation:
Toggle Spoiler
The lbe gear vest is more or less close to what you want with the "Modular LBE Vest" as it has up to 5 small + 1 medium slot for modular pouches. The lrak saw-, ultility-, russian 106-, flecktarn-, tt pistol- and the police vest have 3 small + 1 medium slot for modular pouches. For combat packs and backpacks i couldn't find meaningfull new pocket types that were worth adding to the 3 current, so no large MOLLE pouches for them. Have you some ideas regarding that?
If you want something of that or the other lbe gear changed or added, please post the specifics. I didn't want to add penalties or bonuses because i reserved them for the armors and in case of lbe vests camouflage it seems to override the armored vest bonus.

krux
Ok, I'll probably have some time to try this weekend. While I haven't tried it yet I really appreciate that someone finally tries to improve the balancing of the game, and I feel this mod ought to get more attention and feedback.

Should I use the exe in your "Newest Update" package or the newest from depri's archive? I got the latest SCI so I guess the exe in your file might be outdated?

There are 4 possible reasons in my opinion:

1. The mod is not very old, it takes some time for full playthroughs and feedback.
2. Dislike of NCTH.
3. The mod is shitty/redundant/not matching my preferences etc. and not worth commenting (:trollface:).
4. The "advanced" users, that are more likely to test unstable versions, don't "waste" their time with relativly small overhauls like mine and instead go directly for the full-blown conversation mods like AFS, Aimnas etc that match their tastes more (perfectly reasonable). The users that just play stock 1.13 are probably less inclined to play unstable versions and wait for the next stable release. All these factors likely result in a limited pool of testers.

You can use the newest unstable exe, as long as it not denoted as save-game-breaking in his thread. I try to stay up-to-date with most important xml-changes, but i won't post a new update every time the exe version changes^^.


Erzengel
The effects of folding and collapsible stocks are somehow overestimated in the game. Collapsible stocks are used to adapt the weapon length to the shooters arms and the thickness of the body armor. Therefore they make make the handling and the aiming/shooting of the gun easier/faster. You only change the length of the stock if You get new body armor, otherwise it will always stay at the same length. You can also collapse it for the transportation in a vehicle or in a backpack. So the effects of a collapsible stock should be easier handling/shooting and a punishment for pulling it out of a combat pack slot during battle. No punishment for taking it from the sling.

Folding stocks should only be folded while riding on a vehicle with tight space or while doing some work where the long rifle is a disturbance. When You are on patrol You always have Your stock unfolded to react faster to hostile situations.
There is a big difference in the construction of folding stocks. The skeleton style, like it is used on the G36 and used as image for the attachment in the game, should betreated like a conventional stock and only reduce the item size for packing it into a backpack. There should be additional AP costs for taking it out of a backpack during combat.
I don't know if the AKs and other ARs/SMGs with the folding stock made from bended steel wire are more difficult to shoot than their versions with a fixed buttstock.
Toggle Spoiler

I think the ap costs are handled on a per-pocket-type base and can't be modified by items; exception is the rifle sling bonus, but that seems to be handled game internally (? , ask flugente or someone similar). So not feasible (at the moment).

I know some mods use item transformations to change to whole item and weapon image, but i have decided against it. On one hand i still have the mad dream that at least parts of this mod could be integrated in the main trunk some day. For this eventuality using transformations for every case would be unadvisable for stock 1.13 as i would have to make 1-2 copies for most weapons, blowing the item pool out of proportion. Not to mention all the new images i would have to steal/create for all these weapon copies. Also with the inclusion of firing-from-the-hip feature from Sandro the whole folding/unfolding mechanic became mostly obsolete in combat in my opinion.


[Updated on: Fri, 29 March 2013 22:15] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316751] Fri, 29 March 2013 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:451
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Strohmann,

If it possible to made all LBE VESt in game customisible?If Sniper\hunter vest has 2 closed pockets add ability to player mod this pockets so no closed space will be in inventory.As for large MOLLE pockets if it possible to add standart Large slots(General Large,Weapon Sling,etc)


PS do you plan update you overhaul for future builds?(like revision 5945 for example? Smile

[Updated on: Fri, 29 March 2013 23:57] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316759] Sat, 30 March 2013 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
I won't add fully customisable vests in a sense of customizing all 12 pocket slots with modular pouches yourself. That would make all other vests obsolete.

It is possible, but i don't see what purpose adding the current 3 large pocket types general large, weapon sling and combat pack as MOLLE versions would serve. There is a clear usefullness ranking between the 3, so there would be no meaningful choice between them and i don't want to artificially nerf them down to enable a choice.
Like i said in the previous post i need proposals for new meaningful large pocket variants before i would decide to expand the MOLLE system to large pocket slots.

A new release will have to wait longer. I want to add some new scopes and red-dot sights with the next release and they need new images. And i suck at creating them. Also i have to playtest for a while myself looking for errors and inadequacies as there wasn't much extensive feedback yet. And in the newer revisions there seems to be a nasty bug that keeps detaching inseperable attachments from my scopes if i try to organize them with the sector inventory.
A likely, but not guaranteed release date will be the point of time when flugente overhauls the drug system, which will likely break savegame compatibility. Until then you have to incorporate the xml-changes from newer revisions manually.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316763] Sat, 30 March 2013 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:451
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Maybe made those fully customizible VESts for later game not for early,to made game balance more stable?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316880] Mon, 01 April 2013 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erzengel

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2013
Location: Germany, "Federal Village...
I found a bug, which might be in Your xml work or in the game itself. I can't sell the Steyr TMP and the PP-93 MP to Tony if their folding stock is unfolded.
Fully customizable vests could turn out very annoying if You have to wait a long time to find the right pouch to adapt Yout vest to Your requirements.
With the old data i modded the xml-data of some vests to my wishes and then I was happy with the system. I would rather like to see a special mortar backpack with one slot for the mortar and many slots for single mortar rounds. Maybe I will create the xml for it, when i need it in my actual game.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316898] Mon, 01 April 2013 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yelirio

 
Messages:6
Registered:August 2012
Hi! The last month I've been trying to find a way to play with AR. I've been playing UC 1.13 and AFS, and when I installed AR had problems with the balance of the guns.
I tried to balance them more to my liking, but was very difficult. Your mod seems like the solution to my problem!

This morning I installed AR combined with this overhaul, is realy good! There are, of course, some stuff I'd like to see different:

Shotguns: Personally, I like them. Seems like your mod improved their damage, but tweaked a lot their max range. I've recruited Igor, he gets a sawed off with six tiles of range. I realy like to supress enemies with buckshot, but with this limitation to range I need to get really close. I can't even fire if the enemy is more than 12 (+ or -) tiles away. So, can you augment a little their range? Maybe also change the spreadpattern to a more wide one, that way the shotgun can kill really close, and supress at a distance.

Shotguns (2): Seems to me that the AIM mercs with shotguns comes with very limited ammo. Can't remember right, but believe that Igor comes with 8 buckshot shells (loaded sawed off plus three reloads) and nothing more. Maybe the other weapons also get limited ammo, going to check. I think that the mercs should come ready for combat, and 8 shots only (or 4 double ones) seems more like a "test if you like this weapon, if you do, go find some more ammo in the middle of the shootout". Can we get a little more ammo?

IMP gear: I created six IMPs just to test, and found a lot of attachments without weapons to attach them. The Kobra sight and folding stock seems useless to me at this point. Going to war with stuff that you don't use doesn't seems right to me, I don't know. I have a MG replacement barrel but no machinegun also. My sniper got an amazing ruger mini-14, but comes with an unattachable WWII-scope.


Also the game crashed when I've tried to steal from an enemy and the enemy got an interrupt. Well, actually it wasn't a crash: The cursor dissapeared, the turnbar became red (indicating interrupt), and the buttons of the steal menu appeared. I couldn't interact anymore with the game, except for the show enemy view button (del). Maybe this is from the interrupt system, but I don't know.

So, please tell me if you need to playtest anything. And sorry for the poor english.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316941] Tue, 02 April 2013 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
I've played the mod for about 1-2 hours with AR (basically just attacking the military base east of Omerta). Far from enough to form an opinion but so far I like it. My only complaint so far is that I would like to see a few more enemies with pistols in early game, even though I like the new gun choices overall.

yelirio, I found the shotguns more useful than usual. And a sawed-off shotgun is probably not the best example when arguing that the range is too low.

My IMP got a lot of duplicate basic stuff but that's a minor complaint. It's kind of neat that you get some attachments that you can only use later IMO.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316947] Tue, 02 April 2013 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Erzengel
I found a bug, which might be in Your xml work or in the game itself. I can't sell the Steyr TMP and the PP-93 MP to Tony if their folding stock is unfolded.
Technically the variant with unfolded stock is a completly new item, which isn't in TonyInventory.xml yet. I will update his list next time, until then just fold the stock and sell it then.
Quote:
[...] I would rather like to see a special mortar backpack with one slot for the mortar and many slots for single mortar rounds. Maybe I will create the xml for it, when i need it in my actual game.
If you have fitting images and xml-data you could send them in^^.

yelirio
Shotguns: [...]Seems like your mod improved their damage, but tweaked a lot their max range. I've recruited Igor, he gets a sawed off with six tiles of range. I realy like to supress enemies with buckshot, but with this limitation to range I need to get really close. I can't even fire if the enemy is more than 12 (+ or -) tiles away. So, can you augment a little their range? Maybe also change the spreadpattern to a more wide one, that way the shotgun can kill really close, and supress at a distance. [...] Seems to me that the AIM mercs with shotguns comes with very limited ammo. Can't remember right, but believe that Igor comes with 8 buckshot shells (loaded sawed off plus three reloads) and nothing more. Maybe the other weapons also get limited ammo, going to check. I think that the mercs should come ready for combat, and 8 shots only (or 4 double ones) seems more like a "test if you like this weapon, if you do, go find some more ammo in the middle of the shootout". Can we get a little more ammo?
The suppression effect of buckshot got buffed with HAM 5.0. I think with a too high initial range they will overshadow every other weapon in this part as one shot potentially can suppress whole groups of soldiers. Apart from this the sawed-off shotgun is more a sidearm, the typical shotgun has a range of 10-13 tiles with buckshot. The limited gauge ammo aspect will be addressed with the next update.
Quote:
IMP gear: I created six IMPs just to test, and found a lot of attachments without weapons to attach them. The Kobra sight and folding stock seems useless to me at this point. Going to war with stuff that you don't use doesn't seems right to me, I don't know. I have a MG replacement barrel but no machinegun also. My sniper got an amazing ruger mini-14, but comes with an unattachable WWII-scope.
Items that can use the kobra and the 5.56mm barrel appear at 10% progress, the ww-II rifle scope can be mounted on 0% weapons. With the folding stock you are probably right, maybe i replace it next update.Quote:
Also the game crashed when I've tried to steal from an enemy and the enemy got an interrupt. Well, actually it wasn't a crash: The cursor dissapeared, the turnbar became red (indicating interrupt), and the buttons of the steal menu appeared. I couldn't interact anymore with the game, except for the show enemy view button (del). Maybe this is from the interrupt system, but I don't know.
Likely unrelated to this overhaul.

Krux
My only complaint so far is that I would like to see a few more enemies with pistols in early game, even though I like the new gun choices overall.
Hmm, 11-12 weapons out of the pool of 50 are pistols at progress 0/10%, that's already higher than later. As the intended role of most pistols is more the of a sidearm, i won't likely increase that.Quote:
My IMP got a lot of duplicate basic stuff but that's a minor complaint.
You probably have chosen two major traits. I can't do something about that except to abandon the itemchoice based on major traits, which i won't. Not sure if the majority of players even choses 2 major traits, so not worth the the loss/effort in my opinion.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316961] Wed, 03 April 2013 07:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
There is another problem that came in my mind:

As some of you may have recognized, the huge weight of the many lmgs reduces their recoil considerable. But there is the possibility of external belt feeding, so the ammo is no longer "part" of the weapon in this case, instead carried by someone else.
In a sense you are exploiting by getting the best of both worlds: reduced recoil and carry weight for the machine gunner.

I have thought of ways to prevent that; i tried adding recoil modifiers on the ammo and weapon to cancel each other out, but this value doesn't shrink with reduced belt size, is lower on damaged weapons etc. Also the feature pulls in some ammo from the belt carried by another person if the weapon is empty.

The only other idea i have at the moment is an inseperable default attachment, that transform into an item with the belt feed flag and shrinks the mag size to 20 or 10 or something. A problem would be, that if the weapon is already loaded, the excess ammo would be ejected. Also somewhat complicated.

Has anyone better ideas to solve this problem?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316985] Wed, 03 April 2013 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erzengel

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2013
Location: Germany, "Federal Village...
Strohmann
Erzengel
I found a bug, which might be in Your xml work or in the game itself. I can't sell the Steyr TMP and the PP-93 MP to Tony if their folding stock is unfolded.
Technically the variant with unfolded stock is a completly new item, which isn't in TonyInventory.xml yet. I will update his list next time, until then just fold the stock and sell it then.
Quote:
[...] I would rather like to see a special mortar backpack with one slot for the mortar and many slots for single mortar rounds. Maybe I will create the xml for it, when i need it in my actual game.
If you have fitting images and xml-data you could send them in^^.


I already wrote the xml, but my actual game is so fresh that I don't have access to Bobby Rays yet. So I have to wait until I can buy one backpack. If it is working, I will look for a fitting image (at the moment I'm using the Patrol Pack image) and publish the xml-data. My research revealed no dedicated carrying devices for mortar crews, this (propably outdated) Field Manual shows some improvised carrying devices:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/Ch8.htm#top

I discovered some new issues:
I can apply the woodland helmet cover only to the steel helmet and not to the other helmets.
The camo shirt can only be applied to the kevlar vest and not to the flak jacket or the Guardian Vest. I don't know, if this is intentional or not. I was also surprised that the camo kits only add a low percentage value to the mercs camo. With 4870 and stock original data, I could use one kit to get at least two mercs to 100% camo (depending on the camo values of their other equipment):
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317024] Thu, 04 April 2013 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Which other helmets? You should only be able to apply the camo helmet covers to the steel -, spectra - and dyneema helmet. The others already have some inherent desert or woodland camouflage. The camo shirt should fit to the kevlar -, spectra -, dyneema - and twaron vest.

I found the stock camo kits vastly overpowered. They make camouflage from other sources redundant in most cases. Effectively halving the the enemy sight range with just one cheap kit available for everyone is too strong in my opinion. I think technically they are only applied to the skin of your face and hands, so they shouldn't give 100% camouflage for the whole body.

So now they are just a small supplement to the camouflage given by the armor, which you will have to choose fitting to the enviroment. The average soldier will have around 30-35% camo, while the ghillie suit armor parts give up to 75%, but have some penalties to compensate.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317086] Fri, 05 April 2013 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yelirio

 
Messages:6
Registered:August 2012
Hi!

I've been trying the shotguns again, i was misusing them, they are useful.

Can you give the Baikal MP-233B a burst to fire the two barrels at the same time?

The Fabarm FP6 is worse than the Ithaca Model 37, except for the possibility to attach a rifled choke. I don't know if it should be better, but with range 5 is worse than the sawed off, and IIRC has a higher coolness level.

The armor seems too nerfed to me. The enemy are using steel helmets, flak and kevlar vests, and my 9mm HP ammo kills them in one/two/three shots, it's like the same as no armor at all. Maybe the protection value should be higher, but with lots of degradation after being hit. Flak has 10 protection, with 75% coverage and 25 degradation. Maybe 20 protection, 75 coverage and 50-75 degradation?

The Trapper seems too powerful to me. With 49 damage and 1.3 against flesh is (usually) a instakill against my mercs. The ruger redhawk has the same issue, but with less range so is more or less ok.

I really like that the different calibers work different now, but I think that they can be balanced a little more. Like .45 for example:
Lead: 1.0 armor 1.5 flesh
HP: 1.5 armor 1.7 flesh
Seems like standard lead is better all around.

Some bug: I used the 9mm match ammo crate (big one) to produce ammo for a glock 17. The result: 20mm mustard gas clips with 15 rounds each. I can load them in the glock, and they behave like match ammo, but the weight and price is the same as mustard grenades.

Extra: Now the SVN version incorporates the deadly games mercs. I had to modify your xmls (mercs and mercstartinggear) to add them.

Thanks for your mod, I'd like to see it in the main trunk.



Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317269] Wed, 10 April 2013 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CapnJack

 
Messages:58
Registered:June 2012
Erzengel
I already wrote the xml, but my actual game is so fresh that I don't have access to Bobby Rays yet. So I have to wait until I can buy one backpack. If it is working, I will look for a fitting image (at the moment I'm using the Patrol Pack image) and publish the xml-data. My research revealed no dedicated carrying devices for mortar crews, this (propably outdated) Field Manual shows some improvised carrying devices:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/Ch8.htm#top

I made some images for this mortar carrying pack designed to carry the M224 mortar system and mortars. You can download the bitmaps from here.
http://img15.imagefra.me/i549/pudnut/t88b_4a6_ubm7e.pngUploaded at ImageFra.me
http://img15.imagefra.me/i549/pudnut/10la_ce9_ubm7e.pngUploaded at ImageFra.me
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317274] Wed, 10 April 2013 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erzengel

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2013
Location: Germany, "Federal Village...
Great, Thank You! The backpack in Your link is designed to carry the complete M224 Mortar. If You use it for the "Commando"-Mortar (which is basically a M224 without Bipod and with lighter Baseplate), I assume it would be possible to carry five or six 60mm rounds instead of the bipod and the heavier baseplate.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317308] Thu, 11 April 2013 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Next Update: *Link*

Contains the svn additions since the last update like the new mercs etc. Also reworked the starting gear again and added some new items. They all have unfinished placeholder images, but i thought it would be better to accept this than to delay the release days or weeks longer just because of that.

[color:#FF0000]Edit @ all: exe 5990 breaks the game, reuploaded with 5986 exe until this is fixed.[/color]
---------
yelirio
Can you give the Baikal MP-233B a burst to fire the two barrels at the same time?
I thought about that, too, but decided against it. 2x 77 damage would be too strong early on and with higher coolness the very low mag size would be diametral. Besides the gun already has its nich
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317489] Wed, 17 April 2013 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
I enjoy the mod a lot so far! Here is a few minor bugs I found:

Seems like some attachment info is incorrect. Almost all SMGs and pistols says that they can take a reflex sight, but very few of them acctually can. Same with ACOG on many weapons.

Shotgun chokes are useless but I guess that is intended?

Folding the stock on a MAT-49 with c-mag results in a CTD

[Updated on: Wed, 17 April 2013 00:23] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317500] Wed, 17 April 2013 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2050
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
I think I should give this a go, could be a good way to get back into the fold again Very Happy


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317505] Wed, 17 April 2013 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
All the sheeple belong to us.
---------------
krux
[...]Seems like some attachment info is incorrect. Almost all SMGs and pistols says that they can take a reflex sight, but very few of them acctually can. Same with ACOG on many weapons.

Are you playing with an older update? Look if the reflex sight has the item transformations "Switch Mounting Type to Small Arms/Long Arms". Do you get a message like "You cannot use your xyz Iron Sights and your ACOG 4x at the same time."? If yes check if you can transform the iron sights to enable compatibility with scopes. If not i need more detailed info like update version, screenshots etc.

Quote:
Shotgun chokes are useless but I guess that is intended?

What do you mean with useless? The Imp. Mod. Shotgun Choke and Full Shotgun Choke apply only to buckshot and the Rifled Choke only to slugs, flechette ammo is never (?) affected but that was always that way.

Quote:
Folding the stock on a MAT-49 with c-mag results in a CTD

Yeah, that's a known issue that always happens if you transform a replaceable item while any mag adapter is attached. Unfortunatly i can't do something about that, i reportet it already and we will have to wait until the official mod team around the unstable versions will fix it.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317516] Wed, 17 April 2013 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Ok, something is probably wrong with my install then, because no shotguns can use the chokes in my game (the attachment slot hints only at extender and duckbill). I thought you maybe intended to remove them from the game or something.

That could probably explain the problem with the reflex sight as well. I get the "cannot use x and y at the same time" with both reflex and ACOG but I will try your suggestion and look in to it a bit more when I get home.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317531] Thu, 18 April 2013 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CapnJack

 
Messages:58
Registered:June 2012
I think many of the earlier coolness shotguns can only use the duckbill. Eventually you will find some that use chokes but honestly I feel like shotguns are mostly useless in this modification, not to mention chokes provide very little bonus. If you fire one any significant amount your merc will be gasping for air in a few turns. It is much more effective to use something more flexible like an smg. I guess the serbu super shorty is ok at the beginning of the game due to it being fast enough for the early closer range engagements and its 12g suppressing power. Maybe some of the later coolness shotguns like the AA12 can be useful as well but for my playstyle I always find a decent assault rifle or smg to be the better option.

As for not being able to use the reflex and acog on certain guns, some have sights that can be transformed to "better sights" that raise their percent aiming cap while sacrificing target tracking. In the improved mode these sights will disallow mounting of optics and you must transform them back.

On another note, I have found that Tony will not buy Berreta Cx4 Storms from mercenaries at least in the .45 ACP variant. Possibly others but I have only found Cx4 in .45 ACP.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317558] Fri, 19 April 2013 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Ok now I've checked this with my install.
No shotguns I've found so far (including benelli m3) can mount chokes.

KAC PDW can take a reflex sight when the sights are set to allow scopes, but HK UMP & MP5/40A3 cannot regardless of sight settings.

Pistols like glock and taurus revolver, and also the m3 says that they can take the relfex sight in the ingame info but doesn't ("cannot mount x & y at the same time").

Edit: I realise now that when starting a new game everything works as it should (as far as I can see). I can not remember that tinkering with the xmls ever required a new game though, which made me a bit confused.

[Updated on: Fri, 19 April 2013 01:48] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317567] Fri, 19 April 2013 06:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wsmithjr2013

 
Messages:50
Registered:March 2013
Location: New Jersey
Thanks for this mod. Can't really offer many constructive comments but I'm enjoying the different items. Just wondering though, is this mod more difficult than stock Arulco Revisited 1.4? Only playing on Experienced and AR 1.4 seems a good balance for me (at least early on) but playing with this mod on Experienced, I'm constantly getting my butt kicked. Maybe it's just me. Also, could it be the difference between 1.13 stable 4870 with AR 1.4 vs 1.13 unstable 5986? Don't mean to complain, just wondering if it's just me or there is an intentional difference.

Thanks.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317569] Fri, 19 April 2013 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erzengel

 
Messages:15
Registered:February 2013
Location: Germany, "Federal Village...
The only issue I had in combination with AR 1.4 is, that You can't merge the preplaced weapons and sights like in stock 1.13 with AR. Therefore the Mini 14 and SG552 are rather useless until You find matching sights.
This might make You weaker in combat.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317575] Fri, 19 April 2013 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Krux
Ok now I've checked this with my install.
No shotguns I've found so far (including benelli m3) can mount chokes.

KAC PDW can take a reflex sight when the sights are set to allow scopes, but HK UMP & MP5/40A3 cannot regardless of sight settings.

Pistols like glock and taurus revolver, and also the m3 says that they can take the relfex sight in the ingame info but doesn't ("cannot mount x & y at the same time").

Edit: I realise now that when starting a new game everything works as it should (as far as I can see). I can not remember that tinkering with the xmls ever required a new game though, which made me a bit confused.
If that just happened to a few items, then there is no need to start a completly new game. Just recreate them with item transformations or cheat codes.
CapnJack
On another note, I have found that Tony will not buy Berreta Cx4 Storms from mercenaries at least in the .45 ACP variant. Possibly others but I have only found Cx4 in .45 ACP.
In stock 1.13 there is just a .45 ACP variant and the oversight of not being able to sell it was already there. Nevertheless it was fixed with the last update.
wsmithjr2013
Thanks for this mod. Can't really offer many constructive comments but I'm enjoying the different items. Just wondering though, is this mod more difficult than stock Arulco Revisited 1.4? Only playing on Experienced and AR 1.4 seems a good balance for me (at least early on) but playing with this mod on Experienced, I'm constantly getting my butt kicked. Maybe it's just me. Also, could it be the difference between 1.13 stable 4870 with AR 1.4 vs 1.13 unstable 5986? Don't mean to complain, just wondering if it's just me or there is an intentional difference.
Well, if you use the new features that bring the unstable versions with them the game becomes more complex, but that must not necessarily mean harder.
Judging this mod alone, it will be definitely harder. Reasons that immediatly sprung in my mind:

1. The enemies have access to armor already at 10% progress.
2. NCTH means less odds of hitting by default in most cases. If you use the default CTHConstants.ini from this mod the the enemies will start firing at quite further ranges (but are less likely to hit).
3. The enemy army isn't just sporting pistols at the game start.
4. The increased weapon damage probably is a double-edged sword. On lower difficulty with smaller enemy numbers you should mow them down faster before they become a major threat, on higher ones the ai gets more of an advantage as you have to be more carefull.

You have to report your problems in detail, without knowing that my initial advice is to increase the starting money to hire more mercs.
Erzengel
Therefore the Mini 14 and SG552 are rather useless until You find matching sights.
Yeah, that SIG Commando in san mona is definitely anticlimatic, as it is a coolness 7 weapon in my mod; AR was just built with OCTH in mind. Did you really find the ruger rather useless? A merc with marksman or hunter trait should get a rather decently target aperture with the iron sights, even at longer range and without a scope.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317661] Tue, 23 April 2013 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
buuface

 
Messages:165
Registered:October 2011
Hi Strohmann

Thanks for creating this mod its very interesting.
I found it unplayable to begin with but after reducing
SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS to 150

and following your steps to nerf the accuracy of autofire (still very effective but more for suppression and less lethal than before). its now much more enjoyable for me.

Its very challenging however and i wouldn't consider playing on iron man mode anymore as it would be too difficult and very frustrating.

The main game-play problem is that even on AR maps often the extended sight range means enemies spot my mercs immediately ad sneaking around is very difficult (i haven't had any night battles or during rain yet, or thoroughly tested camouflage) though) .

I think this mod would be perfect for AIMNAS big maps. Have you considered modding aimnas items to your NCTH system (assuming smeagol wouldn't mind)?

One other thing, and sorry if this has been mentioned already; the enemy and civilian combat turn is super-duper fast even though in the option .ini it says they are at normal speed. I';m using 1.13 unstable 6020 with AR mod but this was also the case in 5996.

Many thanks

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317662] Tue, 23 April 2013 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CapnJack

 
Messages:58
Registered:June 2012
Did you make sure you have Auto Fastforward AI turns off in the options menu? It's on the second page.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317664] Tue, 23 April 2013 06:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wsmithjr2013

 
Messages:50
Registered:March 2013
Location: New Jersey
buuface
I found it unplayable to begin with but after reducing
SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS to 150

and following your steps to nerf the accuracy of autofire (still very effective but more for suppression and less lethal than before). its now much more enjoyable for me.


Interested in what values you changed. First post indicates changing NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE to globally affect auto weapons fire, but I'm not really understanding what that option does.

Strohmann
You have to report your problems in detail, without knowing that my initial advice is to increase the starting money to hire more mercs.


Thanks for the comments. It's not so much that I'm having "problems", just that it seemed more difficult than previous and the points you make confirm that it's not just my imagination. I had tried heading first to Chitzena (after San Mona) as recommended with AR and was faring rather poorly given the hail of lead from automatic weapons that I was facing.

I have just toned down the suppression system to 100% to see how that feels. 200% seemed a bit too rough given the higher proliferation of automatic weapons early. The higher damage is definitely a double-edged sword. It's nice when it works in your favor. Not so nice when your IMP merc is crouching behind a window in Omerta with weapon raised and ready and an enemy comes into sight and unloads a burst doing 87 points of damage. Can't say I've had that happen in Omerta before.

Not complaining ... just need to step up my game a bit. I really appreciate the mod, probably mostly for the work on the "Reduced weapons" setting. Base 1.13 is a bit overwhelming for me trying to figure out the differences between tons of weapons that all looked the same. I like the variety, but it was a bit too much so I appreciate the effort in this regard.

Thanks.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 April 2013 07:04] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317668] Tue, 23 April 2013 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
buuface

 
Messages:165
Registered:October 2011
Hehe thanks CpnJack i just realised. silly me,
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317677] Tue, 23 April 2013 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
buuface
I think this mod would be perfect for AIMNAS big maps. Have you considered modding aimnas items to your NCTH system (assuming smeagol wouldn't mind)?
Not likely, even if i would be interested, there still is much to do for this mod. His stance is: smeagol 23.2.2013
I'm still not willing to use NCTH but instead want to make OCTH even more playable with increased sight and gun ranges than it already is.
So you probably have to wait till Headrock returns and eliminates the remaining problems with NCTH, then smeagol could eventually consider fully supporting NCTH.

Edit: There was an older thread regarding that matter, that could be your starting point: NCTH for AIMNAS, v1.6 (or is that already incorperated? I don't know, i never played Aimnas^^.)
wsmithjr2013
[...]First post indicates changing NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE to globally affect auto weapons fire, but I'm not really understanding what that option does.
New CTH system - Presentation

In short, NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE (single shots) and NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE (burst+auto) are calculator units for the shooting system. At these distances, normally associated with the iron sights and the absence of other aiming devices, the targeting aperture (the fancy circle) has a fixed size xyz. If you fire at targets closer/farther away relative to these distances, the target appears visually bigger/smaller for the shooter. Because as you as the player view the battle field always from the same distance, this effect is realized by the shrinkage, if closer/growth, if farther away, of the targeting aperture by the game.

Scopes compensate for the growth of the apertue size by acting as a multiplier to these distances with the tag ScopeMagFactor, so with a 4x scope you will get the same aperture size at 4 x the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE/NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE (=28/20 tiles with default values) as you would get without any aiming devices at 7/5 tiles.

[Updated on: Tue, 23 April 2013 15:23] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317740] Wed, 24 April 2013 06:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
buuface

 
Messages:165
Registered:October 2011
So reducing the NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE value would increase the normal size of the targeting circle just for autofire.. But is this effect purely visual or does the value also directly effect the accuracy of the fire?

Really enjoying your mod so far!
I'm guessing that mod-specific items like the new rifle scope x3 wont appear on the AR maps and must be purchased at bobby ray or looted from enemy's guns?

[Updated on: Wed, 24 April 2013 06:24] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #318120] Sun, 28 April 2013 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
buuface

 
Messages:165
Registered:October 2011
Hi Again

Just wanted to mention a few things;

1.I noticed that the AUG HBAR and AUG A2 can only be fitted with reflex sight or scope x2 but nothing more.. want sure if this was intentional or not,

2.Also it seems its no longer possible to remove or add attachments during battle because the AP cost is too high, was this intentional?

3.Finally it seems like the enemy are firing through walls and through ceilings at my mercs, who they cant see an, awful lot. I dont remember this happening often in vanilla.

Thanks again for the great mod!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #318121] Sun, 28 April 2013 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
buuface

 
Messages:165
Registered:October 2011
Hi Again

Just wanted to mention a few things;

1.I noticed that the AUG HBAR and AUG A2 can only be fitted with reflex sight or scope x2 but nothing more.. want sure if this was intentional or not,

2.Also it seems its no longer possible to remove or add attachments during battle because the AP cost is too high, was this intentional?

3.Finally it seems like the enemy are firing through walls and through ceilings at my mercs, who they cant see an, awful lot. I dont remember this happening often in vanilla.

Thanks again for the great mod!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #318128] Sun, 28 April 2013 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
You can delete one of your double posts.

1. + 2. Yes.
3. If your mercs get spotted by someone else, others can try to suppress you through walls and ceilings, if the material is thin enough.
Already happend in vanilla, for example with bamboo huts in tropical sectors. I upped the structureImpactReductionMultiplier/-Divisor a bit for many calibers.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #318506] Thu, 02 May 2013 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
After playing some more I managed to fix the incorrect attachments, I didn't have all files correctly updated, so my bad.

- Anyway, shotguns drain stamina a lot! Maybe could tweak that a little?
- AP cost for pulling the hammer on large pistols seems a bit high.
- the foregrip might be a bit overpowered.

Other that that it plays great!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #318642] Sat, 04 May 2013 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Just started playing your mod together with AR. I'm very happy you are able to use my Exel, could you tell me what formula you are using for the x/y recoil values?

Still early days so won't comment on balance, except suppression seems very powerful given the prevalence of auto weapons. I'll play with stock values for a bit, but will probably tone it down soon.

Regarding IMP item choice, I would lose the folding stocks and maybe consider adding a low level bolt rifle (WWII is fine) for the sniper speciality. Also maybe add in some higher quality pistols instead of the MP (and give auto weapons a decent SMG instead).
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