Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » JA: Flashback (Solutions. Tips. Spoilers!) » Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317818] Thu, 25 April 2013 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:441
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
JAFTeam
Can you elaborate on that question? That's much like asking "How do you solve the world hunger". And my question, to to that question, would be: "In what region exactly?". Otherwise my answer will be 42. Or: It shines blue.

Tactical combat. In Ja2 it was predictable, too predictable, not to mention suicidal, not really using equipped weapons properly, no healing or at least regrouping, no flanking ( at least that was added in 1.13 that and using snipers with spotters),...
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317819] Thu, 25 April 2013 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Take a look at their 'Frontline Tactics' - though not the smartest AI imaginable (but heh, it's a casual F2P thingy), I can tell you that AI does use cover, spotting and healing ...
So that's something they do know. Smile
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317826] Thu, 25 April 2013 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Frontline Tactics was originally developed for the iPads. The PC port is a F2P version done for a Publisher. Just to make that clear.

About AI. R@S made up a good point. What will we do if the AI becomes to good and makes the game kinda frustrating? Well, than it shall be frustrating. JA is Hardcore. And it won't be a pony-game. We know the target audience. And they are not dumb. And the AI shall not be dumb either.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317827] Thu, 25 April 2013 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:441
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
I like that kind of thinking.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 09:35] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317828] Thu, 25 April 2013 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Oh, and please add a lot of options to the difficulty settings. The time pressure and Enrico's emails to hurry you up (or lose the cities) adds to the story and emphasizes the time pressure you are living with, but sometimes I just enjoy having squads sit in fortified blocking positions for 600 days because I've started 'Operation Kill Every Living Thing'.

The way JA:BIA punished you for regrouping or waiting for funds/equipment was terrible (You waited to get an extra long rifle before the assault? Here are 8 more hostiles with battle rifles to ruin your plans. Wheeee.).

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 10:25] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317832] Thu, 25 April 2013 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
We haven't yet decided how to punish the player and about the details in the difficulty settings. What should be clear is, that, as this will be a JA game, you don't necessary need to follow the story. So your 600 days operation should be possible here, too.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317838] Thu, 25 April 2013 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:348
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
The cold war setting would suit well with some features i really care about:
- Surrender options (both player and AI)
- Prisonner interrogating
- Spycraft (covert operations)

I would love some non-lethal ways of dealing with the ennemy.
Jailbreak missions would be interesting too.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317850] Thu, 25 April 2013 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
More on the AI

Please consider making the AI very random when it chooses what to do. Like the AI having 3-5 options when spotting the player, run for cover, crouch and fire, pull back or just advance. If you gave all options a percentage chance it would make the fighting more variable, and this could be used in the difficulty setting as well since some tactics would be considered harder to deal with. Let's say the enemy1(e1) spots the player and there's a 60% chance he'll run to the nearest cover and raise his gun, fire if he has enough AP's left. There's a 30% chance he'll hit the deck and fire and then there's a 10% chance he'll pull back towards his closest ally. And if this closest ally(e2) is withing a radius he'll set up a covering position in case e1 is followed in the next turn.

You could then play around with the percentages when setting up the game difficulty, if the player plays the hardcore mode, the 10% options becomes the 60% options. It would make the game more challenging but at the same time still randomizing the AI behavior.

The AI should also have routines when they have many allies close by, some of them covering the advance of the others. Since this is what a player would do, I think it would be fun if the AI had the same possibilities. There should also be a percentage chance of AI options in this case, like how many of the unsighted enemies should make a flanking maneuver, 1 on easy, 2-3 on hard(depending on how big the enemy force is within a radius of course).

Since the player will be able to use the sight range when devising tactics, the AI should do the same. Have them coordinate their actions out of sight range and advance when they have enough fire support to do so. Let them use defensive tactics most of the time, and an offensive tactic when they have the numbers on their side. Try to make the AI behave similar to what you guys would do if you were in their position.

And finally about suppression. It should be fairly easy to implement an accuracy penalty if bullets wizz by a PC or enemy soldier, just subtract it from the next turn's accuracy number. This means more lead in the air and some people might complain since they are used to games making shooting very easy(just look at Headrock's NCTH for JA2 1.13 and the reaction it got Crying or Very Sad ). Some of us like realistic combat scenarios more than what a casual gamer might be used to.

These ideas are likely to make the fighting slow and not very action packed, but it would force the player to use their gray matter, which is more fun, at least for those of us who prefer chess like games.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317851] Thu, 25 April 2013 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CaRNi4

 
Messages:46
Registered:August 2001
Location: NL
JAFTeam

About AI. R@S made up a good point.


You guys should hire R@S, his mods are great! Wink
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317859] Thu, 25 April 2013 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3832
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Something I've always chuntered on about here to no avail is dynamic lighting ( from windows , searchlights , streetlamps ,switchable lights , destructable lights ,etc ) , is that possible , and will there be night fighting , with all the tactics that provides ?


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317860] Thu, 25 April 2013 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manami

 
Messages:33
Registered:October 2000
Very cool, project backed.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317861] Thu, 25 April 2013 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
CaRNi4
JAFTeam

About AI. R@S made up a good point.


You guys should hire R@S, his mods are great! Wink

and he is actually from sweden Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317862] Thu, 25 April 2013 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
lockie
Something I've always chuntered on about here to no avail is dynamic lighting ( from windows , searchlights , streetlamps ,switchable lights , destructable lights ,etc ) , is that possible , and will there be night fighting , with all the tactics that provides ?

i think i read either on their forum or on KS that there will be day night cycles so by default night fighting will be in as for dynamic lighting in dont know

btw update 2 online

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 16:42] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317865] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts/463644
Quote:
During all phases, enemies are only visible while inside line of sight and a few turns after leaving it again.

That's something i'd very much dislike if I got it right:
Enemy has been spotted, moves out of sight next turn (say, behind a solid wall or so, or just back into optical concealment) and I could still see him (and even what he might be doing in his next turn after this turn)?!

I'd suggest that every char who is in nobody's LoS is not visible anymore; just present a shape or greyed out figure (maybe with an arrow indicating in which direction he was heading on leaving LoS) to indicate where somebody was seen a few turns ago or something.

Would be pretty unrealistic (and annoying - for me at least)[1] if you could get a clear shot on a char that has moved out of sight in his turn just because he was seen last turn but is not currently ...

[1] That's something I am hating in Frontline tactics: a spotter advances towards opponents, gets to view lets say 3 opponent. Now it's opponents turn and one of the spotted chars retreats so that he would normally not been seen anymore. But he remains uncovered an can get shot at by e.g. enemy sniper (provided there is no obstacle preventing a shot). This is acceptable, IMVHO, for a casual game not going into deep tactics and with the initiative based turns for single chars (not alternating turns for complete sides) - but not for JAF's claim of complexity and difficulty.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317866] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Please note that this is still all up for discussion as well. The number of rounds, if even, isn't decided yet. And it ain't sure if every merc will see the same things in that special case as it is something about intuitive things.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317869] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
i liked the way silent storm handled hearing enemies. this system could be applied to intuition as well. instead of seeing the enemy just show a silhouette and adjust the accuracy of position as a function of lets say eperience and wisdom.

i especially liked that the system allowed to target enemies your mercs where only hearing. although you were never sure of their exact position. but thats nothing a long burst cant fix Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 17:34] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317870] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Yeah, that's why I am actually posting this here: to put my view/thoughts on this matter up for discussion.
And for YOU to see what I think about this.
I'm pretty well aware that nothing is set up in concrete yet, so it's IMHO the best point to mention it NOW so that you may or may not consider my opinion in advance ... Smile
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317871] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
Sam_Hotte
Yeah, that's why I am actually posting this here: to put my view/thoughts on this matter up for discussion.
And for YOU to see what I think about this.
I'm pretty well aware that nothing is set up in concrete yet, so it's IMHO the best point to mention it NOW so that you may or may not consider my opinion in advance ... Smile

good point, totally agree. the formulations are somewhat vague and leave a lot of room for interpretation at times. so lets get these things straight right away.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317873] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
We try to consider every opinion actually. Not that easy. But as of now it seems at least like some people indeed want enemies disappear directly. On an alternative we could implement this as a difficulty setting.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317877] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
As a matter of fact I quite like to have everything optional and configurable; so, yes, having a preference setting like "easy going casual = see spotted enemies for X turns" and "hard-core realism = WYSISWYG" Smile would be best IMO.
OTOH However I'm aware that too many configurable options or 1.13's XXXL sized options.ini tend to be a turn down to some potential players ...
(would be too easy, if something good could come without a drawback on the other side of the coin, anyways ... Wink )
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317878] Thu, 25 April 2013 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khargoth
Messages:4
Registered:March 2010
If you get enough funds to implent a Silent Storm like system it would be really nice. If not, let the enemies just disappear.
Pls don't make it possible to see their exact location while your mercenaries actually cant see them.
My first post here since been registered for some years just to tell you that. You got my hopes up really high, pls don't fuck it up .

PS: I want Raven in Very Happy
And tons and tons of guns, maybe a stretch goal.
And it would be nice if you answer the Paypal pledge question in your Kickstarter forum, interests me too.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317883] Thu, 25 April 2013 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shepard

 
Messages:22
Registered:January 2013
Location: Chitzena beach
[quote=Sam_Hotte]http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts/463644
Quote:

I'd suggest that every char who is in nobody's LoS is not visible anymore; just present a shape or greyed out figure (maybe with an arrow indicating in which direction he was heading on leaving LoS) to indicate where somebody was seen a few turns ago or something.


I also don

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 18:30] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317885] Thu, 25 April 2013 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Agreed. The FoW system definitely falls under "If it ain't broken..."


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317886] Thu, 25 April 2013 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Shepard: That's a total fog of war so to speak. It still enables tactics. But you have to be more careful as you can't see the whole map. That doesn't mean that you can't see anything. The radius will be quite big of what you actually can see (far enough to plan your moves). But again: You won't see the whole map at once. This way each map can also contain some interesting surprises.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317887] Thu, 25 April 2013 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Camfield

 
Messages:68
Registered:February 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Hey all,

If I can help in providing any perspective on JA/JA2 features to the JAF team, please shoot me a PM on the forum or send me an email. I'll email you my address via PM.

I'm nowhere near as hardcore as most of you guys here, but I hope that the team can make an awesome JA game which brings the franchise back into the limelight.

Cheers!
Chris
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317888] Thu, 25 April 2013 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Guys,

We need your help: Who are the main modders around here?
What I mean is... who are the brains behind the biggest mods and tools? Would like to contact them for some questions.

Best wishes,
Andreas

And Chris: Thanks for that! Forwarded it to Thomas already.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317889] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
Awesome! I really have to say the transparency from FC is very refreshing!

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 20:03] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317890] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Wow, I'm about as far from "hard core" as one could get and still enjoy JA2, and I think the idea of "spotting" enemies who are in nobody's LOS is horrible. I certainly wouldn't want it even on the "beer and pretzels" level at which I play.

As has been mentioned, the Silent Storm system was cool, with "?" silhouettes when something *might* have been heard by somebody. This allowed for ghost "sitings" and misidentification (oh, dear, blew up another civilian) of targets.

-- Mal
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317893] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
as for modders: my favorite part are the new traits aka STOMP which were done by sandro i believe.
also headrock did an awesome job on NCTH and HAM.

also there are a bunch of coders who do the little things.

whats really needed for to modding is an open structure with easy to access data, a tool to edit maps, and a plugin for blender or sth along those lines to generate new 3d models for weapons etc.

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 19:23] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317894] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3523
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Quote:
Guys,

We need your help: Who are the main modders around here?
What I mean is... who are the brains behind the biggest mods and tools? Would like to contact them for some questions.

Best wishes,
Andreas



JA2 Urban Chaos - I am one of the few "survivors" of the MOD Squad still active but Batman was the real brains behind the squad (he's been MIA for some time now). I took the lead in the later part when Batman went awol due to RL.

1.13 - Rowa21 is da big boss there

JA2 Night Ops + JA1/2 Metavira - Arulcish_Lion is the team's rep on Bear's Pit

JA2 Demise of Man - Callahan

JA2 Stracciatella - Tron did an awesome job cleaning up the source and porting it to a wide range of platforms. Not active so much lately.

JA2 Militia Factions - Will Gates

JA2 Arulco Revisited - JAsmine

AIMNAS - smeagol

Vengeance - DepressivesBrot says Scheinworld

Urban Chaos 1.13 - wil473

And of course there is an entire list of code wizards that made a lot of things possible. The most active recently is Flugente who's basically putting more features into the game than anyone thought it can be done. There are literally dozens of talents that contributed and I feel bad omitting someone but I can extract a list from their special group if needed. Some, like Headrock and Stomp, have been less active in latest months, but I guess they would be very much interested to help. And let's not forget sbobovyc who took upon himself the humongous task to make BIA playable.

PS: If I omitted anyone, feel free to add to the list, folks.

Chris Camfield
Hey all,

If I can help in providing any perspective on JA/JA2 features to the JAF team, please shoot me a PM on the forum or send me an email. I'll email you my address via PM.

I'm nowhere near as hardcore as most of you guys here, but I hope that the team can make an awesome JA game which brings the franchise back into the limelight.

Cheers!
Chris


Great to see you back... Gumpy! Very Happy

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 19:37] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317896] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
I can't take credit for Vengeance ... I think the original was scorp and V:R is largely schein's project, I'm just jumping around as technical advisor.
You definitely need to include wil473 though

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 19:28] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317897] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
Personally I very much like the idea of this fog of war.

But I think there absolutely should be possibilties to remove it... e.g. capture a satelite facility, buy intelligence data (from R.I.S.?), find a map, question a captured enemy soldiers...
The more happens in the game outside of combat, the better.
Plus you can always do a reconnaissance mission - just send someone in to sneak around.

Binoculars etc. would be great to. On this topic, I would love to see sniper scopes implemented like in 1.13. That is, increased sight range at the expense of lateral sight (a narrower cone)
Makes snipers so much more interesting and special, same as a supression system would do for machinegunners.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317899] Thu, 25 April 2013 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Thanks for the list!

The reason for the question is rather simple. We are right now discussing about giving some people even access to the tools or the game during the development (in that special case under NDA as you can imagine). Cause with 350k, as we said, we won't be able to realize modding tools as well, but if fans, especially JA die hard fans, feel that they could develop modding tools while we develop the game, that'd be an option.

It's not carved in stone, we are still discussing this. Please keep that in mind. We still need to figure out how to do this best. But it's an idea we have right now.


sardonic_wrath
Personally I very much like the idea of this fog of war.

But I think there absolutely should be possibilties to remove it... e.g. capture a satelite facility, buy intelligence data (from R.I.S.?), find a map, question a captured enemy soldiers...

That's an option we think about actually.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317900] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
JAFTeam
Thanks for the list!

The reason for the question is rather simple. We are right now discussing about giving some people even access to the tools or the game during the development (in that special case under NDA as you can imagine). Cause with 350k, as we said, we won't be able to realize modding tools as well, but if fans, especially JA die hard fans, feel that they could develop modding tools while we develop the game, that'd be an option.

It's not carved in stone, we are still discussing this. Please keep that in mind. We still need to figure out how to do this best. But it's an idea we have right now.


wow that sounds really great. :devilaugh:

in case of developing tools one guys made a whole lot of stuff for BIA.
maybe you can contact him as well: sbobovyc

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 20:07] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317901] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Is he around here as well or just at the back in action board? If so, we'll prbly contact him Smile
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317902] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
Aren't modding tools planed for the stretch goals ?
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317903] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
JAFTeam
Is he around here as well or just at the back in action board? If so, we'll prbly contact him Smile
both boards same name http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/317792/1.html first post of the thread

[Updated on: Thu, 25 April 2013 20:18] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317904] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Yes. But this would be a backup-solution. Plus we don't know yet what kind of tools we'll be able to provide. So this could open the process a bit more.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317905] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
Peal
Aren't modding tools planed for the stretch goals ?

at this point i am pretty sure that this campaign is not going to reach many stretch goals if any. IMHO its going to be a close call Sad
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #317906] Thu, 25 April 2013 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
Shadow21
Peal
Aren't modding tools planed for the stretch goals ?

at this point i am pretty sure that this campaign is not going to reach many stretch goals if any. IMHO its going to be a close call Sad

We will see. Jaggend alliance / turn based fans have gone trough loads of disappointments, so they are just cautious and have to be convinced. And I think FC is doing a great job at it.
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