Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » JA: Flashback (Solutions. Tips. Spoilers!) » Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318452] Thu, 02 May 2013 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Decado2

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2002
So...when is this major super update coming? And please don't tell me it was that humble bundle announcement.

After reading part of the reddit Q&A I'm only getting less positive. I hope they have a real plan to turn this around.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318458] Thu, 02 May 2013 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Decado2
So...when is this major super update coming? And please don't tell me it was that humble bundle announcement.

After reading part of the reddit Q&A I'm only getting less positive. I hope they have a real plan to turn this around.


Yeah, I sure hope the major push/update wasnt the humble bundle. I was assuming it was getting some old Sir-Tech people involved but now i dunno.

I'm supporting it because I think they mean well but obviously the original pitch sucked, which is why it isnt funded yet.

Been too long since a turn based JA even IF it only reaches its min goal of 350k IF its mod friendly just imagine what we can do in UNITY.

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318461] Thu, 02 May 2013 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Camfield

 
Messages:68
Registered:February 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
systemfehler

I think that is what is lacking the most. Those guys call themselves fans, and they may be, but there are fans and then there are fans. They might have played their few hundred hours of share but they are far away from the thousands of hours the really committed fan has put into the game playing and modding it.
A bit of a stretch, but if they were really committed fans, they wouldn't have had to register here but were registered since quite some time and maybe even have modded some of the game before.


But if that's the reasoning you're going to take, how are you ever going to be happy with anything anyone does commercially with JA, ever?

No one, NO ONE, is as committed to the game as you guys. Which I mean as a compliment, but I encourage you to try to have some perspective and to embrace people who say they're fans even if they weren't already posters here.

I know a guy at work who played JA2 and loved it and I trust that he really was a fan of the game (and I think he's backed the kickstarter), but I'm sure he hasn't put a thousand hours into playing JA2 and mods. And neither have I! Smile

Quote:

JA2 was a deep and complex game from the start and 1.13 did almost double that. Now JA2 came into being with a lot higher budget and a bigger team, and 1.13 was reached through love and dedication to the game and a century of experience actually playing.


I was doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations when someone said the budget for JA2 was $4 million. It might have been, but to be honest I do not know what the budget was. If it was that big that included a lot of non-salary costs.

I remembered 12 core team members (Ian, Linda, Shaun, Andrew, me, Mark, David, Kris, Scott, Joey, Eric, and Norm.) Plus I think that Derek Beland and Alex Meduna had to be brought on from Wizardry 8 to help. But, of those people - none of the programmers except Derek(?) and Alex had worked on a game before. The artists... I'm pretty sure Scott and Eric did, but I don't remember how much experience Joey and Norm did.

So that's a comparable team size. But another thing to consider is that we started JA2 from scratch. We didn't have an engine at all - we had to make our own "engine"!

These guys have made multiple turn-based games before and they're going to be using the Unity engine. So I think they have more development experience than we started with, plus an engine.

I think you're right - I don't think any developer can achieve what you guys have done with your mods. But as you said, if they make a good game which is moddable then you should be able to have your cake and eat it too.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318469] Thu, 02 May 2013 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Decado2
So...when is this major super update coming? And please don't tell me it was that humble bundle announcement.

It wasn't. However it's still WiP. Kinda hard to clear the details Wink
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318476] Thu, 02 May 2013 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Peal
Shanga in action is so awesome Very Happy


WORD! Big daddy has spoken!

For he is not the uncritical fanboy FC probably want, but the outspoken, straightforward critic it needs right now!
He is a watchful admin.
A voice of reason.
A hard assed veteran gamer! :taskmaster:

And we all love and respect him for that. :rulez:

No really, i can sign almost every word of his little pep talk, allthough i

☆★GL★☆
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318479] Thu, 02 May 2013 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3520
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Guys, don't take me wrong. I bear no ill-will toward FC. I want them to succeed and be our friends for next 100 years so we can work magic together.

As you might've noticed, the message wasn't "GTFO FC". It was "DO IT RIGHT, FC". It's a big difference.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318484] Thu, 02 May 2013 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
I was talking about this game with one of my Russian friends this morning, and his feeling was that FC made a mistake choosing the setting they did. With their initial presentation of the game story they put a big part of the JA community on the wrong side. FC have since told us more about it, and explained that the Russians aren't really the "stereotypical" 80's bad guys that was mine and others first impression. But still, this might explain why the Kickstarter is moving along so slow, there's not even a thread about it on ag.ru. Maybe FC should spend some time and effort on bringing back the interest of those hard core Jagged Alliance fans.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318501] Thu, 02 May 2013 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
No kickstarter in pre-production has a game play demo. That's not really how software development works. Best we can hope for would be animated screenshots which give you a clear indication of art style (see the two Torment animated screens)

Really cant understand all the hate, reading post above that these guys dont have 1000's of logged hours in 1.13 so they dont have a right to make a new JA. Well hate to break it to you but if that's the stance you're going to take we will never see another JA developed with any sort of community input.

I'm also not 100% convinced but I still have no problem tossing in a lousy 25+ bucks for the chance that of getting a moddable turn based JA in a real engine like UNITY. Could easily re-create all of 1.13 in a proper engine and not the joke that the JA2 engine is.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318505] Thu, 02 May 2013 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skott Karlsson

 
Messages:68
Registered:May 2001
Location: Oldsmar, FL. USA
I'm curious about something. This talk of FC picking the wrong time to do a KS project. I get the reasoning some feel they should wait and try again when they have something to show but what I'm wondering is if they did say postpone this KS wouldn't that make them look bad as well? I'm no expert. I know enough to know what a KS is and that's about it but I'm thinking if I saw somebody start one and then put it off, even for a short while, I would be highly suspicious of that. It wouldn't make me trust them more. Especially if its about JA. I'm not so trusting as it is. Given the past history of the series since JA2. Which is no fault of FC.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318508] Thu, 02 May 2013 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Skott Karlsson
I'm curious about something. This talk of FC picking the wrong time to do a KS project. I get the reasoning some feel they should wait and try again when they have something to show but what I'm wondering is if they did say postpone this KS wouldn't that make them look bad as well? I'm no expert. I know enough to know what a KS is and that's about it but I'm thinking if I saw somebody start one and then put it off, even for a short while, I would be highly suspicious of that. It wouldn't make me trust them more. Especially if its about JA. I'm not so trusting as it is. Given the past history of the series since JA2. Which is no fault of FC.


I talked to them about canceling etc, main reason they don't is because getting coverage from the press after a canceled kick starter would apparently be really hard.

They still got 21 days to sway peopel to pledge Razz
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318513] Thu, 02 May 2013 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
No matter how well planned the second kickstarter is, cancelling the first will doom the project. A second kickstarter would have to be utterly stunning in order to recapture the hype/elation/press coverage of the first and it would mean that FC has to risk investing funds into a project with no guarantee of success, it would be safer for the company as a whole to have their pre-production team working on contract work / a publisher backed franchise.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318515] Thu, 02 May 2013 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3520
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

I don't care if they played 1 minute of 1.13, tbh. They promised they'll involve the community into decision making, no? So that's our role.

But I am really curious how they see this community involvement. I'd be happy with that plan if nothing else. Do they have a plan? What parts of the game we have a say on? What kind of access we'll modders receive? Documents, tech info? Are they waiting for us to go to Denmark and type the code in?

If at least that would be outlined in a clear plan, that would be a major step forward.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318517] Thu, 02 May 2013 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Decado2

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2002
Some kickstarters have been successful after second runs, but admittedly, they've been smaller projects.

After reading the Reddit Q&A, more than anything, I'm leery of the attitude displayed by FC. I just feel like they think what they've shown (nothing) is good enough and if there are still JA fans they will/should support the project. Or that their previous experience and Space Hulk gameplay demo should ease all fears. All despite community feedback indicating the contrary.

At the very least they should have had some sort of working relationship set-up with some prominent mod community members. Ideally, as many have mentioned, bringing in some mercs of their own from the previous JA team (or even some who worked on other major tactical titles from back in the day). The thing is, those initiatives would have had to been in place beforehand and if there are doing anything along those lines, it looks like it is happening rather last minute. /rant
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318518] Thu, 02 May 2013 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JP'TR

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Vortexdr

Really cant understand all the hate, reading post above that these guys dont have 1000's of logged hours in 1.13 so they dont have a right to make a new JA.


Oh please relax a bit, what you write here is for sure not the point of the conversation here. And there is NO hate!

I'm sure we all want that kickstarter happen good as possible, there is just no reason to be against it. Wink

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318521] Thu, 02 May 2013 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Decado2

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2002
Interesting article on kickstarters, with several interviewee participants:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/191521/crowdfunding_one_year_later.php

Final page of the article has detailed suggestions for kickstarter campaigns.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 21:08] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318523] Thu, 02 May 2013 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Shanga

As you might've noticed, the message wasn't "GTFO FC". It was "DO IT RIGHT, FC". It's a big difference.


I agree on the DO IT RIGHT part. However, maybe its also a little much to ask from us that FC should do everything PERFECTLY from the start and deliver a perfect product from the very beginning that satisfies all fans equally and has all features one could wish for.

Remember when JA2 was released? Sure, the demolevel was great and got many people excited, but JA2 itself was far from perfect from the start, buggy as hell, with many features not properly implemented, which also weren

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 21:18] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318526] Thu, 02 May 2013 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3520
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@Decado2 - thanks for the link. Here's a quote from Chris Roberts that sums up what I was trying to convey to FC and I hope they understood:

Quote:

CR: I think it sort of depends on how you approach it. I looked at everything and I said,

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 21:28] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318533] Thu, 02 May 2013 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Inukshuk

 
Messages:86
Registered:September 2009
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Shanga
Beside that, Elite and those other remakes never had the failure history JA has. And so many broken promises.

That is the biggest point here. I hope they can "in good old rapid prototyping style", do a better pitch on KS by adding more visual content. I think now is the exact right moment to motivate them. Also I will do an video, but I have to take some time and right now I'm very busy. Maybe over the weekend.

Originally Posted By: Shanga
And despite all that, I am to trust AGAIN in nice words?

Yes you should, because this time it's different, I hope you can see this somewhat.


Nicely said, Peal. I agree though I can respect where Shanga is coming from. No doubt the FC team has played enough Ja1.13 and lurked around the BP enough to know how crusty things can get at times, but all the while aiming at creating some amazing new things out of this old 1950's Chevy (liked that analogy a lot...having spent a fair bit of time in Havana).

One thing the FC people need to know is that the hardest core modders may well be the hardest to convince (and particularly their Big Daddy Shanga) but they are worth it. However, I hope they don't forget that there are also lots of us here like me, and that those people like me realize that the concerns of real modders are not representative of the concerns of many obsessive 'casual' gamers, who do after all play an important role en masse. I've played the game for thousands of hours since the demo came out way back when. I've lurked on these boards for years, posting only occasionally and often revealing an embarrassing lack of facility in messing with the files and mods. I'm older than most here...but probably not all.

Whether or not they could have had better timing or preparation in a perfect (if predictable is the same thing as perfect) world, it's obvious that FC has their Nordic hearts in the right place (which is what matters most around here with respect to JA) and a pretty decent assembly of the right kind of talent and tools. If they are saying what we want to hear here it is because they understand what that is in the first place. And IMO they obviously believe it. Whether they can make it work out well or not I don't know, but I'm happy to pledge good deal more than I'd pay for a game on the shelf just to give them the chance to fail. Maybe financial need is genuinely such a big deal for some people that they can't even promise fifty bucks they may never need to pay just to give them a shot, but for most of us that's not true. I think it's crazy for anyone who really loves this game not to pledge something, but of course, pledging the kind of effort and love that a real Modder has to offer is a bigger deal and they are of course a tad more reluctant to commit.

I want to see these guys take a shot, the same way I want to see modders like Flugente, JAsmine (AR), Smeagol, old Scorp, Sandro, T-Bird, Headrock...all the others, take a shot with their mods. Hell, I'd probably have have given them a few bucks too for their mods if they'd asked in a forum like KS but as has been explored elsewhere when others have suggested compensating modders, that would probably spoil fun around here.

Good luck FC. You've got my bucks.

And BTW...why the Hell am I stuck with the same lame online name NJ since Day 1 I signed up for this forum, and keep getting refused requests to change it to something I didn't choose in 10 seconds?? 'Inukshuk' please Wink
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318558] Fri, 03 May 2013 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
Hi all,


Long time lurker and 1.13 fan here. I found this conversation very interesting and wanted to add a few thoughts. Like many fans I am no modder but have probably played more JA2 than any other single title in my life. The modding community are 90% responsible for giving this game the legs it has (I recently re-played vanilla UB and it was far too easy and unworthy to repeat). To be clear, I have also pledged a relatively large amount and may increase this if FC deliver. What I can't help but feel however is that there are too many unknowns about their KS campaign to pledge more.

Where's the game?
The first question is where is the game? They launched this campaign too early. I have heard their response that they want to make sure they're on the right track with the fans etc as their reason for not having more already but I do feel they had plenty of feedback already to go on to be at the pre-alpha stage they're at now. 15 years of JA2 community alive and well with plenty of evidence about how the game could have progressed if you interpret what were the successful mods with the community. Feedback from BIA. Response/reviews to XCOM. It's all there if they wanted to look.

Where's the commitment and fore-planning?
I can't help but conclude that the real issue is that the small studio was actually still needing to spend all their important time on their current projects, and JA:F has not had the attention it deserves as yet. That's fair enough - they need to pay their bills. But the it makes the timing of their launch look cynical as others have pointed out. The net result is they are clearly making it up as they go along. They're asking polls about what should be added, stretch goals and merc priorities... I mean this stuff should all have been decided before launch. They (should) know technically what can/cannot be easier or less easy to achieve. If fans decide everything, then they will end up making promises they can't fulfill.

Where's the leadership and inspiration?
A more established name in the field would have stamped their mark on the game and said "I know JA, played it, designed it, modded it (etc) this is what is going to work in 2013." They don't seem to be demonstrating leadership on their project and there's very little enthusiasm rubbing off from their updates (to me). It may be because they've not worked on the title, but the reason Chris Roberts, Chris Avellone, Mark Jacobs, Richard Garriott, Brian Fargo, etc all could raise millions is because even if they've had misses (and god knows they've had them) they had the self-belief to promise they could knock it out the park and the experience of what went wrong with their misses (too much publisher interference?) to lend confidence to the fanbase. A well-run KS campaign also reflects their ability to manage a well-run game project (and SC and CU had their share of hiccups but the ability to pull through and reflect on those problems actually builds confidence). I don't know a lot about game development, but I do want the devs to project the aura that "we know what to do" rather than have me thinking "jeez these guys should be doing X Y and Z"

How are you appealing beyond the existing fanbase?
Another serious repercussion is that with no product to show off, FC can only appeal to the relatively small amount of people who already are very familiar with the JA franchise and can't appeal to a wider demographic of current gamers by wowing them with something they could believe in. Do you really think all the people who backed Star Citizen played WC1-5/Privateer? Tons hadn't but when Chris Roberts showed off his working demo, he got a huge number of new fans who'd only known the games through reputation to believe. That's the power of launching when you're ready.

What can be done now?
Ok I've been really harsh and its not my intention to shoot anyone down. So here's what I think needs to be done to 'get it right' now they've committed to launching and the campaign is underway.

1) Involve the community more. Not just polls about what next. But you need to get the WASTE model from Wasteland up and running in detail posthaste (they also use the Unity engine, learn from them). There is some excellent talent here. Get them excited by saying how they'll be involved. How much is the artwork going to cost you doing it all in-house? Well outsource it to the fans and save some money and get them involved.
2) Yes I've read that the old developers of the originals and modders can't publicly commit to working on the title. But they could publicly endorse your project? You could officially instate them as project consultants (not employees)? You should have got them in before because your track record is so thin. There's still time to get them in now.
3) Working demo (or video). Should have been done before but it's not too late now.
4) Don't make things up as you go along. Get all the available feedback you can then plan everything between now and the closing date (including stretch goals) and hint what you have planned rather than keep saying "it's still undecided" "we're not sure yet" "we want to get fan feedback on this" etc.

I assume you've already got the publicity plans in place so keep at it on that front. The number one weakness of FC is your track record (aka thin CV). It's also harmed by association with bitComposer and BIA (not your fault, but it is there), and other than a working demo that blows everyone away, the next best thing to overcome that is fans, modders, old designers, etc. demonstrating they have faith in you, but you have to give them something so that they can believe.

Good luck Full Control.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318620] Sat, 04 May 2013 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:255
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
- Deleted by my self, because nothing of relevance -

[Updated on: Sat, 04 May 2013 01:42] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318665] Sat, 04 May 2013 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
HOLY shit on Pancakes.... Someone just took the 10K pledge... 0.0
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318666] Sat, 04 May 2013 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wspek

 
Messages:16
Registered:May 2011
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
I just saw it. We need more pledges like that. It's a good thing too, because we only had 2.300 this day.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318688] Sun, 05 May 2013 01:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1015
Registered:January 2009
They should host another AmA specifically for JAF, but this time they should do it here. They still have time to convince people they are the right people to do the job and spread the word amonst people who care about it.

Although this had me doubting how much they

[Updated on: Sun, 05 May 2013 02:14] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318699] Sun, 05 May 2013 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
batanen

 
Messages:24
Registered:May 2013
Off_Topic
They should host another AmA specifically for JAF, but this time they should do it here.

Can't you ask your detailed why/what questions here now? Bear's Pit has >10000 users (not sure how many are actually active). Not even half of them are yet supporting the Kickstarter (some supporters must be elsewhere too). So, I would assume FC is interested in trying to answer your questions where they're are able to. But please remember end-budget determines what they can afford to do (you can ask what we get for $350000 and which is probably left out; though strecthed goals might come later to answer this.). For example, I would say if they barely got $350000, "easy/user-friendly/advantaged" mod support cannot be guaranteed. So if still in doubt, ask away.

Off_Topic

Although this had me doubting how much they

[Updated on: Sun, 05 May 2013 09:36] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318703] Sun, 05 May 2013 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nekator

 
Messages:20
Registered:May 2013
An imo interesting excerpt about the problems they face with the Kickstarter funding.

Full Interview

i think it is rather understandable from both sides, the JA community has one to many dissapointments, for which FC has to take the fall now, though they really are the best chance we have to see a modern version of JA, which stays as true to the original as possible.

So please, if anyone can find the trust, help these guys and make a new Jagged Alliance possible Smile

Quote:

Tell us a little about the experience with crowd-funding with Kickstarter. Would Full Control consider running another campaign in the future?

It has been as hard as we thought it would be in terms of manpower. We have 3 people only doing the Kickstarter and we've worked a month at least on the preparations before starting. Running a Kickstarter is not for those thinking it
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318705] Sun, 05 May 2013 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethica

 
Messages:40
Registered:September 2009
from the KS updates:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts

Quote:
And - this is important to say - we are making an entertainment product and not a simulator. We are with Flashback concentrating on the story part, the role playing of mercenaries having personalities and the game being fun to play. We are not! going down the ultra-realistic path and trying to make a tactical combat simulator. Flashback is not the Arma of turn-based RPG action.


I would literally jump for joy if someone could mod a turn-based system into arma2/3, because the insane amount of (user made) content and realism it has. 15 by 15 km maps, anyone? proper ballistics?

Quote:
So if we in the story have a plausible reason to have experimental and ultra limited uranium depleted ammunition as part of the story - then its going to be in there. It is not science fiction - but still fiction.


sci-fi should be an option in the "new game" menu, like JA2 had.

Quote:
The inventory and the overall user interface has to be a joy to play as well. While we believe in inventory management being part of the game (who can carry 10 MG
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318710] Sun, 05 May 2013 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pambam

 
Messages:18
Registered:May 2013
Hey,

every detail of the game cannot be right for everyone.
As FC stated - the modders will get the opportunity to make things more complex.

I read all the stuff here and watched the video of FC again - these guys are good.
Do we really want a JA:F?

There is a great idea to support the campaign which can only be done by veterans.

Imagine, you create a short video (5 - 10 min.) which shows (+ perhaps voice commentary, enthusiastic, entertaining like a trailer) how great JA2 is. This could include nice quotes from cool and funny mercenaries (and Elliot), combat, tactical layer and NPC + story?
But what is it, what makes this game so addictive? That can only be experienced if you played it for a longer time. That is the problem. Younger folks don't know it, won't do it so they will not pledge. To convince them, you have to go like this: JA2 is still great, look how old it is, how many details it had, how cool it was - lets do something better with modern technology which defines the genre again.

A second video from FC will follow, where they express as a commentary what was great in JA - what they will use again.

Someone with experience in cutting could help to make this video not boring at all - what mostly happens if less experienced cutters have something to say. Unfortunately, I am not this person.

But we all can do the "script" for the video - which scenes should be included, etc. and someone has to grab them.

I will post this idea also on the FC forum. Perhaps it is not so bad. What do you think?
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318712] Sun, 05 May 2013 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Funny how much FC hate the JA2 inventory system, but they are not alone in that, it seems. I wonder what game has an inventory system that people regard as "better?"

-- Mal
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318713] Sun, 05 May 2013 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
malthaussen
Funny how much FC hate the JA2 inventory system, but they are not alone in that, it seems. I wonder what game has an inventory system that people regard as "better?"


Well, the original system in JA2 was very simplistic.
Personally I like the 1.13 system a lot. It has fixed slots and ones that you could swap around. But perhaps it's a bit much for a beginner...
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318714] Sun, 05 May 2013 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3532
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Heh, they hate it? Where did you get that from? (I do understand that some of the posters on KS don't like it, but then... some of them are posting downright hideous suggestions, so I ignore those).


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318715] Sun, 05 May 2013 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
@Flugente: they say so in the Tacticular Cancer interview: "In general the inventory in JA2 was/is clumsy and annoying to use."

I was also disturbed to discover in the Kickstarter comments section that Thomas apparently was unaware of the sector inventory button. Now, that's a confidence shaker. He says after all these years he's still learning stuff, but that's a pretty big thing to miss, wouldn't you say?

Hell, I'm still learning stuff. I accidentally corrupted a save file with JAPE the other night, and discovered that Sir-Tech put in an invisible inventory item called "nada." Takes up an inventory slot, but there is nada there. Funny guys.

-- Mal

[Updated on: Sun, 05 May 2013 18:02] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318717] Sun, 05 May 2013 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3532
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Sorry, I seem to be partially blinded - can you link this interview to me?


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318718] Sun, 05 May 2013 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2002
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
In the comments on the KS page:
"FC"
More specifically on inventory

For inventory I always thought it very annoying to have to run around after a fight was over to re-discover and pick up drops. And then always having to re-shuffle things around between members afterwards. Example - you pick a locker and is has 4 types of ammo. Just figuring out who can use what ammo clip and re-distribute it was a chore. It would be so much easier to have some kind of "squad view" outside combat when opening a container, where you can then drag an item from the locker view to the person who needs a given item. Maybe even highlighting the specific gun very clearly that could use a given ammo clip to guide the player.

But thats simply one little detail that I want us to explore and try to improve upon. There are most certainly other annoyances that can be rectified. And no matter what, we want to look at things and being able to improve upon them during development. Hopefully together with the guys who have spend possibly thousands of hours with the game and deep down know every little annoying corner of the game.


Then other commenters explaines that the sector inventory existed and FC had to admit having missed this feature in JA2 ...
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318722] Sun, 05 May 2013 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Quote:
damn. Something new for me even after all those years. Thanks for pointing me in that direction, because its major annoying (both not knowing about it and having had the frustration every time playing). Just shows the requirement for better UI on that part


Quote:
Creator Full Control about 4 hours ago

Heh, Andreas didn't find it as it seems. Thomas is using it actually. Guess Andreas got it a bit wrong what he said @Stephen Smile


Too be fair sector inventory kind of hidden and unless you know it exists or go through the massive hotkey lists it is easy to miss
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318723] Sun, 05 May 2013 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
There's some very amusing drama on the KS page going down right now, someone looking for attention, and getting it. I should make it clear that I don't think that's what KS projects are for, and will decrease my pledge because of it. :armsfolded:

jk. If handled correctly, I'll increase my pledge instead, I like being amused.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318725] Sun, 05 May 2013 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
batanen

 
Messages:24
Registered:May 2013
R@S
There's some very amusing drama on the KS page going down right now, someone looking for attention, and getting it. I should make it clear that I don't think that's what KS projects are for, and will decrease my pledge because of it. :armsfolded:

jk. If handled correctly, I'll increase my pledge instead, I like being amused.

Thanks R@S for your comment! Should we link your reply to there? Smile
EDIT: Now after that drama we're back under $145000.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 May 2013 19:51] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318727] Sun, 05 May 2013 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
Nah, why feed the troll and give him what he wants, nay?
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318728] Sun, 05 May 2013 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Some people are weird sometimes.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318731] Sun, 05 May 2013 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
I still don't understand how could U miss sector inv?! And after all those years?!

I was all against that Shanga shit and all that but... I admit I haven't read all your interviews and stuff, but who knows what else U don't know about Jagged Alliance?!


I don't even agree with the community... I think they won't too much from a small and "new" team like U. I think that they won't heaven and hell (or whatever, in my country OVCE I NOVCE) and that that is wrong, although expected after all those years with nothing from JAGGED ALLIANCE an after Shitcomposer SHIT IN ACTION but still...


Personally, I would be happy with JA2 1.13 with better AI and ability to see armor and gear on mercs/soldiers (like Bios LOBOT project)... that's all I need. Don't need shine new graphics (Hired Guns is enough, don't need theatrics like Mass Effect or I don't know what...
Just give me JAGGED ALLIANCE 2 1.13 with great AI, "finished LOBOT project", movable thanks and floors... and, map and item editor, of course. That is all.


But if U don't know about sector inv, well... It's like U don't know how to aim (make cursor smaller).
Instead of demo I would rather like to know what really U know about JA2 and how big fans are you really?


I can understand that you are after the money also and that JA game is your big chance and everything (i have somebody very close who is workin' in small game studio and how hard it is and fucked up), but this project is big... Jagged Alliance is like true undead or something... Fuck Elder Scrolls or Baldur's Gate, Diablo and even Fallout 1 and 2... JA2 is above that! Why? Because of people like Flugente (who is like god in coding and shit) or RoWa21 and others... Even me who played the game more that I can count and is constantly on this forum and constantly working my own stuff on new builds, even have core stuff in my head and written for new JA game...

Fuck up this and who knows what will your future look like... Just do as I wrote before and it will be good enough start.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318733] Sun, 05 May 2013 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
lockie

 
Messages:3831
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
I think you should calm down a wee bit , young sir !


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