Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » Community Wishlist for JA:F
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320274] Thu, 23 May 2013 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3523
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Sure scope, we'll get more organized. For now I haven't waved the ban hammer at all, just letting the people enjoy this party, we can do the clean-up after.


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320284] Thu, 23 May 2013 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
Speaking of scopes... Very Happy

I really hope that they'll use the 1.13 model for scopes - so obviously old iron sights provide the base, reflex sights improve accuracy a tiny bit but aiming speed spectacularly, and then longer scopes increase accuracy at the cost of time and tunnel vision.

But on top of that, I hope there'll be different grades of glass - maybe in an expansion or as our dear modders' duty - where some scopes with good glass reduce glare and work well even at night, while others might increase your viewing range but cut out so much light you'll not get a lot of accuracy bonus particularly at night. Something like that. I know it's probably not linear enough for the Diablo 3 +eleventeengazilliion-to-aim crowd but I hope the options to tweak these variables will be available for modders.

[Updated on: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:20] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320318] Thu, 23 May 2013 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sean10mm

 
Messages:38
Registered:February 2007
The CIA was COMPLETELY INSANE during the Cold War. I'd love it if JA;F wrote the CIA to be even half as nuts as they really were. Some examples:

Turning cats into SPY DRONES

Involuntary experiments with LSD to invent MIND CONTROL

Trying to kill Castro with...EXPLODING CIGARS? KILLER FUNGUS? THE MAFIA?

And they really used code names like MIDNIGHT CLIMAX and FAMILY JEWELS (Google them for a good laugh.)
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320319] Thu, 23 May 2013 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
We know how nuts they were. And again: Just because you start working for the CIA that doesn't mean you'll do so for the whole game. Why? Guess why. You will find out. Earlier within the game than people might think.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320322] Thu, 23 May 2013 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Two things I'd like to see in the game: a Sikh merc (plenty of opportunity for bad puns, there), and a Gurkha. Getting proper voice acting might be a challenge, though.

I have a friend who claims to have worked with a CIA cowboy in the period in question. He says they had to stake him out in the desert to teach him some manners. Something it would be lovely if the player could do...

-- Mal

[Updated on: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:57] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320323] Thu, 23 May 2013 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sean10mm

 
Messages:38
Registered:February 2007
malthaussen
Two things I'd like to see in the game: a Sikh merc (plenty of opportunity for bad puns, there), and a Gurkha. Getting proper voice acting might be a challenge, though.

-- Mal


Well, it's not like the accents in the original games were realistic, either.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320324] Thu, 23 May 2013 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sean10mm

 
Messages:38
Registered:February 2007
JAFTeam
We know how nuts they were. And again: Just because you start working for the CIA that doesn't mean you'll do so for the whole game. Why? Guess why. You will find out. Earlier within the game than people might think.


I think you misunderstood me a little. I'm not worried about how you'll write the story. I just want cat drones, exploding cigars, mafia hit men and LSD in my game. :diabolical:
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320331] Thu, 23 May 2013 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
At least drugs will make it. LSD totally makes sense of course.
Exploding Cigars? Uh oh. That'd have been some cool CGI render-sequence for a million or so, wouldn't it? Hehehehehe.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320367] Thu, 23 May 2013 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ownator

 
Messages:16
Registered:August 2008
Dont really know much about the project in development, but i always though a few cool things would be:

- Various factions that may join or turn on you. Obviously needs real dialogues, not the existing silly ones. Something like fallout 1&2 dialogues, that require using a merc with a specific skill etc.

- Forcing a surrender from the enemies by killing most of them or badly injuring most of them (basically a team morale rating that decrease with each kill and injury - also affected by reputation of your mercs). Then ransoming those guys, executing them publicly in a town, have them work for you as militia (like remnants of a defeated faction) or mine workers, or selling them to an evil doctor that conducts human experiments >Smile

- Targeting individual body parts:
- one arm crippled - cant use two handed weapons
- both arms crippled - cant use any weapons
- one leg crippled - slowed down a lot
- both leg crippled - only manage to crawl one tile a turn (can still shoot etc)

- Reputation of your mercs. Kills and quests affect your reputation all the way up to legendary (heroic or evil) which affects how NPCs respond to you and how soon the enemies surrender to you.

- Gladiator games in some kind of a way. For example: a faction leader wants to test your team, so he puts you and a team of an opposing faction prisoners in an arena (large building with boxes and other structural cover) and watches you fight to death. When you win he joins your cause or demands more games against stronger opponents. Many ideas are open here.

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320376] Fri, 24 May 2013 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
JAFTeam
Regarding the story concerns some still have:

The CIA betrayed people who they hired. And so did the Russians as well. Does anyone really believe that we, from Denmark, would do a fucking Call of Duty story with Americans being the ones putting their dicks into a gloryhole to get sucked off by Russians? Guys. Srsly. No side was good or bad during the cold war. Everyone just lied. And that's why you'll be on your own in JA:F, fighting for your own thing. Doing missions for those who pay. Bringing those to fall who deserve to fall.

This is why I love you guys so much.

That and the Livestream where your answer to a similar question was 'We are not going to make a Russian-killing simulator'.

And now enjoy a well-deserved holiday!
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320378] Fri, 24 May 2013 00:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whoami

 
Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk
Congratulations for you guys.

I want to say something. Now everyone is happy, and it seems that there is still plenty of time - 1.5 years! But this is not true when it comes to the development of tactical strategy. The real tactical strategy, you know.
I'm not talking about games for tablet computers, where the AI makes decisions like this: "take cover - shoot - call for backup - flanking"

If you make such a game, it is no different from "BiA", "Hired guns", etc. There each soldier acts as Rambo on the battlefield - he is the one and only thinks about himself. He has no idea about the commander's intent. These games will soon get bored when the player learned the basic tactics of the AI and he gets a good weapon.

I'm talking about the actions of the AI groups. Each group has a local order. If order is flanking, they are not engaged in a firefight with the player until they have accomplished an order!
AI must have a plan, the number of choices of plans should be plenty. In this case, the player will always be surprised by AI, the unpredictability of tactical action!

__________________


Chess ... How many years have passed ... 2000 years. In this game, cool graphics? No. Maybe a bunch of weapons and equipment? Not noticeable. Or maybe there is a lot of sectors with zombies, abandoned bunkers, treasures and genetic bloodthirsty monsters? So why is it so popular so far?

Please, please, please, please, please ... please hire a professional AI programmer, while you still have time! I respect you, I know that you are professionals. But this is a special area of knowledge. Let's hire a guy like Jeff Orkin (creator of F.E.A.R. AI).

All of these new sectors, the golden weapons, new mercenaries - modders can do it. But modders will not significantly change AI after the release of the game.
If the AI in the game will be stupid, "Jagged Alliance: Flashback" turns into another "BiA" or "Hired guns". After all, this is a strategic game that requires thinking. The player needs to think how to deceive the AI, the player should not just drop off the edge of the sector and stupidly clean up the entire map.

I'm afraid that being in the pursuit of new sectors, golden guns, statues, memories of Ivan and quests we forget about the most important - strategy and tactics!

good luck

[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 01:45] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320379] Fri, 24 May 2013 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
whoami
"take cover - shoot - call for backup - flanking"
Why so much derision, I wish the JA2 AI was that clever Razz


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320506] Fri, 24 May 2013 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wolfmann

Messages:2
Registered:February 2008
Location: Norway
Okay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?

Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.

But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.

Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)

I just loved that aspect of BiA.

From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.


So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn Razz
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320513] Fri, 24 May 2013 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fulipes

 
Messages:5
Registered:May 2013
Location: Finland
What I want to see in JA:F
- Full turn based action while in combat
- Simple interfaces for inventories and communications
- Good camera movability
- Simple but good looking graphics (too detailed graphics often lead to a mess where you cant tell which pixels you should take into consideration when planning movement)
- Gameplay that encourages in planning in advance, I want to be forced to think before i give out orders
- Difficulty settings that are based on enemies reaction times, skills, battle sense (AI) and equipment (as opposed to enemies health, lethality, quantity or intervals of save games) A headshot on a head not wearing a helmet should always be fatal, no matter how high a difficulty
- Walls and doors I can shoot through
- Map editor

What I dont want to see
- Another unfinished game (for which I backed alot of money)
- Logistics. I want to play a mercenary game, not worry about transports of items
- Messy plot implementation, where I often have no idea what to do
- Another linear shooter game
- Cutscenes
- Choices being made for me
- Comic Sans
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320517] Fri, 24 May 2013 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whoami

 
Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk
DepressivesBrot
whoami
"take cover - shoot - call for backup - flanking"
Why so much derision, I wish the JA2 AI was that clever Razz


Keyword: coordinated team action.

Example: Drassen mine.

Step 1: map creator sets a key locations on the map to AI:
- Good cover
- Good places for shooting
- Positions for the order "ambush"
- ...
- Strategically important objects on the map

Step 2: AI tries to capture the sector:
- Created 2 groups by number strategic objects (head of the mine and the church), and one group for the distraction. All groups - from all sides the sector (assuming that they have taken this position crawling before the battle).
- A group of distractions is moving into the center of maps, other groups waiting at the edge of the map
- A group of distraction engages in battle, other groups are moving towards their objectives - strategic targets. These groups are located in the "assault" mode - when engaging the fire contact with the player, they continue to move towards the goal
Group distraction is in the "defense" mode - the soldiers take cover as well and do not protrude. Their goal - to survive as long as possible.
- Micro AI acts within each group. Some of the men suppresses the the firing points ("machine gunner"), part of the soldiers using grenades, rocket launchers and mortars ("heavy weapons"), part of the soldiers using sniper rifles ("sniper"), and part of the group is moving forward ("stormtroopers")

That is, group level = "Macro AI", the level of fighters = "Micro AI". Both AI operate simultaneously, the priority is "Macro AI" (order of the commander).

- For each group, there are algorithms for Action: "distraction", "storm the object", "flank attack", "ambush", etc.
"Ambush": If the AI decides to abort the attack and make an ambush, then two thirds of the fighters takes cover, and third soldiers lure the player, shooting and running away in the direction of the ambush.
"flank attack": third group of fighters firing from cover, the rest 2/3 part of the soldiers making a flank attack.
... etc.
AI behavior of algorithms should be a lot - that the player is constantly surprised by the unpredictability of AI.
The current algorithm may be selected by a random number.

- After reaching the strategically important points of the sector is a "diversion": the elimination of the chief of the mine or father Walker. The player did not see the main group, engaging in a battle with the distraction group.
__________________

We tried to do that in JA2. As a result, one elite soldier did move for 3-5 minutes, calculating the tiles around him and analyzing the cover, the location of his teammates, the location of visible enemies, the location of his teammates visible enemies, the type of weapon in the hands of a visible enemy, the presence in the inventory of the visible enemy heavy weapons, the ratio of the number of our soldiers to enemy fighters in the sector, etc.

In the end, we settled on a simple tactic: some soldiers detect targets, others shoot "on a tip" of machine guns, grenade launchers, sniper rifles. Throw in the "gray targets" grenades, etc. But it's stupid, it's quickly bored.

"Therapist" worked on AI in our team, and he said that we need to mark on the map the key things for AI. In this way made bots for CS, and modern shooters.
Maps format of JA2 need to completely remodel to add annotations to the AI, a lot of testing new AI ... This is a job for the "paid professionals", not for enthusiasts.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 12:01] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320618] Fri, 24 May 2013 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Totally agree, having a state of the art AI probably one of the most important things to me since its something that modders will have a terrible time improving.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320653] Fri, 24 May 2013 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinr

 
Messages:12
Registered:April 2012
A suggestion about economy inspired by JA1:

You have a drug plantation and you can make a profit from it by selling the raw product/materials. But you can also get more profit by sending the raw materials to the drug refinery, allowing you sell a refined product for the bigger price. Of course, if have the refinery but not the plantations, the former is basically useless.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320782] Sat, 25 May 2013 15:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cosmo Bozo

 
Messages:17
Registered:May 2013
Raphe
Okay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?

Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.

But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.

Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)

I just loved that aspect of BiA.

From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.


So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn Razz


Agree with this, possibly BIA's best feature, you could make them look like professional soldiers, or like an A-team style rag tag bunch, or any mix of the two..

[Updated on: Sat, 25 May 2013 15:43] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320789] Sat, 25 May 2013 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Raphe
Okay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?

Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.

But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.

Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)

I just loved that aspect of BiA.

From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.


So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn Razz


Yes, though BIA didn't have bikinis, which was a major fault.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320807] Sat, 25 May 2013 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arkard

 
Messages:18
Registered:January 2004
Location: Finland
I want Gus Tarballs calling me Woody.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320810] Sat, 25 May 2013 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3832
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Hmm , you like a woody ehh ? Wink


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320832] Sat, 25 May 2013 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3523
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Nostalgia or not, each time I finished a Deadly Games mission I wondered when they'd let me shoot the annoying old guy in the face. ^^


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320929] Sun, 26 May 2013 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinr

 
Messages:12
Registered:April 2012
No hard limit on how many mercenaries you can recruit. The few things that should prevent you from hiring everyone is the lack of money and bad blood between mercs.

[Updated on: Sun, 26 May 2013 20:47] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #321060] Tue, 28 May 2013 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jimmious

 
Messages:10
Registered:March 2007
Location: Greece
Well when it comes to a wishlist and since we're talking about a JA2 reboot, probably we need to establish what we believe made JA2 so good for us.

For me it was the sheer amount of options and possibilities.
Always felt like I can basically do anything I want, approach a "mission" in any way I want and in any order I like too.
In JA2 you're able to attack day or night, guns blazing or stealthily, boom holes onto walls or cut fences, climb roofs or open doors, get inside buildings and cover or fight in the open...anything basically.

That's what I really want to have in JA:F.
All the options and possible tactics for me to choose from!
I guess that translates as having lots of different weapons/gear/tools/mercs/enemies/sectors.

Also VERY importantly NO LINEARITY. I have my map and after the "intro battle" where I go and what I do is completely up to me. If I'm crazy I'll go straight to Alma or I'll get all of Drassen at once(with 1.13 counter-attack it's suicide basically Razz), it's MY choice!

I want these feelings again Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 28 May 2013 11:10] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322172] Fri, 28 June 2013 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
R@S
We haven't talked about loot and enemy inventory, so here's my suggestion on that:

A quick and easy to use loot system, making it easy to sort through the loot and pick up what you want. If you have a car, maybe have an "Add to trunk" button in the GUI.

Enemies should drop all their inventory when dying, no half-arsed probability stuff here, give me mah loot!


Shanga
- Proper scavenging and repair

I am sick of BiA's constant quest for new armor. JA2's "repair armor" thing might not have been the most realistic feature, but there's a fine line between micromanagement and turning the whole game into "Barbie needs new clothes".

By scavenging I mean the ability to break down a weapon into parts of various quality and use those to repair damaged equipment. I don't need and I have no use for a weapon cache of 200 AKMs when I can carry 10. But having a working trigger group or barrel when you are dying to repair your weapon might be fun.


...


Not if weight restrictions right + scavenging is put into place. Yea, you get 50 weapons, but how much you would actually be able to carry on your mercs?

But instead of hauling around a truckload of weapons you could just scavenge the parts you need.




I have opinions on both sides of this. Obviously it is most realistic for 10 guys who are shooting at you with AKs to once dead produce at least 8 AKs, not just a pack of bubblegum.
On the flip side struggling for good guns and bothering to maintain them becomes irrelevant because you
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322173] Fri, 28 June 2013 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Just in case you are interested, militia is now equipable in 1.13 Smile


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322175] Fri, 28 June 2013 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
Shanga
Having access to the best weapons too soon kills your game fast. BIA did that. And soon I was roaming the country with a full squad of snipers backed by HMGs, cleaning out entire military bases without breaking a sweat.


Yes, getting the gravy too soon ruins the game

I think part of the way for dealing with this is rather than have 10 enemies with guns equal to or better than yours (who frustratingly don't drop them) is to have 15 enemies who in general have guns that are inferior to yours, with a few that are equal to what the mercs have and very rarely do they have a better one.

Quote:

If it was me, I'd remove weapon dealers from the game entirely. Or at least not have both weapon dealers (+BR) and Drop all. I'd like to see more bartering done, instead of straight up trade.


- Bobby Ray
I'd remove BR entirely from the game and replace him with random shipments (airdrops) from your employer. And don't have a fixed location, you actually get a note saying "We'll airdrop supplies in sector N9. ETA 24h. Be there". And it's up to you to get there in time, recover the stash and haul it back to HQ. Leave them there too long, enemy gets there before you and you've just equipped them with a cool new weapons. The irony, eh?


What I'd like to see is two groupings of guns.

Assault rifles, SMGs, LMGs, and conventional military calibers are to be found through fighting and buying/trading from local merchants.

Bobby Ray sells fancy attachments, scopes, lasers, etc. and semiauto guns...including guns that are quite not military. Bobby Ray is where you'd get a Calico from, or a fancy handgun in an exotic caliber, or a hunting rifle in 338 winchester magnum. (of course, mail ordering more ammo would be the ONLY way to feed weapons that are exotic on the battlefield even if they may be common other places)

Maybe Bobby Ray could sell 'replacement uppers' to convert M-16s you found to exotic calibers but retain full auto features. Would getting an AR-15 in 50 Beowulf be worth it if you knew the only way you'd get more ammo for it is to constantly be purchasing it then waiting a few days for delivery?
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322176] Fri, 28 June 2013 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
EXos
@NJ I disagree with you on the skills...

I liked the JA skill system. It was a clear reward for what that Merc does. If it heals people it gets points in medical, the guy who fixes the gear gets mechanical...

I really liked it... I sorted itself out.


The one issue I had with it was that it was based on wisdom. Okay, that makes sense to a degree. However that made the wisdom stat much more critical than any other because some guy who had a high wisdom could become a master-sniper in a very short period.

I'd suggest linking only SOME of the skills to a learning rate based on wisdom, and others to a flat learning rate. I'd also include the ability to have mercs train to improve. Taking them out of the action for a while should balance this out. And don't allow continuous training, either allow 1 training to happen per time your merc 'levels' or prevent the merc from training again until he passes as many days not training as he did training.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322195] Sat, 29 June 2013 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
Akodo Deathseeker
EXos
-snip-


The one issue I had with it was that it was based on wisdom. Okay, that makes sense to a degree. However that made the wisdom stat much more critical than any other because some guy who had a high wisdom could become a master-sniper in a very short period.

I'd suggest linking only SOME of the skills to a learning rate based on wisdom, and others to a flat learning rate. I'd also include the ability to have mercs train to improve. Taking them out of the action for a while should balance this out. And don't allow continuous training, either allow 1 training to happen per time your merc 'levels' or prevent the merc from training again until he passes as many days not training as he did training.


Actually the wisdom wasn't really an issue. If you bought a couple of high wisdom merc at the beginning they weren't as good as others but during the game they grew with it.
If you bought a couple of others with other high stats they would serve you well in the beginning but later on would start lacking. In that case just fire them and get some others in their place.

Out of all the things from JA2 that need "redoing" for JAF the skill system is one that doesn't need it. Sure some tweaking should be done but it's a rewarding system that work well in my opinion.

For instance my current play through. (JA2 1.13 + AR)
My IMP merc started with 85 Wis but after 188 Kills and 35 assists (Yeah I like playing with myself Razz ) his Markmanship has only gone up 13 points. With still a 50% hit chance.

Though I must agree with the HUGE amounts of enemies being thrown at you through the mods; the system has been a bit skewed, but that's what the tweaking is for.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322268] Sun, 30 June 2013 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
I agree that the basic JA2 system is pretty good, and probably the least needing of change. However it does appear that JAF is changing it, so I want it to be at least as good if not better than the 'old' system.

For instance, it appears if you use one classification of gun you get better with that subgroup but your skill with the other subgroups deteriorates, which IMHO is stupid, unrealistic, and unfun.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322300] Mon, 01 July 2013 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Akodo Deathseeker
For instance, it appears if you use one classification of gun you get better with that subgroup but your skill with the other subgroups deteriorates, which IMHO is stupid, unrealistic, and unfun.

I find this to be very realistic infact. If you don't use/practice something for a while your handling of the particular thing will get slower and less accurate.
So if JAF is going to force you to practice with e.g. Pistol e.g. once a week to avoid losing some advanced abilities with the pistol, this sounds quite realistic to me.
If this might be rather fun or rather a nuisance probably depends on actual implementation.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322310] Mon, 01 July 2013 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cosmo Bozo

 
Messages:17
Registered:May 2013
Thing is, whilst you do get rusty with skills you haven't used for a while, it is much faster getting back up to speed than it is learning something completely new
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322326] Tue, 02 July 2013 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
From the snippets we gathered, you don't lose a skill due inactivity in that skill but because you improve another skill.

So if you fight with a pistol a lot you become an expert. If you then sit around the jungle for a month doing nothing you maintain that pistol skill. However, if you practice riflery for that month and move from being an okay marksman to an expert marksman in rifle, you lose your pistol skill.

It's like a merc in JAF has a limited brain capacity, and once you learn a new fact an old fact gets forgotten. THAT is the problem I have with this system.

SECOND

This system is flawed in that it seems to assume that there are differences in the fundamentals of marksmanship based on what tool you are using. That's simply not the case. Okay, pistols are different simply because of how they are held, but marksmanship with anything that involves putting a gun to your shoulder is going to be the same. If you are an expert at making shots with an assault rifle, that skill is going to directly translate to making shots with a 'regular' rifle or sniper rifle. If you are an expert at doing controlled burst fire with an assault rifle that skill is going to translate to ALL burst fire weapons.

It's like learning a language (French) good enough to read. If you learn a new language good enough to read french romance novels, you also know that language good enough to read a french crime thriller.

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322332] Tue, 02 July 2013 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:359
Registered:July 2003
I don't like the idea of gun groups either. I think JA2 does things just fine.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322337] Tue, 02 July 2013 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GFox

 
Messages:32
Registered:January 2013
Akodo Deathseeker
EXos
@NJ I disagree with you on the skills...

I liked the JA skill system. It was a clear reward for what that Merc does. If it heals people it gets points in medical, the guy who fixes the gear gets mechanical...

I really liked it... I sorted itself out.


The one issue I had with it was that it was based on wisdom. Okay, that makes sense to a degree. However that made the wisdom stat much more critical than any other because some guy who had a high wisdom could become a master-sniper in a very short period.

I'd suggest linking only SOME of the skills to a learning rate based on wisdom, and others to a flat learning rate. I'd also include the ability to have mercs train to improve. Taking them out of the action for a while should balance this out. And don't allow continuous training, either allow 1 training to happen per time your merc 'levels' or prevent the merc from training again until he passes as many days not training as he did training.


This sounds pretty good.

I hope these are externalized from the start, though. I'm sure everybody has their preferences that are quite different.

For example, I thought that the leveling up quickly in JA2 (when merc is heavily used) was fun at first but after a few playthroughs it started to bug me:

AIM has tons of mercs with (tens of) years of special ops experience and yet some Hungarian rookie with bad accent outlevels them after a few weeks of running around in Arulco. Doesn't make sense to me at all. :laugh:
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322607] Thu, 11 July 2013 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Really loving all the suggestions, wishes and discussions in here Smile A lot of useful information, which we can use to improve the overall feel of the game.

We have our ideas, like the skill deterioration you discuss above, but they also need to be tested thoroughly and tweaked and can still end up being changed if we find that it simply doesn't work the way we intended it to.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322623] Fri, 12 July 2013 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
JAFTeam
Really loving all the suggestions, wishes and discussions in here Smile


Glad to hear. You know what we would really love and appreciate from you in return? Better info policy and community management. We know you guys are awfully busy with creating awesome stuff, but you really should give us a little more love than showing up for a quick comment every few weeks. Wink

That said, what i really would love to see, is a somewhat realistic wounding system with actual effect on the performance of Mercs and enemies and their AI.

If i hit an enemy in the leg, he should fall down and either have to crawl or move considerably slower or become quasi stationary. if i hit him in the shoulder, he shouldn

☆★GL★☆
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322640] Fri, 12 July 2013 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
I understand, being a gamer myself I also crave more info and details from the games i follow all the time. But, having worked on the development side for a while now I also understand that sometimes you have to prioritize your efforts in order to achieve the best results, especially when you're an indie developer.

The most important thing for our company right now is to get Space Hulk done right. If we succeed we'll be able to add even more funds to JAF and secure the future of the studio.

Being the community manager I constantly poke the team for more content to show, both for Space Hulk and JAF, but all efforts go to finishing Space Hulk up at the moment unfortunately.

As mentioned we hired a story writer and a level designer, who are working full time on JAF, I have nice map taking shape right in front of me, but as always it has taken some time to find them and get them started up - Like it would for any other company.

Once a major part of he SH team is shifted over to JAF we'll be able to put out a lot more content and also engage more with the community on different levels. e..g community votes on JAF content, Competitions, Portraits, Story Snippets, Detailed Feature Descriptions and so much more.

Regarding the wounding system it will be a matter of realism vs. fun gameplay. A lot of the time realism sounds like a great idea, but often ends up slowing up the game ruining gameplay. (just mean in general here) The budget also has a say for such a system. with all different variations come another animation + of course coding the whole system and balancing it.

As usual this is one of those things that needs to be considered once the core game is in place and needs to be tested thoroughly.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322645] Fri, 12 July 2013 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
See JAFTeam, this is the kind of essential info and community communication that was missing.

Just give us the scoop on what

☆★GL★☆
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322663] Sat, 13 July 2013 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
lockie

 
Messages:3832
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
Maybe another chance for JA:F to set itself apart from the rest?


Or , more likely give them a nervous breakdown trying to balance gameplay /realism !
Maybe too complex an idea Mauser , keeps them thinking though Smile


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