Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Ini restructuring
Ini restructuring[message #323373] Sun, 28 July 2013 19:20 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3481
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I think our ini files, especially Ja2_Options.ini need restructuring. For the following reason:

  • Options are scattered all over the place. Most of the time,in a reasonable place, but not always. As a result, you have to more or less look through the entire file to find something.
  • Some options do nothing. Because they are never used ingame, or because they aren't even read. Since several years.
  • Option descriptions are wrong. Like options whose description says default is FALSE, and which are then TRUE by default. :headscratch:
  • My biggest gripe by far is that without knowing the code, one has often no way to know wether the option takes effect. Some options require a new game. Most don't. Which ones? Nobody knows! :rant2:
  • Default values are unreasonable. Turning every new feature by default is bad (might shoot myself in the foot here, I know). Thing is: The community has, over the years, taken almost absurd care to stick to classic JA2. Wether or not that is good is subjective, but we should stick to that, as its the way we do stuff here. Someone who simply installs an SCI and does not want to read the entire ini should not have to manually switch of stuff he does not like because some modder thought it'd be cool.
  • HOWEVER, some options allow to improve classic features without forcing anyone to use them. Like multiple IMPs. There is NO REASON not to allow 7 IMPs always, in ANY game. One can still play with one or no IMP if one wants. But if its set to 1 per default, its frustrating to anyone playing for the very first time to discover - in mid-campaign - that he could have more IMPs, but the coders decided 'nah, he'll first have to change an option he does not yet understand at gamestart'.
  • Absurd implementation of ini values. MAX_NUMBER_PLAYER_MERCS is the prime example of this. There is no, ABSOLUTELY no reason AT ALL to not have this set to 32. Always. Why is this set to 24 as a default value? It's not he vanilla setting... and it is a giant 'fuck you!' to anyone who does not know about this setting. Late in the campaign, he learns that if he had set some value he did never know about to a higher value, he could hire more mercs. It gets even better: if he changes it, savegames don't load, because that number is different from the one in the savegame. While it would be very unwise to try to change the number of player mercs in a campaign, why this no-loading nonsense? The savegame already knows how many mercs can be used in its game. It doesn't need the ini value anymore. It just decides to not load because some value it doesn't even need anymore is different. Dafuq?
  • (This will hopefully not lead to flame - I am not trying to attack anyone...) Way to many options are only changeable only once, even though there is no code justification for it. Take OCTH/NCTH for instance. Codewise, there is no problem with switching them. As was in 4870. Code instantly uses other routines, no problem at all. Nevertheless, we force players to decide, at gamestart, which cth system to use. Why? Why are features that can be switched ingame not switchable, and features that can not be switched are hidden?
For these reasons, I propose dividing the ini:
  • One ini should contain 'static options', that take effect on gamestart. They are read at gamestart and used then, later changes don't effect existing games.
  • In another ini, 'dynamic options' is used for options that are read as usual. Changes to them take effect whenever the exe is started.
Apart from that, loads of descriptions/values should be checked/adjusted.

I think this would make 1.13 more user-friendly. At the moment, if a friend who does not know 1.13 wants do give it a shot (and I don't feel like belittling him ['before you start a game, change these bazillion values']), I more or less know he'll be unnecessarily unhappy later. I do not like that.


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323377] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
ACK.
Sorting alle the options into 2 different INIs, one for "game start options" and another that can take effect in a running campaign - and giving an overhaul to descriptions and default values along with it - sounds like a good idea to me. :thumbsup:
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323378] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:714
Registered:July 2008
I agree with you and support each and everything you typed here. This is what 1.13 need. We have many new features over vanilla but currently it lacks the elegance.

Also many of the options in JA2_options.ini could be moved to mod_options.ini like, MAX_ITEM_SIZE, USE_XML_TILESETS, NUM_P_ITEMS etc because these are mod specific setting, not a preference of the player. This is just an idea, idk if it can coexist with your ini separation idea.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323379] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
It can and is a good idea. Probably includes stuff like arrival sector and grid as well.


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323381] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:448
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

I agree with flugente.as for me i would to prefer option like octh cth can be changeble during game,not only on start.


Plus if someone decide to rewrite tips for all options in ini files i want to say that one (minimum)description have mistake-Enchanced_close_combat system-in description it says that it allow to strip down lying enemy from his inventory,but if that option off-player still can obtain all item from enemy.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323385] Sun, 28 July 2013 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2632
Registered:May 2009
Looks like Flugente is bored and looking for work. Wink

Don't forget that the Ini Editor and its XML need to be adjusted as well. Lots of additional work...


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323392] Sun, 28 July 2013 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:674
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
Flugente
  • One ini should contain 'static options', that take effect on gamestart. They are read at gamestart and used then, later changes don't effect existing games.
  • In another ini, 'dynamic options' is used for options that are read as usual. Changes to them take effect whenever the exe is started.

I'd say when you do this to also add the possibility for modders to enable/disable major features in the code that they do or do not support in their mod, so overheating/food/ncth/etc...
There's still to many people trying to play a mod that for example doesn't support ncth, if they would not have the option to enable it at game start it would lead to a lot less questions about why their pistols are better than rifles..


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323398] Sun, 28 July 2013 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2842
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
With the in-game options menu now supporting multiple pages shouldn't all stuff that may be changed mid-game be moved out of the INI and into that menu? Same can be said for settings that require a new game to take effect, can't they all be moved in-game, leaving the INI for mod settings that should never be changed by the average player. No need for new INI's but a major expansion on Ja2_sp.INI where default settings are stored. EDIT: and Ja2_Settings.INI in the Profiles folder would need to be expanded on too to accommodate all the things that may be set from within the game and changed without breaking a save game.

As far as locking out major features, again something to put in the INI once it is made clear that the INI is not where casual changes are made.

EDIT: I understand that that there may be some disagreement as to what goes in game start menu/options meno/stays in .INI. May we get a list at least of what does require a new game to take effect please.

[Updated on: Sun, 28 July 2013 23:24] by Moderator



Re: Ini restructuring[message #323399] Sun, 28 July 2013 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Not all options a player can change are binary, I don't think the preferences can handle tri-state or integer options atm. Plus, it would seriously overload the menu.
The campaign screen is also at capacity, and adding a new page to that might be ... interesting.


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323404] Mon, 29 July 2013 02:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:78
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
I agree that this is something the game has needed for a long time.

Though as for NCTH/OCTH I honestly don't even think it belongs on the campaign start-up screen. It's mod specific and the consensus seems to be that for a base 1.13 game, NCTH is pretty much broken.

I say if someone wants to switch this mid-game let them but make it an INI setting, not something added to an already crowned preferences screen. This way mods that use NCTH can default it on in the background and as someone has already pointed out it may cut down on a lot of bad experiences for new players.

I think the same can be said for NewInv/NewAttach now that I think about it. Does anybody actually use old inventory anymore unless they are playing UB?

I also think max IMP and squad sized should be in the ini instead of the start-up screen. At least squad size seems something that would be more monitor specific than anything else. Max IMPs might be something more people change every session, I dunno. Having the option where it is I know I often start with a different setting depending on my mood.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323413] Mon, 29 July 2013 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:560
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
DepressivesBrot
Not all options a player can change are binary, I don't think the preferences can handle tri-state or integer options atm. Plus, it would seriously overload the menu.
The campaign screen is also at capacity, and adding a new page to that might be ... interesting.

I had submitted a multi-page "New Game" screen some time ago, don't think it was implemented, plus the buttons to switch tabs could use some reworking. As for the tri-state or integer options, we are already using them with Bobby Ray, Max number of IMPs and a few more. It may be a bit of a pain, but it is doable, should someone wish to implement it again.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323414] Mon, 29 July 2013 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:359
Registered:July 2003
Moving the INI stuff to an in-game screen would be cool, but creates several problems:

1. It's nice to be able to update the game but save the game settings in a separate file that you can copy/paste between folders. If the settings are in-game then you would need to enter them again each time you start a game or install an SCI.
2. I think the in-game screen would require a complete overhaul. Basically you would need to duplicate all the functionality of the existing INI editor except so that it runs inside the game. :tired:

[Updated on: Mon, 29 July 2013 10:55] by Moderator

Re: Ini restructuring[message #323434] Mon, 29 July 2013 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
SharkD
1. It's nice to be able to update the game but save the game settings in a separate file that you can copy/paste between folders. If the settings are in-game then you would need to enter them again each time you start a game or install an SCI.

The in game settings are currently saved (otherwise you'd have to redo all settings on reloading/restarting game): Ja2_Settings.INI in mod's profiles folder.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323443] Mon, 29 July 2013 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:674
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
Sam_Hotte
SharkD
1. It's nice to be able to update the game but save the game settings in a separate file that you can copy/paste between folders. If the settings are in-game then you would need to enter them again each time you start a game or install an SCI.

The in game settings are currently saved (otherwise you'd have to redo all settings on reloading/restarting game): Ja2_Settings.INI in mod's profiles folder.


There's an option for a personal ini file in the code, by setting a certain value in ja2.ini you can have an ini that merges over the one of the mod you're playing.
This would mean that if you'd have a personal ini file that sets cash to a high value it would always overwrite those values on top of the ones that are in the mods ini file.
This way you'd never have to go through any ini's because you have your own settings in a clean personal ini file, any other stuff that would change between mod updates would still work.

This is a nifty little feature I requested birdflu to add to VFS :>


Re: Ini restructuring[message #323470] Tue, 30 July 2013 06:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
Since the Ini editor already reads multiple Ini files, sorting things into a start and a dynamic seems a pretty logical option.

While I love the idea of more things being optional in game, I do see where some of the options being either not binary or dependent on other choices could open a much larger project than to 'clean' up the items.

I especially like the part about updating the descriptions and defaults, as a non-coder that tweaks his game for personal preference often those descriptions are the best help I get without spending hours searching through the forum or worse trying to go through the change logs to figure things out.

Re: Ini restructuring[message #323472] Tue, 30 July 2013 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spelid

 
Messages:8
Registered:August 2007
@Tais

How do you do that? Is it doable also for a non-coder?
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323473] Tue, 30 July 2013 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:714
Registered:July 2008
Check your "Docs" folder. There is a file called "Merge INI Files.txt"

"Merge INI Files.txt"
Per default, merging (overwriting existing property values + adding missing ones) of INI files is disabled.
BUt you can enable it for specific INI files inside your ja2.ini.

Just put the property "MERGE_INI_FILES" in your ja2.ini.

For example, if you want to enable merging for the files "Ja2_Options.ini" and "Ja2Settings.ini" just enter
the following line in your ja2.ini file:

MERGE_INI_FILES = Ja2_Options.ini, Ja2Settings.ini

Now you can put your custom Ja2_Options.ini and Ja2Settings.ini inside your
"Profiles\UserProfile_JA2113" folder. Please note, you only need to put the custom properties (that differ from the base 1.13 INI) plus the section name
inside your custom INI-Files. That's all.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2013 13:01] by Moderator

Re: Ini restructuring[message #323475] Tue, 30 July 2013 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spelid

 
Messages:8
Registered:August 2007
Thank you
Re: Ini restructuring[message #323476] Tue, 30 July 2013 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dinglehopper

 
Messages:134
Registered:January 2008
I don't mean to be a kill joy, but i think we do need to be carefull when determining if something should break a save when changed.

Using the example given of changing max mercs (why is the max 32 anyways, thats my question), I agree going from 24 mercs to 32 mercs should not cause problems. What happens when someone goes from 32 to 24 and they have 28 mercs hired? This is hard to think of because who would do such a thing, but if we allow it and it completely crashes the game the complaints will come because someone out there who beats to his own drum will do it.

You could fix it by replacing the current check to see if the value has changed with a check to make sure the value is higher than the current number of mercs employed.

Also, the in game binary options screen is not ideal, nothing on it is sorted, the descriptions have extreemly limited text space often leaving some question as to what it actually does (does it have mouseover tooltips now? I remember checking lately but can't remember if it had changed). Adding more options to this screen as it is will make things worse not better.

Either that screen needs some major work before something gets added to it, or we need another option. How hard is it to change the laptop screens? Maybe we could have an options screen on the laptop.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2013 17:20] by Moderator

Re: Ini restructuring[message #323478] Tue, 30 July 2013 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
That scenario wouldn't happen. I didn't verify this specific part myself, but the way he describes it the game will always use the value it already had in the current savegame yet sill complain if you change the ini for whatever reason.

Also, the preferences have tooltips and it likely wouldn't matter if you move the screen from one set of shitty, hardcoded interfaces to another.


Re: Ini restructuring[message #324155] Mon, 19 August 2013 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:156
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
As always great work Flugente and huge kudos for finally summing that up! The changes to INI files will be the most welcome option for me since I've ever started playing 1.13. And will indeed be a huge step forward to help casual people get into the game, as they won't have to spend that much time to tweak the now huge and messy INI file(s).

Every time I start a new game (and I do that every few months, always trying the new features and being overwhelmed by them Wink) I spend literally hours to tweak the Ja2_Options to my likeness. The INI editor doesn't really help, it's just an alternative to editing by hand. The fact that the options are split in three places (new campaign, ingame settings and INI file(s) doesn't help either.

Here are some problems I encountered and it's exactly like Flugente said:
  • I assume every feature works fine - and I'm not a coder to check that in code. Someone once told me that the massive counterattack option was not working - while the INI suggested me that I made the game considerably harder
  • INI often says the default value is X while it's set to Y, so in the end I have no idea which one is the "vanilla" one I should use
  • INI often doesn't list the actual range I can use. Can I use a value of 101 in the option? And if the max is 100, and I set it to 101 will the game crash, or set the default value or use the 100 value then?
  • I indeed have no idea what options can I turn off in-game when I like them, so I usually try not to mess with the INI in the mid of the campaign
  • There's a lot of INI options I simply skip - a lot of them shouldn't really belong there, as are too critical to game balance and should be tweaked in another file, like APBP constants - and some are purely for mod developers like MAX_ITEM_SIZE and should not belong to the file any user is supposed to edit.
I think the basic aspect of the file is the ability to turn on/off the features he (don't) like and to tweak the basic behaviour of them. And maybe to tweak some difficulty as well (by adding more enemies to the strategical or reducing starting cash etc)

I agree with the other changes as well, even when I never thought about them - savegame compatibility breaks on INI editing and the indeed not needed options to limit the max number of mercs or imps (at least not on game creation) sounds really solid.

I'm looking forward to the changes, I can help if for some reaosn I can be of any help, though I'm not a coder and just can supply the ideas. Thanks if advance for all your work on making 1.13 even better guys Smile

PS. I'm also very happpy on the recent work on fixing things and cleaning/refractoring the code - I've seen a lot of these changes in the SVN. Sure, the new features are always really nice, but I also appreciate the work in making the code cleaner and more portable place. Hell, maybe even I will dwell into the code eventually Smile. Again, great work on 1.13 guys!

EDIT: Will you need a help with rewriting the description of an option? I guess by being a non-coder and just a player may be a help in here, as opposed to writing the description only a programmer can understand Wink.

[Updated on: Mon, 19 August 2013 14:04] by Moderator

Re: Ini restructuring[message #324173] Tue, 20 August 2013 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3481
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I'm more or less beginning the work... and used my favourite example, MAX_NUMBER_PLAYER_MERCS. That one is already tricky... okay, here it goes:

It seems to me the only reason the ini value was used was that doing otherwise is more or less unwieldy. I've now replaced it ingame (r6294) (apart from initialisation for obvious reasons) with
#define OUR_TEAM_SIZE_NO_VEHICLE (gTacticalStatus.Team[ OUR_TEAM ].bLastID - gTacticalStatus.Team[ OUR_TEAM ].bFirstID + 1 - gGameExternalOptions.ubGameMaximumNumberOfPlayerVehicles)
Why the Vehicle part you ask? Well, as far as the game is concerned, our vehicles are mercs... sort of. This also means that there always was the following trick do foolish things in your game: Decreasing your merc slots but increasing your vehicle slots led to an instance where the game loads, but the number of mercs allowed can now be lower than the number you have in that savegame... not nice. While that isn't possible anymore, it is now possible to do something similar by increasing vehicle number in an ongoing campaign. Same problem, I'll eventually fix this. The underlying problem is that both mercs and vehicles are on the same team, but handled differently. Yuck. Anyway, you can now change MAX_NUMBER_PLAYER_MERCS and it won't affect existing campaigns.

Also interesting: The slots for other teams (MAX_NUMBER_ENEMIES_IN_TACTICAL etc.) could always be increased, which then increased the teamsize... but not lowered, which made sense. What not made sense is that the ini value is still used throughout the code - as a consequence, it was possible to lower the number of enemies the game creates anew, even though it should know it can add more. No sure if bug or feature, as that allows to downsize enemy forces if you find out they are too much for you.

Sheesh, at this speed this'll take weeks. Sad


Re: Ini restructuring[message #324179] Tue, 20 August 2013 05:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
for Max # of Enemy: I think though that one probably does get abused by players it was left easily editable for Mod Makers to adjust the difficulty and #s of enemies.

I kinda suggest maybe making a new ini called ModConstants.ini or something
and then doing the initial sort.. as things ModMakers should edit vs. things a player should be able to customize for pleasure.

Then in any new/future mods it should be easier for both players and modMakers to handle things.



Re: Ini restructuring[message #324183] Tue, 20 August 2013 06:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Katagelan

 
Messages:21
Registered:June 2012
Also "enemy drop all" should be allowed to be changed mid-game.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #324191] Tue, 20 August 2013 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
phelon, I'm way ahead of you and did that over a year ago. Although so far it's only used for stuff that is very closely bound to mods.


Re: Ini restructuring[message #324198] Tue, 20 August 2013 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
DepressivesBrot
phelon, I'm way ahead of you and did that over a year ago. Although so far it's only used for stuff that is very closely bound to mods.


AH so then its a matter of expanding on your work to include more things that should in general be untouched by players and then getting that change into general use. Thats cool. maybe we should post up a section or two of the ini at a time and get comments on which lines are best as mod vs which as player.. or maybe you should pick your favorite 5 or 6 modders and ask them to comment an ini that way...



Re: Ini restructuring[message #324199] Tue, 20 August 2013 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
IIRC max number of mercs was closely related with MAX_NUMBER_ENEMIES_IN_TACTICAL, MAX_NUMBER_CREATURES_IN_TACTICAL, MAX_NUMBER_MILITIA_IN_TACTICAL and MAX_NUMBER_CIVS_IN_TACTICAL. Total sum of these values needed to be lower then 240 or so I think or the game would start crashing all over the place. Increasing max number of mercs also increases how many of them you can have in tactical combat at once and can cause problems unless you add some sort of max number of mercs in tactical value and have extra merc arrive as reinforcements.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #324523] Sat, 31 August 2013 04:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:156
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Uriens
IIRC max number of mercs was closely related with MAX_NUMBER_ENEMIES_IN_TACTICAL, MAX_NUMBER_CREATURES_IN_TACTICAL, MAX_NUMBER_MILITIA_IN_TACTICAL and MAX_NUMBER_CIVS_IN_TACTICAL. Total sum of these values needed to be lower then 240 or so I think or the game would start crashing all over the place. Increasing max number of mercs also increases how many of them you can have in tactical combat at once and can cause problems unless you add some sort of max number of mercs in tactical value and have extra merc arrive as reinforcements.

Hm, if what you saying is correct:

Current max = 32 mercs + 6 vehicles + 64 enemies + 40 creatures + 64 militia + 40 civs = 246. Would be 240 if we didn't count the vehicles.
Even so, if the max is 240 then even with vehicles there's only 6 spots to take off from somewhere. But is it really 240?

Also, I found a post with someone claiming that there can be only 100 people present on one sector. Does it still apply?

Could someone elaborate on the limits on these options?

-----

I've also got, a tip/reminder - if you resort to adding more settings into the game settings menu - consider keeping the options that doesn't take effect instantly off the in-game option screen (options that do not require a new campaign, but require either restarting the game, reloading a saved game, ending a turn or loading another sector). One awkward example is zombie option. Why not move it to INI with a visible info that it can be changed without restarting the game? Advanced user can alt-tab to an INI file and change the file on fly anyway, while the presence of this option in a place visible to a casual player to change as he wish a bit disrupts a gameplay (compared to most other options that are in the game settings - I would like to remind that most if not all original JA2 options that are there have absolutely no impact on the game balance).

PPS.Flugente
Some options do nothing. Because they are never used ingame, or because they aren't even read. Since several years.

Any chance of telling us which ones are these? At least the ones you know off your head ^^?

EDIT: I also think that all the settings relating to the IMP creation should be split into another file just like the skill variables are, maybe except the IMP_PROFILE_COST and DYNAMIC_IMP_PROFILE_COST. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to split option that directly affect how hard the game is - that includes MAX_NUMBER_..._IN_TACTICAL, MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE, IMP_PROFILE_COST, drassen/aggresive AI etc.

[Updated on: Sat, 31 August 2013 04:42] by Moderator

Re: Ini restructuring[message #324528] Sat, 31 August 2013 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
Faalagorn

Hm, if what you saying is correct:

Current max = 32 mercs + 6 vehicles + 64 enemies + 40 creatures + 64 militia + 40 civs = 246. Would be 240 if we didn't count the vehicles.
Even so, if the max is 240 then even with vehicles there's only 6 spots to take off from somewhere. But is it really 240?


Yeah, I didn't count vehicles. Unfortunately, the thread in which this was discussed such limit as the feature was developed doesn't seem to exist anymore. The only thing I managed to find is this thread. In the first post there is a link to the thread where this was developed but it appears to be broken.
Anyways, I do remember some of it as I participated in testing that feature. However I do remember SpaceViking mentioning that he can do only up to 240(or 246 with vehicles) actors on the map and made sort of the poll on how he should distribute numbers among enemies, militia and civilians. The end result is the one you see in the ini file.
I also remember him mentioning that increasing the limit would require too much effort, and would probably cause problems. I'm guessing he was thinking on increasing max value from single byte value to something bigger but it would require him to find all instances of that value in code which is not easy task. Anyways, it was a while ago so I may be off with my memory here.

Quote:

Also, I found a post with someone claiming that there can be only 100 people present on one sector. Does it still apply?



I doubt there is such limit. I remember at the time I used to play with 64 max militia and 64 max enemies in tactical and it worked fine. My max militia and enemy groups were 32 but in events like Drassen Counterattack all 128 people would show up and fight. However, there have been changes in code how it handles militia specifically and currently I'm unable to set max militia groups to 32 AND max militia in tactical to 64 (to allow reinforcements to arrive immediately). Since that change I play with 32 max militia (both strategic and tactical) and 32 max enemies strategic and 64 tactical.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #326254] Sat, 05 October 2013 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2632
Registered:May 2009
Hey Flugente, are you still working on this?

I would like to move some modifiers out of Ja2_Options.ini and into the new Item_Settings.ini.

These are:
EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER 	= 100
MELEE_DAMAGE_MODIFIER 		= 100
GUN_DAMAGE_MODIFIER 		= 100

OVERHEATING_COOLDOWN_MODIFICATOR_LONELYBARREL = 1.15
OVERHEATING_TEMPERATURE_GLOBAL_MODIFIER = 1.0

GUN_RANGE_MODIFIER			= 100

We already have the overheating and gun range modifiers for the different gun types. I might as well use index 0 of the array for the global modifier. At the moment it is not used and the allocated memory is wasted. The same applies to weapon type damage modifiers which I'm implementing at the moment. What do you say?

Also I think that the following should be moved to CTHConstants.ini:
AIMING_BURST_PENALTY = 2
SHOT_HEAD_PENALTY = 4
SHOT_HEAD_DIVISOR = 2
SHOOT_UNSEEN_PENALTY = 100

CTH_PENALTY_FROM_ALTWEAPHOLD = 30
AIMING_PENALY_FROM_ALTWEAPHOLD = 30
AIMING_LEVELS_REDUCTION_ON_ALTWEAPHOLD = 50

MAXIMUM_POSSIBLE_CTH 	= 99
MINIMUM_POSSIBLE_CTH 	= 0
MINIMUM_CTH_DIVISOR 	= 100

AUTOFIRE_TOHIT_BONUS_MULTIPLIER = 5

CTH_PENALTY_FOR_TARGET_MOVEMENT = 1.5
MAX_CTH_PENALTY_FOR_MOVING_TARGET = 30

CTH_PENALTY_PER_TARGET_SHOCK = 2
MAX_CTH_PENALTY_FOR_TARGET_SHOCK = 40
CTH_PENALTY_DIVISOR_FOR_PRONE_SHOCKED_TARGET 		= 1
CTH_PENALTY_DIVISOR_FOR_CROUCHED_SHOCKED_TARGET_HEAD 	= 3
CTH_PENALTY_DIVISOR_FOR_CROUCHED_SHOCKED_TARGET_TORSO 	= 4
CTH_PENALTY_FOR_COWERING_CROUCHED_TARGET_LEGS_DIVISOR 	= 5
MIN_RANGE_FOR_FULL_COWERING_TARGET_PENALTY = 100
MAX_CTH_PENALTY_FROM_SHOCK = 40

MORTAR_CTH_DIVISOR = 3

I'm aware that some of these belong to certain option groups and we would rip those apart but which normal player is interested in changing these numbers (that most don't understand) anyway? I'm more for a slim Ja2_Options.ini that has mostly on/off options inside.

The same applies to several AP/BP modifiers in Ja2_Options.ini that should be moved to APBPConstants.ini in my opinion.

Your opinions please! Smile

Re: Ini restructuring[message #326257] Sat, 05 October 2013 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Please DO NOT merge OCTH and NCTH options in CTHConstants.ini


Re: Ini restructuring[message #326259] Sat, 05 October 2013 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2632
Registered:May 2009
DepressivesBrot
Please DO NOT merge OCTH and NCTH options in CTHConstants.ini

Even if we make separate blocks?

Re: Ini restructuring[message #326648] Wed, 16 October 2013 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Moa

 
Messages:58
Registered:September 2013
I would like to have all 'dynamic' options which do not effect save game or campain to be stored inside the game options screen instead of ini file. If an option is considered a cheat then it is only visible (and changable) when gabbi cheat is activated.

There would be:
-Mode_Settings.ini defining campain dependent options (setting different values require specific files like maps,graphic,xml,audio ec. and new game)
-JA2_Options.ini defining save game related options (setting different values require new game)
-JA2_UserOptions.ini defines default values for basic stuff, does not effect savegame.
-JA2_AdvOptions.ini or yOUraCHeater.ini default values for advanced stuff (setting different values are not recomended, considered as a cheat but work)
And put User and AdvOptions into game options screen (and save those values into savegame).

As there will be a ton of new options in that screen it has to be redesigned as well:

10 major categories (or what ever fits on one column)
each can have unlimited options, scroll thru by hitting next/previous button as usual.
major categories are on column 1 which is allways visible, options are on column 2 + n.

If 10 is not enough there can also be toggle buttons to simulate submenues which change button text and helptext on click. (or make a drop down menu, but thats probably to much work)


PS: Some bird wispered ini restructure is on hold for now.
PPS: Maybe even add JA2_Opions.ini to 'new campain' screen.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #326649] Wed, 16 October 2013 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:560
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
Moa, some time ago I did write a small patch to add 5 tabs to the new game screen, though at that time it wasn't deemed necessary. You can view an example of how it looked here. There should be 2 .patch there as well, tabbed options and tabbed options v2, though I don't recall what the difference between them was. I think that in the first one I had moved some of the options to the second tab, just as a proof of concept. Either way, feel free to use it if you find it helpful, though a new image for the tabs would help.
Re: Ini restructuring[message #326650] Wed, 16 October 2013 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2632
Registered:May 2009
Moa

And put User and AdvOptions into game options screen (and save those values into savegame).

No, please don't save those in the savegame. I play around with different savegames all the time and I don't want my options to change just because I loaded another savegame.
Game preferences belong to Ja2_Settings.INI.

Re: Ini restructuring[message #326665] Wed, 16 October 2013 21:23 Go to previous message
Moa

 
Messages:58
Registered:September 2013
If an option is related to the savegame because changing it would require a new game it has to be put into save game. Otherwise the save can not be loaded.

You are refering to options which do not effect savegame, right? This can be solved by adding buttons on options screen 'restore settings to system defaults' and 'restore settings to user defaults'.
Every option then is reset to the default value defined in the ini file (either in profiles\*.ini or data\*.ini).
After that save the game and you are using 'your' options.
And finally adding another button to overwrite the ini file in profiles folder 'use settings as user default'.

Pros:
-If you are trying to debugg a savegame you dont need to modify your ini files anymore to reproduce a bug as that savegame comes with all needed options.
-You can play one campain using one setting (e.g. using some specific CTH value) and also play a different one without modifying the ini.
-If player wants to change a setting during campain he is not forced to modify the ini file anymore.
-external tool (ini editor) is not needed except for defining some default values, but thats a task for the moders/coders, not for the player. And even then this ini file can be generated by the game as well.

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