Home » CHIT-CHAT » Off Topic Discussions » Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.
Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #322942] Fri, 19 July 2013 02:58 Go to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Alrighty folks, another remake of a classic RPG makes its turn based comeback this month and it looks gooood!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UFYsQ0M2Jrg[/video]

I seriously wouldn

[Updated on: Fri, 19 July 2013 03:00] by Moderator


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Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323300] Sat, 27 July 2013 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cosmo Bozo

 
Messages:17
Registered:May 2013
I picked this up on an impulse purchase based on the decent reviews it was getting and the fact it has an editor

Very short campaign, completed it already, but it's fun, if a little lightweight.

Turn based combat isn't very deep, but it is fun... reminds me of the new Xcom, partly because of the graphics I think, the border around where you can move and the shields where there is cover look exactly the same. Also you just get 2 or 3 actions, move and shoot, move a long way or stand still and shoot twice or 3 times depending if it's aimed or a burst etc... the fact that you carry infinite ammo but have to reload the guns is also like the new Xcom

A lot of complaints about the checkpoint save system, but it didn't bother me in the slightest, and it removes the temptation to reload every time something goes wrong.

The game was fairly easy, at least on the default difficulty which I never changed, so I only died around 3 times in the whole playthrough, and a couple of those were just stupid mistakes (late in the game you need a specific weapon to deal with a specific enemy, and that weapon is useless against anything else...fired the wrong gun at things a few times leading to groans of frustration)

Looking forward to seeing what modders can do with the editor...maybe there'll be a shadowrun 1.13 one day....
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323301] Sat, 27 July 2013 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Maybe a Shadowrun:Wildfire
I wish people would realize the conditions for the existence of JA2 1.13 and stop using it as an empty phrase to magically conjure a fan improved version of every game on the market. It just bugs me.


Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323304] Sat, 27 July 2013 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cosmo Bozo

 
Messages:17
Registered:May 2013
Sorry, won't happen again
I do realise it takes more than a level editor to do stuff like that, and it was and still is huge achievement.
but then JA2 came out with less mod support than shadowrun so I guess it depends on how talented and dedicated the community will be, it already has a following from years back.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323309] Sat, 27 July 2013 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:709
Registered:July 2008
JA2 has the best mod support because the developers have released the source code.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323310] Sat, 27 July 2013 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Well, "the conditions for the existence of JA2 1.13" as DB put it has been the public release of the source code.

[Updated on: Sat, 27 July 2013 15:28] by Moderator

Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323481] Tue, 30 July 2013 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:441
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
DepressivesBrot
Maybe a Shadowrun:Wildfire
I wish people would realize the conditions for the existence of JA2 1.13 and stop using it as an empty phrase to magically conjure a fan improved version of every game on the market. It just bugs me.

Wildfire is the same bad example. It was made with access to source code.

If anything campaigns like Sog' 69, Deidrianna lives, Shady job, Rubicon, Urban Chaos ... should be mentioned as the example.

edit: Hmm i can't decide if i should compare SRR to Deadly Games or Unfinished Business .

[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2013 19:32] by Moderator

Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323483] Tue, 30 July 2013 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Hmm, true. Although it's not straying too far from the original, you might pull that off without source if you have to.


Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323533] Thu, 01 August 2013 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Well, after having played roughly halfway through the main campaign, i can say this:

- Graphics are functional but kinda sterile. The maps are rather static and there is no destructible cover.
- The complete lack of voice acted dialogue costs a lot of atmosphere, but makes it a lot easier to create new content.
- The combat lacks depth but is functional. I

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Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323538] Thu, 01 August 2013 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:348
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I've finished the campaign, and i have to say i got addicted to it. The dive in shadowrun world is great, i like the atmosphere.

That said, i was very disappointed by nearly everything else in the game.
I second Mauser in every subject he raised, and more:
-The main campaign is short, with no replayability, and no generic runs or whatever.
-Scenario is very linear (yet nicely put).
-2D art is nice (but not outstanding), and 3D models are very cheap.
-No multiplayer. It would have been nice to make a run with friends. Was it such difficult to implement?
-Game mechanics are over simplified, killing the rich original pen&paper gameplay.
-Character development is very hasardous, and non rewarding. Increasing skills often gives you nothing, or you don't know what, and most of the time, you end up not using what you gained, on the field.
-The editor...A level editor, no more. With such an simple game, i imagined it would be possible to change nearly anything, very easily. In the end, it seems quite limited.

Last but most worrying subject for us, i want to remind the Kickstarter initial goal of 400000$ (JA:F 350000$), and final pledge status at 1,836,447$! With that kind of budget, they did a very very light game, technically, and in length, with no multiplayer, cheap modability, etc. They had no stretch goals, and in the end, i feel like they put everything over the initial goal in their pocket, not in the game. Seing JA:F has roughly 400000$ final budget, if we have a proportionnal quality game in the end, it will be very far from rich.

Strange thing is, i had a good time playing it, i went through the campaign with great involvement. The narrative layer is indeed very nice, and kept me eager to see what would happen next, right in shadowrun's mood and track.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323540] Thu, 01 August 2013 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Grim
Last but most worrying subject for us, i want to remind the Kickstarter initial goal of 400000$ (JA:F 350000$), and final pledge status at 1,836,447$! With that kind of budget, they did a very very light game, technically, and in length, with no multiplayer, cheap modability, etc. They had no stretch goals, and in the end, i feel like they put everything over the initial goal in their pocket, not in the game. Seing JA:F has roughly 400000$ final budget, if we have a proportionnal quality game in the end, it will be very far from rich.

I don't know about the Background of Shadowrun's kickstarter and its makers, but JAF kickstarter has just been to get JAF preproduction started while Space Hulk was in the making. FC's profit from their ongoing sales is to be reinvested (into JAF and keeping the company running). Probably not comparable to shadowrun(?).
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323542] Thu, 01 August 2013 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:348
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I really hope it's not comparable. However, Shadowrun returns being one of the first Kicktarted game out, i am curious to see what they could do with such frame and budget. The result is such cheap (with nearly 2 million dollars budget), that i have some fears about the other games i pledged for, JA:F included.
Let's see what's in Space hulk already (a very basic game indeed), we'll have a first impression on their abilities to make a bigger game.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323563] Fri, 02 August 2013 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Grim
Strange thing is, i had a good time playing it, i went through the campaign with great involvement. The narrative layer is indeed very nice, and kept me eager to see what would happen next, right in shadowrun's mood and track.


True, the story and narrative is quite endearing and manages to captivate and convey the Shadowrun atmosphere rather well, despite being so awfully linear and restricted with almost ridiculously little actual choice for an assuming RPG.
But it still could use a lot more details to truly make the world come alive, it is all very plain and basic.

Grim
Last but most worrying subject for us, i want to remind the Kickstarter initial goal of 400000$ (JA:F 350000$), and final pledge status at 1,836,447$! With that kind of budget, they did a very very light game, technically, and in length, with no multiplayer, cheap modability, etc. They had no stretch goals, and in the end, i feel like they put everything over the initial goal in their pocket, not in the game. Seing JA:F has roughly 400000$ final budget, if we have a proportionnal quality game in the end, it will be very far from rich.


Agreed, for that amount of money, they could have delivered a LOT more.
We can just hope that Space hulk will sell well (i know i will certainly do my part for it), so the development budget for JA:F gets expanded greatly and we will get a finished product of greater quality than Shadowrun Returns.
The fact alone that JA:F will need a lot more content like different 3d maps, a lot more items, a lot more characters and according quality voice acting to make it all work means, that a very basic game, like Shadowrun Returns is, will just not suffice.

Although, from a hardcore fan and modder point of view, i

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Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323576] Sat, 03 August 2013 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:441
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Grim
I've finished the campaign, and i have to say i got addicted to it. The dive in shadowrun world is great, i like the atmosphere.

That said, i was very disappointed by nearly everything else in the game.
I second Mauser in every subject he raised, and more:
-The main campaign is short, with no replayability, and no generic runs or whatever.
-Scenario is very linear (yet nicely put).
-2D art is nice (but not outstanding), and 3D models are very cheap.
-No multiplayer. It would have been nice to make a run with friends. Was it such difficult to implement?
-Game mechanics are over simplified, killing the rich original pen&paper gameplay.
-Character development is very hasardous, and non rewarding. Increasing skills often gives you nothing, or you don't know what, and most of the time, you end up not using what you gained, on the field.
-The editor...A level editor, no more. With such an simple game, i imagined it would be possible to change nearly anything, very easily. In the end, it seems quite limited.

Last but most worrying subject for us, i want to remind the Kickstarter initial goal of 400000$ (JA:F 350000$), and final pledge status at 1,836,447$! With that kind of budget, they did a very very light game, technically, and in length, with no multiplayer, cheap modability, etc. They had no stretch goals, and in the end, i feel like they put everything over the initial goal in their pocket, not in the game. Seing JA:F has roughly 400000$ final budget, if we have a proportionnal quality game in the end, it will be very far from rich.

Strange thing is, i had a good time playing it, i went through the campaign with great involvement. The narrative layer is indeed very nice, and kept me eager to see what would happen next, right in shadowrun's mood and track.

Great, another one who thinks they had a lot of money to work with >_< and the editor is powerful. What do you think they made the campaign with??? You can do almost everything in it,one things like item editing must be done in notepad, for now.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323578] Sat, 03 August 2013 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:348
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I'm not simply saying they had a lot money to work with, please read before you post.
Re: Shadowrun Returns to be released on Steam, Juli 25th.[message #323796] Thu, 08 August 2013 22:41 Go to previous message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Oh well, i finished the story campaign now and i am still not very impressed by it.

And then i ran into this regarding the editor, which is probably the true heart and core of the game:

Quote:
"Well I wouldn't get your hopes up, the editor is abysmal to work with. Only SR diehards are going to work with this in the longterm.
You can paint maps easily but in the end you have dumb restrictions all over the place, all of which make the editor a nightmare to work with.
A map can only be a few screenwidths in size before the tile renderer falls apart, these guys don't seem to understand basics of culling and streaming textures. Tile engines from a decade ago can do a much better job.
The game can only save very select variables. When you move between areas, it actually doesn't remember anything AT ALL. No NPCs, no items on the ground, no combat states, nothing. The game is physically incapable of storing active data between scenes.
Every time you want to create a connected area, you have to go out of your way to save each and every change via a manual variable with this fucking elementary script system which is so lovingly put into comboboxes instead of an actual script you can write within seconds.
My only hope for this shit is that someone can create an external script editor to reduce some of the tedium, but it won't alleviate the fact the scripting language is missing dozens of key features.
The editor is fine if you want to travel in a straight line, but god forbid you walk off the beaten path... which I tried, and found out wasn't worth the effort. I'm not putting much stock in things changing in the future given they're moving right onto DLC/Mobiles after absorbing 1.5 million.. and still can't figure out how to save their own gamestate."

Bottom line, don't get your hopes up, it's not getting any better than Dead Man's Switch.


Well, either Hare brained schemes proves the critics wrong with the Berlin campaign, or this reboot may fizzle out before the fire even started.

Although if i imagine, how people here have stuck with JA2 and its many glaring flaws and limitations and improved it through hard work and dedication nonetheless, maybe Shadowrun Returns will be able to gather a similar dedicated community and work something out together with the developers, in order to give the fans what they truly want in due time.

Until then though, there is little reason to start a second playthrough.

And i am really split on the decision if SR is worth the 15 - 20 Bucks.
It definitely is not worth anything more in its current form though.

Oh well, let

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