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Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310239] Sun, 16 September 2012 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2012
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
So this is an election before the election? I mean, if i liked what a let's say senator did in his current period and he/her is candidate for re-election, I'm gonna vote for him/her (again). If i got you right, i'd had to vote in advance to determine the funds he/her get's for the re-election campaign?
Sounds very inefficient and bureaucratic to me.

[Updated on: Sun, 16 September 2012 23:39] by Moderator

Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310241] Mon, 17 September 2012 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1830
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Of course it would. Because I'm the guy proposing it.

We already have primaries. This would simply be an expansion on that theme and a more indepth involvement for those so inclined. Those who don't want to participate don't have to but the beauty of this system is that corporations would no longer have nearly as much sway as they do now.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310774] Sun, 30 September 2012 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
abradley

 
Messages:227
Registered:December 2001
Quote:
Venezuela's marathon man looks to run down Chavez
Henrique Capriles, an opposition leader who runs marathons in his spare time, hopes to give Hugo Chavez a close race in elections next weekend, reports Philip Sherwell.

By Philip Sherwell, Maracaibo, Venezuela

5:44PM BST 29 Sep 2012

Comments145 Comments

Soaked by rain and perspiration, Henrique Capriles retreated reluctantly inside his campaign bus as the horn-blowing, flag-waving convoy crept through the pot-holed streets of the slums of Maracaibo, Venezuela's second city.

A late evening tropical thunderstorm had finally forced him from his place atop a pick-up truck after a typical 12-hour day of rapturous rallies and rock-star receptions for the dashing 40-year-old opposition leader.

Undeterred by the downpour, the exuberant crowds outside chanted his name as firecrackers erupted in the pitch-darkness that is graphic testimony to the failure of the country with the world's largest oil reserves to deliver electricity to its own poor.

In Venezuela's presidential elections on Sunday, Mr Capriles faces one of the toughest challenges in global politics - defeating Hugo Chavez.

The socialist autocrat dominates the airwaves and is tapping the state's deep oil coffers to fund his campaign and "buy" votes with a calculated explosion of investment in populist social programme in the weeks before the vote.

But despite its energy riches, the country is mired in debt and unemployment as state-imposed price and exchange rate controls shackle the economy. And violent crime is so endemic that Caracas has the unenviable ranking of the murder capital of the world.


Now, with the long-divided opposition united for the first time behind a charismatic state governor who is already a veteran of Venezuela's rough-and-tumble politics despite his youthful years, President Chavez is facing his most serious competition at the ballot box since he came to power in 1998.

At stake is the grip on power of an anti-Western firebrand who embraces Iran and China and is seeking to use the nation's oil wealth to export his dream of a socialist revolution across Latin America.

(Continued)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/philip-sherwell/9576153/Venezuelas-marathon-man-looks-to-run-down-Chavez.html
Let's hope this will be the end of Chavez and his dream.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310809] Mon, 01 October 2012 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
abradley

 
Messages:227
Registered:December 2001
Quote:
Chavez vows to run more efficient govt if he wins Venezuela
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310810] Mon, 01 October 2012 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3381
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Khor1255
Of course it would. Because I'm the guy proposing it.

We already have primaries. This would simply be an expansion on that theme and a more indepth involvement for those so inclined. Those who don't want to participate don't have to but the beauty of this system is that corporations would no longer have nearly as much sway as they do now.


khor, you can have that with just one other amendment "only natural persons shall be allowed to contribute to any campaign funds" - no more red tape needed.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #310890] Thu, 04 October 2012 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1830
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
That still doesn't do anything because people could easily get around that provision. But at least that is better than what we have except for the fact that since the latest supreme court decision corporations are natural persons.

The problem is that it doesn't at all get around rich people voting schills in to appease their special interests.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #311012] Mon, 08 October 2012 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
abradley

 
Messages:227
Registered:December 2001
Quote:

Oct 7, 10:40 PM EDT

Chavez wins re-election, electoral council says

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AP_LT_VENEZUELA_ELECTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-10-07-22-40-12
Pity the poor Venezuelans ... a country so rich in resources is being bankrupted for an ideology that's failed everywhere it's been tried.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #311013] Mon, 08 October 2012 09:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1830
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Yeah, at least this time it was close. He better start buying more poor votes if he expects to win again.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #314901] Tue, 29 January 2013 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veedotja2

 
Messages:88
Registered:April 2012
Location: New York
[/quote]I now have a new favorite poster. Welcome aboard man. [/quote]

Thanks. When will I learn to stop arguing with internet trolls?

It is possible to disagree. But I won't be swayed by junk links and insults.

I would like to have a discussion about US politics and the ways we have changed as a country because the people have disagreed (often violently) with the status quo. Slavery is a great example. But such discussions tend to turn disagreeable and personal attacks fly. I don't do that, but sometimes get engaged with a person on an honest level who ends up throwing out an insult that shows their true nature.

Just watched Animal Farm yesterday (the Orwell fantsy book which is a thinly disguised attack on the Russian Revolution). The movie sucked ass because they kind of gave it a positive ending. All star voice cast, too. Sad.

But Animal Farm illustrates how everything is so easily twisted. Every tragedy or benefit Napoleon the pig managed to twist into propaganda for himself and his pig friends. Especially easy if you control the media (in this case the seven commandments of Animalism). It is less depressing than 1984, but only a bit.

The point: It's a good primer on how Socialist governments form and perpetuate themselves. I was thinking of the Venezuelans and the Cubans as I watched and I got pretty sad.

You cannot believe anything a media outlet says in a dictatorship like Venezuela. And it effectively is a dictatorship, regardless of the elections.

Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #314902] Tue, 29 January 2013 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veedotja2

 
Messages:88
Registered:April 2012
Location: New York
Sam_Hotte
VeeDotJA2
It is important to note that Hitler was elected, [..]

No, he was not. He lost the 1932 presidential election to Hindenburg. Hitler then used political tactics and intrigue to force the president to appoint him chancellor in 1933. The following elections and legislation were no longer free but at least half directed by terror, oppression, intimidation and murder.
(E.g. the enabling act took place with armed forces of SS and SA being present in parliament while all communist and some socialist representatives had been illegally arrested)
In the end Hitler appointed himself president.


I was wrong. That's what I get working from memory and not sources.

If that's my big error that stuck out, I guess I'm doing OK.

I know better than to debate German political history here! My larger point was that Hitler had a large level of popular support. I suppose all dictators must have popular support to rise in power, at least initially.

[Updated on: Tue, 29 January 2013 18:39] by Moderator

Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #314903] Tue, 29 January 2013 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veedotja2

 
Messages:88
Registered:April 2012
Location: New York
SmokinGun
Khor1255
I now have a new favorite poster. Welcome aboard man.


Nice, as usual the mouth breathing gaper has so much to offer. Careful not to drool too much in your own lap.

Quote:
It was never exactly rocket science. You didn
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #314905] Tue, 29 January 2013 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veedotja2

 
Messages:88
Registered:April 2012
Location: New York
Khor1255
Every American citizen who wants to participate in the system could tally their votes (likes, dislikes, indifference) for each politician that pertains to them. Obviously someone from California would have no say in what a senator from Maine did etc but everyone would get a vote on purely federal officials. These votes would determine how large a piece of the public fund each candidate would get towards his election. The system would be regulated by having numerous tallying stations according to party lines and non affiliates. In other words everyone would be chacking everyone else's numbers.


Sounds like a large bureaucracy needs to be created to realize your system. It requires more voter involvement for fairness that I don't see happening. I don't even like the level of bureaucracy we have now attached to the the party system apparatus. See the Ron Paul obstruction scandal. I think there is so much money in politics that any attempt to change this will be easily perverted.

That said, I don't have an answer to the problem, assuming a problem even exists. I'm not convinced though. I don't know nearly as much as I need to. I'm too busy following SmokingGun's crappy links all over the Web! It's okay, though because I do like getting information from people I disagree with because at least I understand their biases.

We have issues in the US with government complexity and overreach where groups of people expert in nothing (politicians are largely political science majors and lawyers) have jobs to make laws that affect us on everything. This makes them targets for bribery and influence peddling by special interests that can gain or lose through legislation. That's lobbying and it is as bad as the governments' power to grant favors to the lobbyists. There's the bad money, I think.

Of course, in free society no public (read YOURS and MINE) money would go for a use like election funds. Taking my money by force through taxation and giving any of it to a public candidate is anti-freedom. If you can't get your donations from individuals or (wait for it...) a corporation you don't get to take it from the citizens by force. You may need to amass some personal wealth to run for office. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'm not attacking you, just your position, but I don't have the answer either. I think we should start with limited government and take away the attractiveness of government service and the power of government. Then there is less motivation to buy candidates with buckets of cash to the point we need to legislate against something that can't really be stopped.
Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #327466] Fri, 01 November 2013 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
abradley

 
Messages:227
Registered:December 2001
Quote:
15 May 2013 Last updated at 05:20 GMT

How food shortages are dividing Venezuela

By Irene Caselli BBC News, Caracas
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22526622
Prior to Chavez Venezuela had problems, now it's a disaster.


Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #327532] Sun, 03 November 2013 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
winehouse

 
Messages:92
Registered:October 2012
lockie
If this gets any more than 5 genuine replies , my hat will be eaten :moosegrin:

Re: Chavez Signs New Labour Law in Act of [message #330629] Sat, 15 February 2014 22:59 Go to previous message
abradley

 
Messages:227
Registered:December 2001
tao
Venezuela

[Updated on: Sat, 15 February 2014 23:01] by Moderator

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