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Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336330]

Mon, 29 September 2014 22:51

Sooner is currently offline

Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK

I have to admit, its been a long while since I touched 1.13, but with the new stable release I decided to give it another go and experience for myself some of the major changes in the past couple of years.

I can wrap my head around just about everything except the finer points of data displayed in the NCTH UI. I get the smaller circle is better, and that the color changes from red to yellow etc. My question really becomes about the other numbers and elements that make up the entire NCTH UI. I have read through the encyclopedic post about how the calculations are done, what impacts the CTH and everything I can find on the wiki and google. What I can't find is a reasonably concise graphical representation of what the items in the NCTH mean.

For instance, my pistol has three dots, my rifle has a lot more. Why? There is a number listed as a multiplier to the left of the aiming circle. What does that number represent? These items might be good to add to the Wiki as I am sure I am not the only lurker on here wondering how this all works.

Even my high marksmanship mercs (85 for the purpose of my testing) can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn with a scoped (7x) M4 from a prone position with an elevation bonus. From my reading I understand that there may be some required tweaking of the values within the INI editor which I am fine with, mostly I just need to understand what is being represented to me on the screen.

So can anyone help out a long time lurker here and enlighten me or point me in the direction of a post that will help me to elighten myself?

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Private 1st Class

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336332]

Tue, 30 September 2014 00:06

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

There have been many changes to the NCTH cursor. Basically the information that is displayed remains:

inner circle = area where the bullet will go

upper left:
magnification factor with color indicator
scope mode (hip, iron sights, scope, reflex sight)

upper right:
amount of action points for this shot

bottom:
aim levels
number of bullets for this shot

When you use it you will see what changes and how to read it.

The dots are the aim levels. The less aim levels a weapon has the easier and less time consuming is the aiming process. When you compare weapons of the same class you might want to look for lower aim levels, easier handling and better accuracy to make shooting easier and more accurate.

Scope users suffer a "aim too close" penalty when the target is too close for the current scope. A 7x scope is best used for snipers not ARs. For ARs best scope is usually 4x + reflex sight for close combat. As long as the magnification indicator is green or white the scope is used at optimal or longer range. If it turns red you will suffer a penalty which grows the shorter the distance gets.

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Lieutenant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336333]

Tue, 30 September 2014 00:18

Sooner is currently offline

Messages:35
Registered:January 2004
Location: Broken Arrow, OK

Ok that should get me started and I really like the fact that there are rounds being popped off everywhere and it makes the combat seem a lot more like combat, and a lot less like turn based mass murder.

I will swap out the scopes and give it another go this evening. Appreciate the feedback and the response.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336335]

Tue, 30 September 2014 10:19

Vincent J. Claymore is currently offline

Vincent J. Claymore

Messages:285
Registered:February 2011

It confuses me a little as well... I just started a new game and it seems that I can't hit a head from 5 tiles away with my MP5/10mm despite MRK 85... but then again, 5 tiles is 50 metres...

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Master Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336445]

Sat, 04 October 2014 00:47

Cardinal is currently offline

Messages:45
Registered:September 2014

A question for Silversurfer - is it possible to "force" bullets to go at least within the outer aperture?

I love the NCTH system, but it's kinda annoying when fully aimed shots from mercs with not so great dex, mrk or exp don't even reach the outer ring
even when the inner one looks like a relatively decent possibility.

I ask this also because 4-5 round auto bursts sometimes end up in the ground 4-5 tiles in front of the merc.
Bullets dont even reach the outer aperture area even when they're a good shooter firing a low recoil weapon prone with a bipod.

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Corporal

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336450]

Sat, 04 October 2014 11:05

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

The initial bullet will always be within the aperture unless you use the weapon beyond range. The rest of autofire is another matter. It highly depends on strength and lots of other factors if the shooter can keep the weapon on target. Best thing is to do that with an auto-weapons guy or machine gunner. That's what we have the roles (traits) for. Using an M60 with Ira is probably not the best choice. Wink

Wink

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Lieutenant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336453]

Sat, 04 October 2014 15:25

Cardinal is currently offline

Messages:45
Registered:September 2014

I should have paid more attention to what i was writing. :headbanger:
I think that fully aimed auto fire from the hands of a good merc is pretty effetive at killing, no argument there.

It's just that when I try to adjust the inner aperture to cover a wider area (not fully aimed "orange" shot) to suppress a cluster of enemies rather than kill a single one,
the bullets seem to end up in the ground instead of near the targets. And that happens pretty often even with good mercs like Cougar or Conrad.

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Corporal

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336454]

Sat, 04 October 2014 16:12

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

I think that's not the right way to do it. When you want to suppress a group you probably want to do it like this:

- select autofire mode for your weapon
- select how many bullets you want to fire
- left click (hold button down) on the starting point of your volley (must have aim cursor active) and drag the mouse to the end point of your volley
- release left mouse button and the volley starts

Your merc will swing the gun from start to end. If the path was selected well you may hit several targets or suppress them.

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Lieutenant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336456]

Sat, 04 October 2014 19:25

Cardinal is currently offline

Messages:45
Registered:September 2014

Yeah, I know about the click and drag aiming, but I gave up on it because it's even worse.

There seems to be a weird random spacing between the dots (second dot appears only after 3-4 tiles and then the rest get bunched up close to it)
They're not uniformly distributed like I remember from vanilla.

Even if I fully aim before dragging, most of the bullets end up in the ground couple tiles away from the shooter.

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Corporal

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336519]

Thu, 09 October 2014 16:18

Alex_SPB is currently offline

Messages:169
Registered:February 2008
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

I have encountered the behavior of NCTH which I do find strange during my attempts to play with the system.

I have an M16a4 rifle with range 30 which shows the aperture X on 25 tiles. Then I increase the range of the gun up to 50 and it shows the aperture Y on 25 tiles. In this case X>Y, meaning that the rifle with range 50 would be more accurate than the rifle with range 30 at 25 tiles away.
As far as I remember this is totally opposite from the original Headrock NCTH concept. Were there any changes from that time or it is just a bug?

Thanks in advance.

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Staff Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336521]

Thu, 09 October 2014 16:40

Strohmann is currently offline

Messages:287
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes

Are you sure you left all other conditions constant? Can you post screenshots and link CTHConstants.ini?

[Updated on: Thu, 09 October 2014 16:54] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336522]

Thu, 09 October 2014 17:00

Alex_SPB is currently offline

Messages:169
Registered:February 2008
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

Ok, this is the first screen: range to target: 29, gun range 30

https://yadi.sk/i/Zu4heaZJbuMFr

range to target: 29, gun range 70 (just changed one value in weapons.xml)

https://yadi.sk/i/SWDuiFhobuMUG

And this is cthconstants:

https://yadi.sk/d/T0R62g7rbuMjQ

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Staff Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336525]

Thu, 09 October 2014 19:31

Strohmann is currently offline

Messages:287
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes

Hmm can't reproduce:

Unstable_Revision_7535_on_GameDir_2165

Range to target 29, with the CTHConstants.ini values you provided. Also tried aiming at an empty spot, prone at legs, same result: no aperture size change if nominal gun range gets increased.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336533]

Thu, 09 October 2014 23:06

Alex_SPB is currently offline

Messages:169
Registered:February 2008
Location: Russia, St.Petersburg

I will update from 7516 to 7535 and try to repeat.

[Updated on: Thu, 09 October 2014 23:07] by Moderator

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Staff Sergeant

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336754]

Fri, 17 October 2014 16:19

Ablomis is currently offline

Messages:34
Registered:July 2014

Hi, i'm always turning NCTH to "off" because it seems like my mercs are terribly inaccurate with it. I can have Hitman with 95 accuracy (in Urban Chaos i believe) missing consistently with a pistol from 5 tiles away. (basically he would have to substantially hit at a reasonable range).

Is it supposed to be this way, or am i missing anything?
Although probably the system is more realistic in terms of execution, the "classic" systems looks more realistic in terms of the statistics. (Good mercs hit consistently).

[Updated on: Fri, 17 October 2014 16:20] by Moderator

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Private 1st Class

Re: Requesting Clarification: NCTH for Dummies[message #336759]

Fri, 17 October 2014 18:02

grim is currently offline

Messages:344
Registered:July 2006
Location: France

Hitman's stats aren't that good, for a starter. He only has 40 Dex (awful!), a mere 74 Wis (not that bad but still bad compared to many other mercs). Those are much more important in NCTH than OCTH.
Then, you are shooting with a pistol. Pistols are the worst weapons in the game to shoot accurately, and you probably have no attachment to improve that.
Shooting distance: 5 tiles is reasonable, however, due to the scale of the game, it's like shooting at 50 meters with a pistol. It's not that easy.

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Master Sergeant

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