Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » So you know that red smoke?
So you know that red smoke?[message #341225] Fri, 29 May 2015 08:04 Go to next message
Rockstarz
Messages:3
Registered:May 2015
Location: United States
That isn't some kind of weird new mustard gas mortar.

Nope.


Thankfully it mowed down many more of them than of me.
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341227 is a reply to message #341225] Fri, 29 May 2015 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M16AMachinegun

 
Messages:304
Registered:September 2013
Radio Operators can call in mortar strokes from neighboring sectors!
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341229 is a reply to message #341227] Fri, 29 May 2015 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3525
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Radio Operators can, among other abilities, call in artillery from adjacent sectors. On ordering such a strike, a signal shell is fired on the target region, indicating the region with red smoke and illumination. This has the game-balancing effect of alerting anybody of an imminent strike and giving them a chance to evade (the AI avoids smoke and light and is thereby motivated to escape the blast zone as well). One turn later, several mortar shells will land in the indicated area, their number depending on the size and composition of the force that 'fired' the artillery in the adjacent sector.
The red smoke itelf is harmless.

Note that it is possible for the AI to also acquire these signal shells for their regular mortarmen, thereby creating the potential to successfully trick the player into believing he is about to be hit by a artillery barrage and make a hastily retreat. Had that once, made me proud of the AI for once cheeky



I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341231 is a reply to message #341229] Fri, 29 May 2015 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
deknegt

 
Messages:140
Registered:June 2007
Location: Doetinchem, Netherlands

I never dabbled with mortar strikes, but that sounds really really overpowered for some reason.

What's stopping me from stacking a 30 man militia force next to the sector, signing all the radio operators, and just raining down death every turn? Is there a cooldown, or a limit to the amount of mortars I can call in?
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341232 is a reply to message #341231] Fri, 29 May 2015 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:330
Registered:July 2006
There is a cooldown which pretty much means you can use it only once per battle. Same applies to enemy. You can also jam radio transmissions preventing either side from using mortars or other radio features as long as jamming is active.
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341235 is a reply to message #341232] Fri, 29 May 2015 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthropoid

 
Messages:143
Registered:February 2014
First let me say, I love this element of the game. It really gives the AI some unpredictability and real threat. Couple questions:

1. How long is a "turn?" Given how long a turn is, is it realistic that the strike arrives one turn after it is called?

I've noticed that: unless your mercs are all standing when the red smoke lands, someone is gonna get hurt by the arty strike, often times so badly that they are just basically toast. That seems a tad bit OP in favor of AI to me. Would suggest if possible a random delay with 1 being min and 3 or so being maximum and 2 being "average." Say there is a 50% chance for it to take 2 turns, 25% chance to take 1 turn, and 25% chance to take 3 turns?

2. Can a radio operator who is active on a map where tactical combat is taking place engage in radio jamming? It only seems to be an option in the strategic map window, though I have not looked intently to see if the functionality exists in tactical mode.

I'm guessing that, the idea is, the radio operator stays stationary with a sort of "forward operating base force?" and then a mobile squad or two take advantage of the effect of the radio jamming within a certain range?

3. Does the radio jamming having a limited range or does it cover all of Arulco?
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341241 is a reply to message #341235] Fri, 29 May 2015 20:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:330
Registered:July 2006
From playing experience:
2. Yes, he can jam in tactical map. Actually, radio operator (in my case Bob) is my most important merc even though he sucks in pretty much everything else. I use him to block AI from calling mortar strikes, to call my own and to call militia reinforcements when I need it. He basically allows me to control flow of the battle. You can just alt+right click to open radio operator menu and select the radio operator options from the menu that shows. Most actions take AP's except turning off radio set option (to stop jamming for example) which doesn't take any AP's. Jamming also prevents AI reinforcements which is nice addon that lets me control when I want to kill that enemy patrol in neighboring sector or when I don't want any additional enemies to come to the sector. Note that while you have jamming active, you can't use radio for any other actions as well. Operator will try (and lose AP's) but it won't have any effect. You need to stop jamming first and hope AI doesn't jam as well.

3. From what I saw, it's just the current sector that operator is in.
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341266 is a reply to message #341241] Sat, 30 May 2015 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3525
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
1. 'Turn' is somewhat misleading, as we designate both a team' turn as well as the sum of player/enemy/militia/civ turns as turn. Hmm. Let's name it 'round' for the sake of this conversation. If the player calls a strike, it will come in in the next round, if the AI calls it, one round later. The reason is that the player/AI should have at least a chance of evading a strike, as bigger strikes can easily kill someone with full health.
For internal code reasons that will not be changed, artillery strikes (just like timed bombs) will happen at the very beginning of a turn, which is the beginning of the player's turn (this also allows you to move a merc away while the strike is happening, which is unintended but doesn't hurt either).
A few months ago someone added frags to mortars. As a result artillery strikes are now much,much more deadly than they were originally. You can alter how many shells are fired in Skills_Settings.ini.

Time until a strike happens will not be altered, especially not randomised. Due to excessive demands, however, there is the option to have the shells arrive over several turns. This is a stupid option, as nobody should be around in later turns anyway, thereby essentially lowering the effectivity of a strike.

2. Radio jamming makes it impossible for any other radio operator to successfully call in artillery/reinforcements. This is only relevant in the current tactical sector.
The strategic assignment, 'Radio Scan', allows uncovering enemy presence in nearby sectors, but isn't 100%-reliable - the nearer you are, the more likely you'll detect someone.

3. As said, jamming only affects the current sector.

The thread on this feature has more info.

In general, depending on your playstyle and option set, a radio operator can be a very important or even necessary teammember - they can call in artillery and reinforcement and stop the enemy from doing so themselves. They can also issue commands to individual militia without having a direct sightline, which can save quite a few militia over time. At the same time, the heavy equipment, gear slots used and APs spent can result in a merc subpar in combat, especially considering that of the 3 stock mercs that have this trait (Bob, Ears, Weasel) only Bob can be considered a 'good' merc without excessive training. This is fully intended.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 May 2015 19:48]




I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341268 is a reply to message #341266] Sun, 31 May 2015 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthropoid

 
Messages:143
Registered:February 2014
Okee doke! All sounds very reasonable happy
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341274 is a reply to message #341268] Sun, 31 May 2015 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
One of my IMPs is a radio operator, he does pretty much fine in combat. 99% of the time I use him to jam radios because enemy mortars are more threatening to me than mine are to them. However, in a large scale defence, the one arty-strike available from militia (or 2 in certain sectors) can swing the balance or at the very least give your mercs some breathing room. Considering he makes up like 10% of the kill rate of an 8-man squad, it's well worth whatever drawbacks you have to take for the sake of the skill.

One thing I'm having trouble with is artillery provided by other merc squads. With the militia, you don't have to designate a target manually beyond alt+rmb on where you want it to hit, but it seems you must use a signal flare to do so with your own. This means they're rarely effective due to the distance one can throw the signal flare. Having to move a merc to get the flare where you want it can be just as dangerous, if not more, than not using the arty at all. I understand that it's probably a balancing thing, because you can practically have a nuke with a 6-man off-map mortar team and the number of rounds they can carry, but I'd like to see signal flare grenades for the 203/GP-25 and other grenade launchers.
Something else that kinda bothers me is having to have a radio operator on both ends, imo it'd be better if the receivers (ie the mortar team) simply needed the radio its self and not the skill. This already means 18 less shells that can be carried, since the manpack precludes the use of any kind of large rucksack.
The reason I say all this is because it's currently much, much more effective (and economical) to move your mortar team into the same sector, where they can land practically pin-point single shots anywhere on the map, even to the point of making the rest of your mercs practically useless except as spotters.

[Updated on: Sun, 31 May 2015 13:45]

Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341275 is a reply to message #341274] Sun, 31 May 2015 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
deknegt

 
Messages:140
Registered:June 2007
Location: Doetinchem, Netherlands

Get a demolition guy like Kaboom to throw the flares, their demo trait gives them a pretty significant throwing range increase for stuff like flares, grenades, and other things that go boom. I've learned to love having a demo guy on hand just for his ability of tossing a grenade 20 tiles into a pack of baddies.
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341305 is a reply to message #341275] Tue, 02 June 2015 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthropoid

 
Messages:143
Registered:February 2014
I suppose high strength and possibly the "throwing" skill might stack with the Demo trait?
Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341311 is a reply to message #341305] Tue, 02 June 2015 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2798
Registered:May 2009
Anthropoid wrote on Tue, 02 June 2015 02:08
I suppose high strength and possibly the "throwing" skill might stack with the Demo trait?

High strength helps as well as having full breath points. Throwing skill of old trait system helps as well but not the new trait system throwing skill. The latter is for throwing blades.

What also needs to be considered is the mercs stance. You can't throw far while crouching. Stand up to throw farther.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: So you know that red smoke?[message #341313 is a reply to message #341311] Tue, 02 June 2015 12:54 Go to previous message
Morbo513

 
Messages:47
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
silversurfer wrote on Tue, 02 June 2015 07:27
Anthropoid wrote on Tue, 02 June 2015 02:08
I suppose high strength and possibly the "throwing" skill might stack with the Demo trait?

High strength helps as well as having full breath points. Throwing skill of old trait system helps as well but not the new trait system throwing skill. The latter is for throwing blades.

What also needs to be considered is the mercs stance. You can't throw far while crouching. Stand up to throw farther.

Well aware of this, it's still often not far enough. If it's worth putting artillery at the furthest distance a merc can throw it's already a bad situation, whereas the militia arty can delay or even prevent that bad situation from happening.
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