Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Restrict item availability by year (by adding new item tags)
Restrict item availability by year[message #342070] Thu, 13 August 2015 00:25 Go to next message
Ishbane is currently offline Ishbane

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2006
Location: Germany
Got this idea from Smeagol.

I'd imagine it being two ints and a bool players can alter when setting up a new game. The ints denote the timeframe you want to see weapons from, f.e. 1970-1995. The bool can allow for weapons from before (and/or after?) said timeframe to rarely appear, so even if you're set on the eighties you may stumble across an MP40.

Originally i thought of restricting this to gun-class items, but for role-playing purposes this can be quite useful for explosives, tools and food as well. It would require two additional tags for every item: The year the item's last prototype was done and one of the year its mass-production began or it entered service. If the latter date falls in between the given timeframe it will simply be available, but if it was still in prototype stage its coolness will be increased by 1 or 2.

The new values would also allow modders to implement randomized loot based on years. Farms in the boondocks could sport stuff from the mid-last-century whereas orta is full of CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY of the late nineties.

I don't know how the traditional "Tons of Guns" selection works, but due to the variability of this feature new games would have to build their own table stored in a profile folder and referred by the save files, i guess. To uphold backwards compatibility old save files not containing a table name are converted to a default state without time restrictions regarding items.

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Private
Re: Restrict item availability by year[message #342071 is a reply to message #342070] Thu, 13 August 2015 00:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
While this could be done relatively easily codewise, the following will happen:

  • Once the code for this has been added, whoever coded this will also have to add these tags for every friggin' item, because the community sure as hell won't.
  • Someone will demand even more tags, because obscure handgun #234 stopped production in 1972 and it was resumed in 1976.
  • There will be demand for even more tags, like NATO or WP.
  • There will be demand for even more tags, like country of origin.
  • There will be then be a debate over whether AK variant #27B is of russian, ukrainian or belorusian origin, because this is super-important to not get wrong. Those countries never had anything in common!
  • There will be demand to add/decrease coolness requirements for items that fit tag requirement, making this an even bigger clusterfuck.
  • Someone will complain that preplaced items in maps are not affected by this (how the hell would they?). The bright idea will be to add new code to replace items according to whatever complicated rules are in by now.
  • Add in all other sorts of madness, like 'handguns of caliber X didn't have 15-rd mags until 1982, we need to alter the magsize!'.
Yeah. That might have been a bit of a rant, nothing personal.

And no, there is no need to save anything or any effect on savegame compatibility. Items and item selection data is stored purely in xml and read at start of the exe.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 August 2015 00:46]




I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: Restrict item availability by year[message #342072 is a reply to message #342071] Thu, 13 August 2015 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NewAgeOfPower is currently offline NewAgeOfPower

 
Messages:110
Registered:June 2010
Reading flug's reply made my choke on my drink. Good one.

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Sergeant
Re: Restrict item availability by year[message #342073 is a reply to message #342071] Thu, 13 August 2015 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ishbane is currently offline Ishbane

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2006
Location: Germany
Flügente wrote on Wed, 12 August 2015 23:39
There will be demand for even more tags [...]

You say that like it's a bad thing. cheeky

There's no need to actually fill those tags as long as their usage is .ini deactivated by default. It'd be another feature for modders to make use of and any inaccuracies players could complain about would be their problem.

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Re: Restrict item availability by year[message #342076 is a reply to message #342073] Thu, 13 August 2015 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Ishbane wrote on Thu, 13 August 2015 02:29

You say that like it's a bad thing. cheeky

There's no need to actually fill those tags as long as their usage is .ini deactivated by default. It'd be another feature for modders to make use of and any inaccuracies players could complain about would be their problem.

Implementing new tags is a bad thing in lots of cases.

Who is going to update the XML Editor? You? Players will complain about an incompatible XML Editor right away.
Players will also complain that the default 1.13 mod will not make use of the new tags.
Players will also complain that mod <insert mod name here> does not support the new tags.
Players will also complain that their item modifications do not work like they want without even understanding how they should work.

The question one should ask is "Is there a real benefit or is it just one of those requests that are implemented and forgotten?".



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant
Re: Restrict item availability by year[message #342078 is a reply to message #342076] Thu, 13 August 2015 21:53 Go to previous message
Franimus is currently offline Franimus

 
Messages:55
Registered:June 2015
Location: USA
silversurfer wrote on Thu, 13 August 2015 13:07

The question one should ask is "Is there a real benefit or is it just one of those requests that are implemented and forgotten?".


Using differences between, say, 1980 and 1990 doesn't really seem to add any value. You can just take out the items you don't like yourself, and post the items xml files "Here is a 1980 scenario". The code changes to implement this, IMO, would make that process more dynamic, but as was explained by Flugente and silversurfer, still requires a lot of upfront work and will result in innumerable tweaks and refinements. So people would end up making their own versions of the xml files anyways.

On the other hand, something like "Here is a 1780 scenario" might be interesting. A lot of things in the game would be anachronistic (you'd obviously want to disable tanks), but for the experience of using very different firearms than we're used to handling it would be worth glossing over those discrepancies. I don't know if something on that scale would require code changes or not to take care of those big things, but this magnitude of difference might make it worth it.

Regardless, it's a lot of up front XML changes. If you're serious about it, I'd recommend making those changes yourself first.

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Corporal
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