Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: combat jeeps
New feature: combat jeeps[message #344628] Sun, 20 March 2016 20:24 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Jagged Alliance is fairly limited in the number of different types of enemies you will face. Most of the time it's just ordinary humans in various uniforms. You might face giant cats and ugly bugs, but those are few and in between (and not as dangerous as they once were, as the amount of damage our mercs can dish out is a higher than in vanilla). It would be kinda cool to occasionally face tougher enemies, who require different tactics (or at least a lot more dakka).

anv offered a possible solution to this by allowing tanks to move in tactical and join enemy patrols and attacks. However, the step from infantry soldier to tank is somewhat... steep. A tank can only be damaged by explosives and very special ammo, so it is possible that the player forces don't even have the means to destroy the tank - even if it would stop blowing them up from afar or driving over them.


As an intermediate between infantry soldiers and full-sized tanks, we (smeagol, DepressivesBrot and me) have now added combat jeeps as a new enemy type. They fill a similar role to tanks:

  • they can appear in enemy patrols and assaults, jut like tanks nowadays can (if one allows this in the ini of course).
  • As combat jeeps are less armored than tanks, they are easier to damage (but still a lot tougher than infantry). With stock settings, AP and SAP anti-material ammo can damage them.
  • Tanks have a main cannon (item #60) and a Minimi (item #28), combat jeeps only have the Minimi. Note that both have unlimited ammo.
  • Combat jeeps can destroy structures by driving over them just as tanks do - but can't drive through tough structures, like solid walls.
  • http://i.imgur.com/EsQ69RB.png
    Combat jeeps can also appear in autoresolve. Jeep pictures by CVB, thank you!
  • Just like tanks, any enemy formation containing at least one combat jeep will categorically refuse to surrender.
Most tank ini settings are now also used for jeeps - unless explicitly stated in the ini:
Toggle Spoiler

ENEMY_JEEP_RAMMING_MAX_STRUCTURE_ARMOUR is new here. 38 is just slightly beyond sandbags, thus the jeeps wont run over those.

Toggle Spoiler

Whether jeeps appear in attacks and patrols is set here, and what progress is required. It is recommend to use a lower progress than for tanks - after all, combat jeeps should logically show up before tanks do.

There have been a few changes in AmmoTypes.xml that are important to modders:

  • <antiTank> has been removed. It was a boolean that defined whether bullets would do no or full damage to tanks. There was no way to have a mediate between the two, so it has been removed.
  • There are now new tags for damage against tanks, non-tank-but-armoured-vehicle (like combat jeeps), civilian vehicles, and zombies:
    <dDamageModifierTank>0.0</dDamageModifierTank>
    <dDamageModifierArmouredVehicle>0.0</dDamageModifierArmouredVehicle>
    <dDamageModifierCivilianVehicle>1.0</dDamageModifierCivilianVehicle>
    <dDamageModifierZombie>1.0</dDamageModifierZombie>
    

    These tags take values between 0.00 and 100.00. Note that when applying damage, these are then multiplied with the existing tags dDamageModifierLife and dDamageModifierBreath.
These tags allow creating special anti-tank (or anti-jeep, or anti-zombie) weaponry.
If a xml-editor that is not updated to this change is used, these tags will be removed from the xml. This will result in weapons barely dealing any damage. You have been warned!

Whether the AI assigns combat jeeps and/or tanks can now also additionally be controlled by ASD. In this case, the AI has to buy and fuel the tanks, see [url=]here[/url].

The jeep animations were made at smeag's between late breakfast and vegan muffins coffee time. If you are not happy with them, provide better ones, and I might consider replacing them.

And no, the player or militia cannot use tanks or jeeps himself. Because, among other things, I say so.

This has been added to the trunk in r8114 & GameDir r2305.

This is savegame compatible.

Using a new exe without the appropriate GameDir will cause penguins to enroll in your local fire department.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2016 20:01]




Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344631 is a reply to message #344628] Sun, 20 March 2016 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2156
Registered:May 2009
Holy shit! I think I have to put my mercs in EOD armor now. big grin

One question - in my opinion a LAW should take out the jeep. In your demonstration it didn't. Was that just for demonstration purposes or is the armor of the jeep that strong on purpose?



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344634 is a reply to message #344631] Sun, 20 March 2016 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panzer

 
Messages:79
Registered:February 2016
Location: Altis, Sometimes Tanoa
"Using a new exe without the appropriate GameDir will cause penguins to enroll in your local fire department."
I will do exactly that.



I have no Wife, Children, or real Job. This also means I have 24 hours a day and 7 days a week to think of a rebuttal. You have been warned.

"I got another problem: I am being overrun by Dinosaur Nazis on Hoverboards!" -Ravenhugger

"Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that who cares? He's a mile away - and you've got his shoes!" - Unknown Criminal
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344635 is a reply to message #344634] Sun, 20 March 2016 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CVB

 
Messages:136
Registered:September 2014
Location: Berlin
Very nice!
Do I interprete EditorMercs.cpp correctly that arm(or)ed jeeps can also be preplaced in the map editor?

PS. Video works for me

[Updated on: Sun, 20 March 2016 23:09]




Peace is a purely theoretical state of affairs whose existence we deduce because there have been intervals between wars.
J. Pournelle
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344637 is a reply to message #344635] Mon, 21 March 2016 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@silversurfer: It depends - sometimes it's one LAW, sometimes it' s 2. I didn't change a lot regarding explosions - combat jeeps do however benefit from TANKS_DAMAGE_RESISTANCE_MODIFIER, I might have to change or at least rename that soon-ish. Anti-materiel rifles deal roughly 30 to 55 damage with the new stock values. Given their range and precision, they are perhaps the best counter against these vehicles (AP ammo also deals damage, as seen in the video, but it would take an entire squad to bring down a jeep just by ARs, SR and MGs.

@CVB: Yes, jeeps can be placed in the editor. Combat jeeps are now a new bodytype, with everything that includes, including editor-stuff.
I have no idea why, but I cannot see the video in the post. If you can, then likely the last FF update borked somewhere for me.

sevenfm pointed me to some tank/APC stis in anv's old thread. Perhaps we can replace this jeep with a better version, or even replace the old tank stis (which are missing animations for several directions, which is why tanks move so bizarrely). Not sure, have to see.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344641 is a reply to message #344637] Mon, 21 March 2016 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:36
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
Yes. Yes.

To make their movement look less awkward, would it be possible to force them to move a certain number of tiles forward before being able to change directions, and only allowing them to do so 45 degrees at a time? Would also allow you to outflank them easier.
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344644 is a reply to message #344641] Mon, 21 March 2016 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
I like the idea of limiting jeeps movement.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344645 is a reply to message #344644] Mon, 21 March 2016 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CVB

 
Messages:136
Registered:September 2014
Location: Berlin
smeagol wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 17:21
I like the idea of limiting jeeps movement.


Seconded.

The same should also apply to other vehicles like Eldorado, Ice cream truck etc.



Peace is a purely theoretical state of affairs whose existence we deduce because there have been intervals between wars.
J. Pournelle
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344646 is a reply to message #344641] Mon, 21 March 2016 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Morbo513 wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 15:29

To make their movement look less awkward, would it be possible to force them to move a certain number of tiles forward before being able to change directions, and only allowing them to do so 45 degrees at a time? Would also allow you to outflank them easier.

I thought about that. As far as I can tell, this would require an almost separate AI pathing method, and would be a lot more complicated than the current method. Considering what happened the last time someone tried to 'improve' pathing, I'd rather stay away from that.

Also, think about it: How many tile-based games do you know where that is the case?



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344648 is a reply to message #344646] Mon, 21 March 2016 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2156
Registered:May 2009
I have only taken a short look at the files last night and don't have access to them atm but I think that the jeep uses the same vehicle ID as tanks (ID 164). Shouldn't it get a separate ID so we can define a separate name ("Tank" doesn't really fit a jeep), separate sounds and - very important - an own armor type? Right now jeeps have the same armor as tanks which might explain why the jeep in the video took two hits to destroy.

Also for ammo I have seen that HEAT does less damage against a jeep than it does to tanks. That doesn't make sense to me. HEAT rounds are the preferred ammo against lighter armored vehicles like APCs.

Also is there a keyboard shortcut to create an enemy jeep in cheat mode? It would be good to have one for testing.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344649 is a reply to message #344646] Mon, 21 March 2016 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morbo513

 
Messages:36
Registered:February 2015
Location: West Yorkshire, United Ki...
Flugente wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 18:04
Morbo513 wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 15:29

To make their movement look less awkward, would it be possible to force them to move a certain number of tiles forward before being able to change directions, and only allowing them to do so 45 degrees at a time? Would also allow you to outflank them easier.

I thought about that. As far as I can tell, this would require an almost separate AI pathing method, and would be a lot more complicated than the current method. Considering what happened the last time someone tried to 'improve' pathing, I'd rather stay away from that.

Also, think about it: How many tile-based games do you know where that is the case?

None, and it looks just as odd. This way would makes more sense to me, wheeled vehicles can't turn on the spot like most tanks and tracked vehicles. If it'd be a monumental effort to change I can live with it though.
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344650 is a reply to message #344648] Mon, 21 March 2016 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
silversurfer wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 18:49
I have only taken a short look at the files last night and don't have access to them atm but I think that the jeep uses the same vehicle ID as tanks (ID 164). Shouldn't it get a separate ID so we can define a separate name ("Tank" doesn't really fit a jeep), separate sounds and - very important - an own armor type? Right now jeeps have the same armor as tanks which might explain why the jeep in the video took two hits to destroy.

Also for ammo I have seen that HEAT does less damage against a jeep than it does to tanks. That doesn't make sense to me. HEAT rounds are the preferred ammo against lighter armored vehicles like APCs.

Also is there a keyboard shortcut to create an enemy jeep in cheat mode? It would be good to have one for testing.


Hmpf. I knew that stuff was good for something. Still have to fill that in then. Though it doesn't exactly make sense - why would vehicles need profile IDs? Let me guess, nobody could be bothered to code a think of a different way to get an ID,so they instead took up valuable space in profiles...

Come to think of it... why don't we just use the bodytype as vehicle IDs? It's different for every type of vehicle, and via code we can make sure only vehicles get one.

An enemy spawned by [Alt] + [b] has a chance to be a jeep, see UINT32 UIHandleNewBadMerc( UI_EVENT *pUIEvent ).



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344651 is a reply to message #344631] Mon, 21 March 2016 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tiger87

 
Messages:29
Registered:October 2014
silversurfer wrote on Sun, 20 March 2016 20:39
Holy shit! I think I have to put my mercs in EOD armor now. big grin

One question - in my opinion a LAW should take out the jeep. In your demonstration it didn't. Was that just for demonstration purposes or is the armor of the jeep that strong on purpose?


Exactly. Or alternativ a light or normal Jeep. Tougher than infantry. But destroyed by heavy machine gun fire.


Many thanks to you great guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344653 is a reply to message #344650] Mon, 21 March 2016 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Flugente wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 19:14

Come to think of it... why don't we just use the bodytype as vehicle IDs? It's different for every type of vehicle, and via code we can make sure only vehicles get one.

Answering my own question here, smeagol had valuable insight. RPC vehicles are placed in the map editor via profile. Thus those vehicles need a profile Id from MercProfiles.xml. This is very unfortunate.

Vehicles.xml mostly governs data relating to 'useable' vehicles - face, movement types, seating capabilities. All of that is irrelevant for tanks and combat jeeps. However, armour isn't - even though this doesn't make sense, they are already equipped in void EquipArmouredVehicle( SOLDIERCREATE_STRUCT *pp, BOOLEAN fTank ). I'd really like to change this, so that only player-useable vehicles require Vehicles.xml (and we thus free the tank profile slot), but for now, I need to fill a profile slot for the combat jeep. Let's say... number 71.

Edit: As of r8116 & GameDir r2306, merc profile 71 (formerly the unused RPC71) is now used for the combat jeep. In Vehicles.xml, combat jeeps now get armor similar to kevlar vest as tank has spectra. Note that this is somewhat misleading, as the previously mentioned ammo modifiers are still evaluated. LAWs, however, seem to do a bit more damage - I've tested this several times. Most of the times a single LAW kills a combat jeep, but I've also seen it only deal 72 damage. Seems fair to me - almost but not a guaranteed kill.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2016 23:22]




Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344656 is a reply to message #344653] Tue, 22 March 2016 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:816
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Quote:
merc profile 71 (formerly the unused RPC71) is now used for the combat jeep


Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that slot have special significance as a recruitable character in the code? Or am I simply mistaken in my memory of what I've read about making characters recruitable?




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Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344661 is a reply to message #344656] Tue, 22 March 2016 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As far as I can tell, RPC71 was never used in the code. Thus me using it.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344663 is a reply to message #344653] Tue, 22 March 2016 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2156
Registered:May 2009
Flugente wrote on Mon, 21 March 2016 21:27

Edit: As of r8116 & GameDir r2306, merc profile 71 (formerly the unused RPC71) is now used for the combat jeep. In Vehicles.xml, combat jeeps now get armor similar to kevlar vest as tank has spectra. Note that this is somewhat misleading, as the previously mentioned ammo modifiers are still evaluated. LAWs, however, seem to do a bit more damage - I've tested this several times. Most of the times a single LAW kills a combat jeep, but I've also seen it only deal 72 damage. Seems fair to me - almost but not a guaranteed kill.

Thank you for the quick update.

Regarding armor - the ammo modifiers are still useful. Ammo has different effects on different armor. With the different modifiers we can still define different effectiveness no matter how "high" the armor value of the target or the damage value of the ammo is. For example HEAT rockets are much more effective against "soft" targets than high power armor piercing rounds.

One more thing came to my mind. When someone fires armor piercing rounds on a lightly armored vehicle there is a chance that it could go through the windows/chassis and hit someone inside. Do you think it would be a good idea to score "lucky hits" that kill the passengers without destroying the vehicle? Of course this would be more useful if we could use the vehicle ourselves. ;-)



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344664 is a reply to message #344663] Tue, 22 March 2016 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Well, the method that requires the least amount of tactic or adaption from the player's side would be mass autofire from his ARs/MGs, which would benefit most from lucky hits. I don't really want to increase the usefulness of that - after all, we now finally have something in which those huge anti-material rifles truly shine.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


thumbs26.png  Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344674 is a reply to message #344628] Wed, 23 March 2016 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RunAwayScientist

 
Messages:71
Registered:September 2001

Beep beep goes the jeep jeep. http://i.imgur.com/vMZX2ne.png

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2016 12:20]


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344685 is a reply to message #344664] Wed, 23 March 2016 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2156
Registered:May 2009
Flugente wrote on Tue, 22 March 2016 20:02
Well, the method that requires the least amount of tactic or adaption from the player's side would be mass autofire from his ARs/MGs, which would benefit most from lucky hits. I don't really want to increase the usefulness of that - after all, we now finally have something in which those huge anti-material rifles truly shine.


I understand. I was just hoping to finally get another vehicle to drive in. ;-)
My idea could have been restricted to guns that can do a certain minimum amount of damage so ARs, MGs or anything smaller than that are out of the picture. No big deal. The combat jeep feature is already fantastic as it is.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344689 is a reply to message #344685] Thu, 24 March 2016 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
3iff

 
Messages:47
Registered:July 2001
Location: Birmingham, UK
Would grenades have any effect on these jeeps?
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #344691 is a reply to message #344689] Thu, 24 March 2016 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3138
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Yes, though, similar to grenades, you'd need quite a few to destroy a combat jeep.



Saren threw his head back and screamed in impotent fury, before falling to his throne, head in his claws, trembling in horrified disbelief.

Then he heard a faint chime as Sovereign subscribed to her ECHO channel.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.


Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #345099 is a reply to message #344628] Sat, 16 April 2016 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
killerpfiffi

 
Messages:25
Registered:December 2009
Location: Austria
Hi Flugente,

i have a gameplay problem with a jeep because it arrived before i could obtain better weapons (rev8156 - the strategy was direct sneak attack to Drassen Mine).

I know I can adjust damage ratings to get rid of it.

But I also have noticed the following:
- there is an option to patch an explosive to the jeep
- this action seems to cost 50ap

So i sneaked behind it (it's stationary) while other team taunting it.

IMP with tnt & time detonator was behind and side of it. Couldn't apply the charge. Always getting the message "not enough AP", but of course having much more AP then 50. Tried prone, crouched, standing. Perhaps the jeep grid is unreachable?

Also I wanted to know if the jeep could flee if it was set to moveable (and if not it should be able to, shouldn't it?)

thanks
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #346933 is a reply to message #344628] Thu, 15 September 2016 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Woquit
Messages:4
Registered:February 2011
Quote:
i have a gameplay problem with a jeep because it arrived before i could obtain better weapons (rev8156 - the strategy was direct sneak attack to Drassen Mine).

Same problem. Has spotted jeep near Omerta at the first day. JEEP_MINIMUM_PROGRESS is 50. rev8301
Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #350847 is a reply to message #346933] Mon, 04 September 2017 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oneperson

 
Messages:9
Registered:August 2017
This my first encounter with jeep when i night assault cambria mine and was reinforce by a jeep unit adjacent to the mine. I watched your youtube video the jeep moves and shoot but this jeep i encounter doesnt even move from the spawn point at the edge of map.

Does vehicle moves in tactical map?? or just a stationary sitting duck to be shot.

Thank you and all modders out there for all the excellent modding.

Re: New feature: combat jeeps[message #350855 is a reply to message #350847] Mon, 04 September 2017 20:32 Go to previous message
LatZee

 
Messages:45
Registered:December 2015
oneperson wrote on Mon, 04 September 2017 14:02
This my first encounter with jeep when i night assault cambria mine and was reinforce by a jeep unit adjacent to the mine. I watched your youtube video the jeep moves and shoot but this jeep i encounter doesnt even move from the spawn point at the edge of map.

Does vehicle moves in tactical map?? or just a stationary sitting duck to be shot.

Thank you and all modders out there for all the excellent modding.



Check your options file, moving of jeeps is probably governed by the same setting as tanks, so

; If set to TRUE, tanks can move around in tactical.
ENEMY_TANKS_CAN_MOVE_IN_TACTICAL = TRUE

in Tactical gameplay settings portion.
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