Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality (Feedback needed if planned changes will do)
Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357053] Tue, 26 March 2019 06:14 Go to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Modernising Attempt AR vs. Reality Check

The Idea: Create a customiced version of AR (ArulcoRevisited), useable with a recent build of
JA2v1.13, without loosing the character of AR. This might as well can be used as example
for other older mods.

Reality: Looking into the amount of changes done since 7609, not knowing if capable to find all
relevant ones and might lacking knowledge to do nescessary changes

So what?: I like to post a „roadmap" of what I think needs to be done for the purpose, ask for help
concerning the questions and feedback if you think I've missed something important.

AR-Spoilers ahead!


Roadmap: I've taken Strohmanns stable Version of AR and combined it with the patch by CVB and
then compared the content with 1.13 build_8673_on_2474. Here are my assumptions and
questions:


1. The folders „Docs" and „Profiles" in Data_AR should be safe. The file „vs_config.AR.ini", too.
2. Data-AR: the subfolders Interface, Loadscreens and Music doesn't require changes
3. The file modsetting .ini does
- my idea would be to make a copy of the 1.13 file to get the missing entries and then change the different entries specific for AR: airport sector, brothel rooms gridNo and under Meanwhile POW item Positions 1-3
4. Data-AR\TableData
- mercprofiles.xml Sektor Pablo, Manuel and Maddog has to be adjusted to AR
- CivGroupsNames.xml: the entry for smugglers is at wrong place, had to be changed, which might lead to other changes nescessary (NPCData,Lua,?)
5. Data-AR\Tabledata\Army
- the xml-files need to be compared and might need adjustment which also means ingame testing. Probably large impact on mods character.
6. Data-AR\TableData\Map
- each and every AR-xml here has to be compared with 1.13. Copy the 1.13 files and make relevant AR changes, might be easier
- Facilities, ShipingDestnation need a close look
- Checking for xml that are added or changed after 7609 and relevant for AR, so far found:
- SamSites: adding AR-Sams and check the terminals nescessary for covert ops,
requires changes in lua-scripts as well
- InteractiveAction: hacking, games, etc. needs a close look and might require
changes. If so, lua-scirpts need Ids and adjustment
- CoolnessbySector: adjustment to AR maps, keeping live-out-the-land-style in
mind, Ingame testing required
-SectorNames: Many new flags, copy and adjust to AR map
7. Data-AR\NPCInventory: Needs to be added. Placement of added merchs to be checked in
lua and see how this
fits AR, so inventory needs adjustment too (might add stuff needed
for new features that in 1.13 can be ordered earlier, don't overdo)
8. Data-AR\Tilesets: This needs to be created for planed map-overhaul and added sectors,
first overall possabilty of this „project" should be checked
9. Data-AR\NpcData: The AR entries here conflict with 1.13, civ54 in AR are smugglers, in
1.13 volunteers. Civ55 apears empty in 1.13 in AR I don't know, maybe
that's Hicks („..feed you to my iguana" ?)
civ53 are both seemingly empty (in file CVB stated that 52 and 53 belong to prisoners), civ52 are prisoners by both.
Why the prisoners are there if allready in 1.13 I don't get.
The smugglers might better be done completely new, a lot of civGroups
have been added.
Here I lack knowledge. I don't know, which civGroup is having which
entry-Nr inhere. Some are obvious, others I'm not sure when I open them
with EditMegaEditor.
Have to relocate a thread I come along, handling with adding civGroups
and sneak-peak into other mods how they have done it and of course ask
here
10. Data-AR\BinaryData: All the entries here for Prof.dat and following are having a newer date
in my version of AR then 1.13, so better keep them
Although I don't know what good for they are. Ain't those values
handled in xmls anyway? If someone has information about this,
I'd be happy. Otherwise I leave those untouched.
Do I need ProfDat to change an npc bodytype or is this handled in
mercprofiles? I've seen bodytypes bigger then 4 in mercprofiles and
don't know where I can get the information which Nr refers to which
bodytype.Hm.
RIS.edt inhere needs to be adjusted. Have to compare with 1.13 if stuff like
ASD is added there.
11. Data-AR\Scripts: Here the real fun is starting. In any case, it seems more doable to just
copy the needed ones out of 1,13 and adjust them.
And there is a lot to adjust and looked up. And checked on map
The locations of added civs, blackmarket, merchs, the room numbers for
brothel rooms and photos, gridNo of Sam-Terminals for covert-ops,
gridNo for games and other interactives
Then trying to find a way if it is possible to add intel and SAM- Hack
for AR-SAMs, since I don't know the possible integers and my attempts
to look for them with the programm VisualStudioCode failed.
And if things even work this way is unclear too. Check if allowed to change a feature
12. Map-Overhaul: I plan to do a map overhaul. Adding buildings, a little more hay for farmers,
etc. I don't plan to change the overall look, but add a little to my liking and
where I think it might be better for playing reasons.
I also plan to add new sectors, for e.g. I'd love to have a harbour. But this
depends on finding/creating sti.files. And I'm no artist and just started this
editing stuff. And before I get into this seriously, I have to check if my
attempt to modernise is realsitic at all. Otherwise I'll do changes for 7609.
Every map of AR is planned to be saved with map-editor of new 1.13
anyway, just to be sure.
13. New Ingame Recruits: I've tested this and think I should be able to add some user-made ones
ingame. Plans haven't reached beyond the idea. Permissions have
to be asked.
14. Adjustment and balancing: This will require heavy ingame testing, to see if changes done by
me, break balance. Weapon and Item Placement, Patrols and
Garrisons, New maps and sectors have to be tested several times.
See how features like environment, diseases, ASD (!) fit together with late airport

Questions: 15. First of all, i don't know if I'm even allowed to do so, in this early stage I haven't
even tried to ask for Jasmine and Bekas permission, or Strohmanns and CVBs. How is this handled correctly? I would ask for permission out of good manners alone, but are there forum rules I have to keep in mind?
16. Have to find out how NPCData civNo.edt is linked to civGroupName
17. Have to find out how NPCdata files are handled at all, links to thread or hints would be
great.
18. Is my assumption that I could leave Prof.dat and following entries alone correct?
19. Where can I find a list of non-fighting bodytypes? PeoEdit doesn't seem to know them
all by name.
20. Can I simply add lines to lua scripts with NotePad++? I once changed values, but changing is different then adding.
21. Is my approach to naive and a whole lot of other things have to be taken in account?
If so, which ones?

A Note:

I hope for feedback ensuring my thoughts and getting some answers and hints for the questions. If I misssed somethings, made false assumptions or you have some advice for me, I'm happy to hear about it. I'm aware that this is , even if I haven't missed something (unlikely), a bunch of work that has a high chance to make me swear and curse a lot. And if you think, it's downright impossible for me don't shy away to tell me, a reason why you think so would be nice though :-)

All credits for AR go to Jasmine and Beka, the Stable Version has been made by Strohmann and the patch by CVB.

I realy like to play AR in the 7609 version combined with sevenfms AI-tweak and in combination with SDO (strohmann). Give it a try.
This will not be possible with the version i'm planing here. It will be another variation, making use of new features provided by stock 1.13

Since I'm new to all of this, I beg for patience. If this turns out to be a realistic aproach, I'll update the roadmap so that others might can use it as kinda template for modernising other older mods (at least to the version of 1.13 i've chosen, the latest I found).


[Updated on: Tue, 26 March 2019 06:20]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357054 is a reply to message #357053] Tue, 26 March 2019 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ortis
Messages:3
Registered:April 2015
Yes!! I've been waiting for someone to do this forever happy aww thumbs up big grin
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357064 is a reply to message #357053] Wed, 27 March 2019 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Status:

Data-AR\TableData:

civGroup.xml taken von 1.13 - Smuggler faction has to be redone, see first post

While trying to change the smugglers faction to something else in map-editor run into editor-problems. Faction (rebel, kingpin, loyalist, etc.)is not changable. Tested editor with standard 1.13 alone, same result. Dig into older downloads, true for other versions, too. The earliest working for me is in r8496, which didn't help much since it doesn't work with the newer version I choose. Sigh, good start. Worst case I have to download several builds to find out what's the last working one and then modernise this one. Which means doing things again, cause flags won't be the same. Asked for help.

mercprofiles.xml taken from 1.13, adjusted Sektors for Maddog, Pablo and Manuel

Data-AR\TableData\map:

Left untouched: Bloodcatpalcement, DeliveryMethods, DynamicRestrictions, Facilities, MovementCosts, Shipping Destination

Cities.xml - only added missing lines for country

SectorNames.xml - quite much, as expected. Taken from 1.13, then filled in Names from AR, sector by sector. Added the prison rooms and missing values for the new cities and sam-sites (if they have been road they didn't have civpopulation, etc), prisonrooms entries adjusted to 1.13 (with written different, prisonroom01 instead of prisonroom). This one sure has to be visited again and needs adjustment regarding new flags.

SAM-Sites - geez. This will be tricky. Adding the AR-Sam-Sites and make them overlapping with the old ones might be tricky. Don't know if the game has more colours for more SAMsites and if I add 5 and 6 I have to recalculate the template. Changed position of terminal in SAMs were it was different from what 1.13xml said, easier this way round

Data-Ar:

modsetting.ini

added Omerta arrival tile
added SanMona KingpinRingTile (has to looked up in map, if true for AR)
added Meduna Queen BasementGridNo (has to be looked up in map if true for AR)
added ASD and EnemyHeli complete
EnemyHeli requires map-editor. GridNo and Tilesets have to looked up.

Looked into:

InteractiveActions.xml - have to dig deeper into this, there might be a way here to at least be possible to shutdown and repair new SAMs, covert-op stuff I doubt to solve quick, I lack the knowledge about Facts in lua-scripts

That's it, I'll try further. Hope the map-editor issue is somehow to solve, otherwise i have to choose another build where an editor is included that allows faction-changing. I reported this and wait for answer. Will do more research the next time.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357065 is a reply to message #357054] Wed, 27 March 2019 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Ortis wrote on Tue, 26 March 2019 08:16
Yes!! I've been waiting for someone to do this forever happy aww thumbs up big grin
Thought so myself. But I allready run into problems and are an amateur. So don't set your hopes to high, to early. I can only promise to try.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357067 is a reply to message #357053] Wed, 27 March 2019 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Last map-editor I could find capable of changing factions is from Jan18 in r8517on2400. This might not be true for your setting, see for yourself. So this will be the version of 1.13 I try to use instead. So it's start over, scrap what I've done so far and do it again. For the sake of readability and to avoid to bore everybody to death, I'll restrain myself from posting long descriptions of what has been done. Every now and then, I'll give a little report on status. If anybody has input concerning my question, that's more then wellcome. Ok, back to comparing xmls and trying to understand lua.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357068 is a reply to message #357067] Wed, 27 March 2019 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
For those that didn't want to wait, here is a thread that contains a link to an allready newer version of AR. Look and decide for yourself.


http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&th=23963&start=0&



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357072 is a reply to message #357068] Thu, 28 March 2019 07:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1931
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
I don't know if Kriplo is still around here, but he might be able to help with your editor or suggest a fix. We used his map editor for Vengeance, though admittedly that was on a 7609 base. I have no issues changing factions in the editor we use.


Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357081 is a reply to message #357053] Thu, 28 March 2019 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
In this thread CVB provides a link to how CivQuotes in Civ.edt (NPCdat) are connected to Civgroups. http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&th=23009&goto=345021&

This is a great help for adding smugglers again, thanks!



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357082 is a reply to message #357072] Thu, 28 March 2019 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Hawkeye wrote on Thu, 28 March 2019 07:18
I don't know if Kriplo is still around here, but he might be able to help with your editor or suggest a fix. We used his map editor for Vengeance, though admittedly that was on a 7609 base. I have no issues changing factions in the editor we use.
I searched for Kriplo with forum search, but no results. But thanks. The editor for 7609 is working for me, too. Used it for customising my own AR-maps, my first babysteps into editing. That's how this whole idea started. I hope that this can be solved someday, maybe it's a problem on my side I'm not aware of. But since other versions are running I simply have no glue what that might be. And for my attempt to understand how to make new features working this will do for now. But sure, would be cooler with a build as recent as possible. For now, I'm actually will consider myself glad if I ever got this working at all. Questions, questions, research, research, testing, testing. But yes, having fun when something works, too. cheeky



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357093 is a reply to message #357053] Fri, 29 March 2019 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Very happy. Due to some very helpful answers by Flugente I should be able to make Volunteers and Disease possible. Thanks!
I also managed to get an action item (bookshelf for starters) working ingame, this is a big step for me and I hope that this will help me with making the AR-SAM-Sites possible, at least to some degree.

Concerning the map-editor I start thinking about doing the faction-changes I want with the 2018 one and then copy those maps to the latest build. If only the faction-tab isn't working, this should be possible. Have to take a look inside the newest map-editor. Also found JA2mapTool(alpha) I wanted to test and feedback the author (TheBob).

Updatet modsettings.ini and all xmls in TableData where nescessary, Sectornames needs finetuning for sure. Checked GridNo of several placed npcs, terminals, etc. This needs some mapediting and some numberchanging. Boring and repitive somehow, but at least this isn't as difficult as other problems I face. Fun here will start while balancing things, I guess.

Still a lot to do for sure, but slowly crawling onwards.

[Updated on: Fri, 29 March 2019 02:55]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357097 is a reply to message #357053] Fri, 29 March 2019 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Whoever is trying to do map-changes for recent 1.13 is highly advised to check lua-scripts entries first . A lot of civilians (must be arround hundred, rough estimate) were added and the new quest has to be taken in regard, too. And since they are added via script, they don't show up in map-editor (unless I'm doing something wrong). I wrote down the sektors and tiles and had to compare to according AR maps. And since AR has more cities and SAMs I also will have to add even more later on.
Taking a close look to what is added this way alone, it's incredible - and I just scratched the surface. The amount of possabilities that are offered now, is just wow. I still have to get a better understanding, but every "Ah, that's how it's done" is followed by a bunch of ideas. And since this is highly distracting I advice everyone to organise better then me. Ok, I'm diving back into the unknown.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357127 is a reply to message #357053] Sun, 31 March 2019 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
@Hawkeye:

Thanks, for pm. I wrote him a message, waiting for answer.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357143 is a reply to message #357053] Tue, 02 April 2019 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Placements done by lua.scripts - check
AR-Sam Sites working with covert-op, ris-mesages for photos, rewards, shutdown,etc -check
New features workable, needs more playtesting - in testing, seemingly ok so far
Nescessary changes xml done - check

Everythin related to map-Editor is sheer pain. While using a shaby workarround for faction changes I'm not sure if causing unforseen problems. Newer editors also mess up tilesets. So, I can't rely on any editor higher then 8517on2400. If this can't be solved by me I'll hit a Dead End.

Reality Check: An updated AR would be a thing if a working, reliable Map-editor could be used. Since I can't do much about this, I have to think if I will finish this for 8517on2400 (doing the balancing and map-changes) or take it as learning experience and call it a day. Due to my restricted knowledge I was aware, that this might end up unsolvable. But having managed all I faced, seeing no major issues while playtesting in 8517 so far, and then fail because of a borked tool that restricts me from doing the last nescessary steps, that's rather frustrating. Being that frustrated I'm not capable of a reasonable decission if and how to go on. It's a sunny day, better do some bicycling now.

[Updated on: Tue, 02 April 2019 18:00]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357146 is a reply to message #357053] Fri, 05 April 2019 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
I gave in to the odd behaviour of the map-editor and tried to go on. Soon after realizing that even things I thought allready accomplished, didn't work. No civivilians showed up in Orta basement (they did in other places, including the ones I changed) and the console-terminals for the two AR-SAMs gave me a text, saying I messsed up the software, software status for sector was 100/0, same way Drassen loooked after hacking. But looking at airspace, Drassen was free, the new ones not. Couldn't find out the reasons.
I asked for permission to update Ar but neither JAsmin, nore Strohmann or CVB answered so far.

Looking into the lua-script placements and structure gave me a glimpse of what is possible and it's cool. I was able to get the volunteer system working, diseases worked, lua-placed persons apeared where I want them to apear (exspect Orta Basement), the merchants worked, starting with late airport is doable, implementing new text for added civGroups and bookshelves, etc. worked. Beside the SAM-Sites, hacking worked wherever I tested. I looked into any map-related stuff I could think of, asked a whole bunch of questions, made a ruckus out of odd map-editor and learned a lot.

I still think this is possible, most things are just work-intensive but not so difficult, but a few real difficulties have set the hurdles too high for me. Map-editor issues were discouraging too. So, I'll end up having to confess that this is beyond my small capabilties and the whole thing lacks permission anyway.

Therefore I stop trying, seems pointless at my curent state of knowledge. Might be easier to do something completly new, then to transfer a given mod.

Sorry for any high-hopes, if you're dissatiesfied I'll encourage you to give it a try.

Thanks to anyone that tried to help!

[Updated on: Fri, 05 April 2019 01:48]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Modernising AR (and other older ones) vs. Reality[message #357409 is a reply to message #357146] Thu, 23 May 2019 19:31 Go to previous message
Kitty

 
Messages:59
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Couldn't let go this. So atm I try to learn more and give it a try again. But better restrain from making to much fuss about it.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
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