Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Weapon & Item Refinement » My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.
Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357256 is a reply to message #357255] Thu, 18 April 2019 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ZedJA2

 
Messages:175
Registered:January 2018
Ok, sorry if it sounds that way. Some of this is also exploratory to find out how some things work. It may sound more as complaints. Remember, it takes playtime to know what you are getting into with such a change. It was a revelation. Anyway, I've got enough options now from various replies.

I can adjust, but it presumes a style of play. I won't comment further on it. I now know enough to figure out the situation, thanks.
Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357259 is a reply to message #357256] Thu, 18 April 2019 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2527
Registered:May 2009
The original "don't drop all" behavior never made any sense to me. It's not like the enemy is using equipment made of porcelain that breaks as soon as he drops dead and only by a miracle some of it stays intact. Also without drop all the living off the land and battles approach (that is forced by some mods) doesn't work very well. So unless the player wants to make the game extra hard he shouldn't play with drop all turned off.

Actually instead of making the equipment vanish there could be a different approach of setting its status to 1 so you can't immediately use it and have to repair it first. This way you would still get some stuff as usual with drop all turned off but you would also get a bunch of crap that can be repaired. With a status of 1 its not worth much but at least you get that nice gun the enemy was using against you before he died. Now you just need a good weapon smith to fix it. With this solution the "don't drop all" would at least make some sense.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357260 is a reply to message #357256] Thu, 18 April 2019 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LatZee

 
Messages:126
Registered:December 2015
Well, in a way, you have bumped into one of worst kept secrets, 1.13 in its current state is kinda messed up if you just install it and try to play cheeky which is completely reasonable, the game has a zillion new features and options, and there is no real focus on making things balanced for less experienced players as there is really no huge influx of new players, considering it's 20 years old game cheeky features like reinforcements and counterattacks being on by default are great for me, but completely over the top for someone new.

All experienced players have their preferences how to deal with it. Practically no one is using it in default state. Many people prefer DROP ALL, which is, as you mentioned, a big game changer. Or start with high Bobby Ray. Looking at some of more high profile members of the 1.13 team, and you'll see some pretty "extreme" solutions. If I remember correctly, Flugente plays the "Trump way", starting with a small loan of couple millions of dollars cheeky Silversurfer prefers the 9 IMPs and Ira start, and so on...

If you want to use shitty MERC guys at start, you'll just have to find the way to adapt the game to your way of playing big grin either that, or get extremely good cheeky nobody can tell you how you should play the game, only you know what is fun level of challenge for you and what you consider fun solutions.

And besides, I can understand the complaints cheeky one of the signs that the game is very good is that it has ability to make you frustrated... Of course, the reverse is not necessarily the truth, a game can be frustrating for a million bad reasons... but a good game will make you invested, and will counter you plans, sometimes in horribly bullshit ways cheeky which is perfectly fine with me, I don't think anyone ever came back from the war and said, oh it was great, everything was so nice and organized and predictable, everything went exactly how we thought it will and there was absolutely no bullshit at all cheeky but there are still moments when I want to bash my head against the wall cheeky

So learn to deal with it cheeky both in game and in setting up the game to play how you want big grin

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357261 is a reply to message #357260] Thu, 18 April 2019 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2527
Registered:May 2009
LatZee wrote on Thu, 18 April 2019 11:42
Silversurfer prefers the 9 IMPs and Ira start, and so on...
Hehe, that was one way to play it. But my usual way was to select a small team of promising mercs like Barry, Blood, Grunty, Buns, Meltdown, Wolf or Nails, just to name a few. I think I never hired those super expensive mercs like Shadow, Reaper or Lynx. By the time I could afford them my team was already good enough that I didn't need the expensive ones anymore.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357273 is a reply to message #357261] Fri, 19 April 2019 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:351
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
"not drop all" does not only make sense because of combat/progression related balance reasons,
drop all also completely destroys financial balance, at least if players commit the despicable act
of selling non defensive military equipment (guns ammo explosives etc) to civil population.

Besides we are speaking of items usually soaked with blood and other fluids that leave the human body on death,
it requires for e.g. weapons more than a field strip & cleaning kit(not to speak of the person willing to do the job)
and probably also more than the mundane tools listed for the tool kit.
Btw which, according to its degrade rate, is probably only a cheap all in one tool
that covers the functions of the various tools listed in the description, placed in a very heavy box. :p


"9 imps"
That is not even possible, a well equipped imp costs already 7k - 8k,
so you cant really afford another imp at start due to the increase by 3k for the 2nd. ;)

[Updated on: Fri, 19 April 2019 13:17]

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357280 is a reply to message #357273] Sat, 20 April 2019 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2527
Registered:May 2009
townltu wrote on Fri, 19 April 2019 12:13
"not drop all" does not only make sense because of combat/progression related balance reasons,
drop all also completely destroys financial balance
"not drop all" doesn't even make sense for these two reasons because the game randomly decides what you get. It could be a Dragunov SVD or a lowly .38 Revolver. This is based purely on luck.
Btw. I have half a mind to implement this "mild drop all" option I was talking about earlier...

townltu wrote on Fri, 19 April 2019 12:13

"9 imps"
That is not even possible, a well equipped imp costs already 7k - 8k,
so you cant really afford another imp at start due to the increase by 3k for the 2nd. ;)
It's not difficult at all. Even on Expert you have 30k Dollars available and each IMP costs 3000$. 9 * 3000$ = 27000$. That's with default game settings.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357282 is a reply to message #357280] Sat, 20 April 2019 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CareBear

 
Messages:117
Registered:April 2016
Maybe we let people play the game as they want? Drop all dont destroy financial balance if you change selling prices to be low, you can already make ton of profit by muling weapons to tony and sell them there. And playing without "drop all the items" you are more dependent on bobby ray and traders which really doesnt suit the guerilla theme living off the land.
Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357297 is a reply to message #357280] Mon, 22 April 2019 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:351
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
silversurfer wrote on Sat, 20 April 2019 19:48
...
Btw. I have half a mind to implement this "mild drop all" option I was talking about earlier...
Thank you very much for making it a new option, I will certainly give it a try, more out of curiosity,
but the mere thought of being forced to manage the loot drops if only "drop all" and "mild drops" were left available
would have been pretty horrific. ;)


Quote:
"9 imps"
That is not even possible, a well equipped imp costs already 7k - 8k,
so you cant really afford another imp at start due to the increase by 3k for the 2nd. ;)
Quote:
It's not difficult at all. Even on Expert you have 30k Dollars available and each IMP costs 3000$. 9 * 3000$ = 27000$. That's with default game settings.
Well it was not really that serious, and I tried to indicate (unsuccessfully) it with the [;)] at the end
and for insiders also the "that is not even possible", the "cant cast that spell right now" message from a wiz8 speechset.
(pretty sure it was imported to JA2 a while ago)
So if I may continue on that path:
Wait, are you seriously suggesting that there are people who play the game at a lower difficulty than insane?
And do not even give some love to D's soldiers in the config files? :D


Seriously, even with dynamic profile costs = true,
30k for the last of the 10 people is imo quite low (300$/day for a 24/7 emergency service in a 100 day campaign)
at least when compared to salaries for aim personnel, etc.

[Updated on: Mon, 22 April 2019 21:46]

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357298 is a reply to message #357297] Mon, 22 April 2019 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2527
Registered:May 2009
townltu wrote on Mon, 22 April 2019 20:46

Wait, are you seriously suggesting that there are people who play the game at a lower difficulty than insane?
Yeah and those are the ones who aren't complaining. cheeky

townltu wrote on Mon, 22 April 2019 20:46

And do not even give some love to D's soldiers in the config files? big grin
I'm playing with a heavily modified Experienced level. That's what I actually love about DifficultySettings.xml despite its implementation flaws.

townltu wrote on Mon, 22 April 2019 20:46

30k for the last of the 10 people is imo quite low (300$/day for a 24/7 emergency service in a 100 day campaign)
at least when compared to salaries for aim personnel, etc.
I play this option with a different idea in my head. This is MY team and the 3k dollars per soldier are just a fee to get us started. Enrico promised us that we can keep whatever money we can make from loot so this is actually a good deal. happy

Back to topic. The new "Mild Drop All" should solve the issues of not getting better weapons/gear and not having enough ammo. You can even make a little bit of money from what you don't want to keep. So Lev Arris' version 1 files should be playable better now for those who don't want the full Drop All. The only thing players may need now are more cleaning/tool kits but I think it's better to have something to clean/repair instead of getting a whole lot of nothing.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357305 is a reply to message #357298] Wed, 24 April 2019 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ZedJA2

 
Messages:175
Registered:January 2018
There is an option in one of the various files, I believe, that controls the damage done on an enemy dropping a weapon upon death. It might be in DifficultySettings.xml, or whatever the other ones are called (I never remember the exact name). But I saw the option when I set up my this campaign a while back. I remember that I changed it and it did work. So in some way, the "Mild Drop All" may be partly implemented already.

Found the line in version 8646 DifficultySettings.xml :

LootStatusModifier : When opponents drop their equipment on death it gets damaged by this random amount. Usually the higher the difficulty level the higher the possible damage. : 0 - 100

Not sure if it works with DROP ALL, but I believe it does.

{After posting, I see that SilverSurfer may have already implemented another option in the later directory (8675) builds per the Absurdly Small Changes in Flugente's Magicka Workshop. This post was made prior to my reading the change. I'm not sure how or if they will work together or override each other. }

[Updated on: Wed, 24 April 2019 08:06]

Re: My Attempts at Re-Designing 1.13 Weapon Progression.[message #357306 is a reply to message #357305] Wed, 24 April 2019 12:19 Go to previous message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2527
Registered:May 2009
The <LootStatusModifier> applies to items dropped by enemies. It is used for all three drop options. It simply modifies the item status before it is dropped but of course it will only modify the status of items that ARE dropped. "Mild Drop All" will damage previously undroppable items by 60 points in general. On top of that comes a random value from the <LootStatusModifier>. On higher difficulties the status will be at 1 or near to it because <LootStatusModifier> is 20 (experienced), 40 (expert) or 60 (insane). So you can even adjust the final status of those "broken" items yourself by changing <LootStatusModifier> to your liking.

Btw. I thought about lowering the repair threshold by the same amount but decided against it. The threshold is already lowered (depends on the final item status) and I believe that the player should be able to get the item into a working condition by spending time and cleaning kits. Tool kits and a specialist or an NPC are still required to increase the repair threshold so it's still quite an investment that one has to do in order to use such item.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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