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Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357234 is a reply to message #356635] Tue, 16 April 2019 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
@ Fan: You mentioned 1.13 AR. I could find the others you mentioned, but not this one. I have tried to update AR to newest 1.13 recently, but failed big because of lacking knowledge and tools that drove me mad. So I will try to improve my knowledge and then may try it again. But if there is allready a 1.13 AR thats probaly rather useless. And since you've been involved in creating AR, if I understood correctly, do you know what is the status of permission to update and/or tweak AR. I've tried to pm JAsmin. Strohmann and CVB asking about permission, but no answer so far (which was another reason I stopped trying to update for now). So if there is a 1.13 AR I would be very interested how it was done for learning reasons. Or did I misunderstood your answer to Gask3t and there is no 1.13 AR?

I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357283 is a reply to message #357234] Sat, 20 April 2019 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:December 2015
I think he was talking primarily about mods like Urban Chaos or Deidrana Lives which predate 1.13, but have later been recreated on 1.13 base, so there is both a standalone UC mod for vanilla JA2 and a 1.13 UC version built from it. Unlike them, AR has always been 1.13 mod, there is no standalone version. So there is no other version, 1.13 AR is the only one that exists.

Strohmann's version (+ CVB fixes) is latest there (publically cheeky) is, and should still be, well, almost usable with latest SCI, if you ignore newer features. So that should be your starting point. Also, you probably shouldn't worry about permissions, Strohmann never had any from Jasmine, CVB didn't from Strohmann neither... that's the nature of projects like this, people come, people go. So, be respectful, don't try to pass other people's work as you own, and everything should be alright.

So, what is bothering you with tools? I see you mention editor problems which i can't replicate (just dropped Data-AR into clean latest SCI installation and editor seems to work normally), but honestly do you even need the editor? Quick look tells me that no map have been touched in base 1.13 since 2012, so whatever new features were added since the creation of Strohmann's version probably don't need changing anything on the maps. That means that Notepad++ (or any other text editor of your choice) should be the only tool you need.

Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357291 is a reply to message #357283] Mon, 22 April 2019 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway
Hello to everyone, haven't been around in a while....
I am away from my good pc where 1.13 + AR run fine. I am trying to set it up on an old pc that works on Windows XP and i see some issues....

The welcome screen for AR, the one with all the vegetation, doesn't show, instead it shows the classic screen with the 1.13 logo.
Also, when looking through the roster, the alumni, both in AIM and Merc, have all of their stats at 0. Furthermore, when i try to contact them in AIM, they do have voice but their mouths do not move, neither do they change expressions. My guess is that something is amiss or i am doing something wrong. Perhaps both.
It would appear that Dimitri's mod, Deadly game mercs with voices , it's included in the AR 1.4 or the Stable 1.13 with the 7609 update, just doesn't work properly for some reason.
Any advice, tips, hints can be helpful. Also, if someone can point me to a place where i can download Dimitri's Deadly Games with Voices mod, it will be grant. I have been scouring the Pit, Kermi's depository and the internet in general, with no success sadly.
Thank you all in advance for all the support and possible help.

[Updated on: Mon, 22 April 2019 11:47]

Just another old soldier.
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357292 is a reply to message #357291] Mon, 22 April 2019 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Here's the Deadly Games mercs thread, some of the downloads still seem to be available, though not sure which one you'd need.


Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357295 is a reply to message #357283] Mon, 22 April 2019 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
@ LatZee: Thanks for answer. So I misunderstood what is meant by 1.13 mod. Lack of english skills on my side, I guess.

The permissioon thing sounds good, I sure didn't want to pass things as my own. And as you hint that there are non-publically version, that gives me hope that I might figure out a way, too.

As for tools, I'd say my biggest problem is the human factor, that's me. I lack to much knowledge by now.
I started with zero knowledge. Just looking into the scripts and xmls of 1.13 and mods and then using trial and error to find out what is happening. And reading threads and ask questions. Map-editor works just fine, only the factions can't be changed by any editor higher then 8517. I needed to change the smuggler faction of AR since it otherwise collide with factions added by 1.13 after AR release (and plan to expand them a little, to make them "useful" anyhow, make the decission if to attack them or not a little more tricky. I found a way by just using 8517 to do this and then copy the maps to 8673 and do the other changes. That's doable, but rather unconvinient. Like, if I changed factions this way and then changed item-placement and then wanted to do another faction change on the map I basicly throw away item-placement by doing the faction change with older editor if I use the newer items like facemask, camera, etc. needed for newer features. And made me unease with using map-editor, since I didn't know if there are might be other things not working too. So, that said, it is very cool that you said, you couldn't reproduce it. That gave me a hint that I, again, should look into my installment, although I don't know what might be the problem. But it is a first hint, so thanks.
As for mapss themselves, you are right there haven't been much cahnges needed, just adding a desktop-pc where 1.13 lua-scripts refering to one and AR maps don't have them and other rather cosmetical stuff . Changing placements, like you said, can be done with notepad++ and a lot of patience and typing - but again, I needed to find out by trial and error how this works. But that's probably the way everybody has to start.
Other tools like sti-editor or jsd-edit also were/are though to undertand for me, but those are completely lack of knowledge on my side and I learned allready more about them.
Some features like overlapping airspace with more sam-sites then the vanilla ones might never by solveable by me alone, I finally found a way to shut them down with covert-op feature hacking, but by doing so, the second airspace-tab shows no colour for them, no more colours available, as far as I understood (Ineed numbers higher then 32 and those are not available and I have no clue at all how to add colours, that might need coding skills which I lack totally - but yes, I bought a book for C++ starters, so, you see, I realy try to learn)).
Other things like changing item-attachments or so, are still on my list, but I haven't looked much into it and don't want to change tooo much anyway. Just being able to put lockpicks or other small stuff in the trousers or vests might be cool, but on the other hand I've seen recently that AV isa doing this and I don't want to steal ideas. Anyway, I won't look into this before having finished to solve my basic problems.
Like I said, my biggest is my lacking knowledge, the human factor. So I'd rather keep learning stuff for a while now and try to apply to my little project. But keep otherwise a little more quiet about it until I can show some results. I like to ramble too much. which might can be seen in my recent posts - human factor again :-)

[Updated on: Mon, 22 April 2019 20:24]

I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357296 is a reply to message #357295] Mon, 22 April 2019 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:December 2015
Well, in all that, you might split that project into two parts, one would be just updating AR to be fully compatible with latest SCIs, and then additionaly add your own twist as an addon. That way, you'd give people choice if they happen to not like your changes/additions but like "original" AR.

Issues with factions I think were solved by CVB, he moved the smugglers to spot 23 in CivGroupNames.xml (that is kept empty to leave space for UC factions) and updated maps, so that shouldn't be a problem, but if he missed something, using older editor shouldn't be a problem.

MercProfiles.xml is out of date also, but that is easily fixable by just grabbing the new one and changing locations of Manuel and Maddog (and possible some other people that I forgot cheeky). That should be all that's needed.

SectorNames.xml needs updating to add support for some newer features like militia volunteers, mine workers and bandit raids. I've actually done that by just taking the values from WF maps and adjusting locations. So if you haven't been through that, I can send it to you.

SamSites.xml might be problematic. Not neccessarily because it's complicated, but because last time I took a look, it seemed to me that coverage for SAM sites 5 and 6 doesn't work at all (or at least doesn't show at air control map). Might be Flugente changed some things when adding that overlapping feature and didn't expect more than standard 4 SAM sites, so someone more familiar with the code might have to take a look.

That should probably be all the xml work needed to bring AR to par with new SCI. That leaves only other 90% of work to do, namely Lua scripts cheeky

Without taking a closer look, I think that mainly 4 things need to be looked at there: Hacking, new merchants, intel, and quests generally. Might be I forgot something, of course cheeky

Hacking I never gave a try neither took a real look at scripts, so really can't tell anything about it cheeky it might be fixable by just adjusting locations in Lua script, or things might need to be added on maps, so editor.

New merchants shouldn't be a problem, it just a question of looking through maps and updating their locations in the script so they aren't placed in stupid positions.

Intel is similiar, most stuff should work out of the box, only locations where you need to take photos should have to be updated. It is again, just checking the map and adjusting the script... for example, if a script for Drassen SAM photo says it should be taken in room number 6 (numbers pulled straight out of my ass cheeky), on AR maps, SAM computer might be in room 15 or something, so just those room numbers need to be changed, and posibly added for additional SAMs and/or other noteworthy attractions cheeky

And last, but certainly not least, quests. Now, in theory AR was designed to work with standard quests, so quest related stuff is not moved from the locations on vanilla maps, and then the rest of changes are built around that. So quests should just work... in practice, quests were always the most finicky part, so that would probably require a fair bit of testing.

And then, you could start on doing whatever else you want, but with that I'm not going to be much help as my knowledge of STI/JSD stuff is really limited cheeky
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357299 is a reply to message #357296] Tue, 23 April 2019 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Thanks for the detailed answer!

Splitting things up might be better, letting people choose is a fair point. And it'll probably save me some time, too.

I wanted to leave 23 in civGroups free like done in 1.13. And Flugente added a bunch of other script placed groups i didn't want to mess with. At the momemnt I put smugglers into group 100, just to be save if he adds 30 more next week (which probably would be cool) happy After my first impression, that this will hinder me to do things, I cooled down and see using two mapeditors rather as an annoying, but totally working thing. But yeah, still annoying (still have to look into my installment again). I also intend to add more factions, mostly just for adding and/or altering story. Depends also on if I find out how to edit the emails, which seems to be hardcoded and therefore out of reach for me now.

So far I made changes to mercprofiles, sectornames, movement costs xmls(also needed for volunteers to define a farm as farm and for diseases to define swamp as swamp and so on, Flugente kindly pointed me to this). For sectornames I just used 1.13 and added the missing AR sectors and changed names where needed. Same with mercprofiles, took 1.13 and just changed the placements of maddog, manuel, etc.
For hacking, script added merchants and photos I allready checked the tiles of placement, roomnumbers, direction of sam-terminals, etc. in AR and compared to 1.13 and started to change numbers in scripts where nescessary and added pc-furniture where missing. Most could be left untouched, but I looked up all anyway. This requires some more ingame testing to see if and how it works. For instance, I allready realized that script added npcs in basements seemingly doesn't work as I thought, needs further investigation. In factories AR added npcs as workers, that collide with script added factory-workers in some places, too. Probably I should clean all AR maps from items and npc's anyhow and then add back later. Still need to find out if script-added npcs are count towards the max-placement in editor or instead to max in civs per sector in ja2ini. And I have to look at Orta again, the placemts of needed stuff for some stuff is working, for others not - maybe I typed the wrong numbers or something else went wrong. And Orta is rather important for hacking featutre, don't want to mess it up.

For Flugentes Bountyhunt quest I had to change some maps of AR, otherwise the bountyhunters would spawn in walls or in deep water lake. And I have to look into dynamic-restrictions.xml. Militia is handled different in recent builds and doesn't have this xml anymore, needs some testing on my side.

modsettings-ini also has new entries, e.g. ASD helicopter. I also still need to add heli-stis to meduna airport for ASD and change estoni map, since heli otherwise would land halfway in a building if in tactiacal and landed. And I'm pretty sure, that after more ingame testing I'll come across more things.

sam-sites are somehow handled different now. they have to be named 1,2,4,8 and so on - that's what xml-description says. So sam 5 and 6 need to be 16 and 32 in the row-table at the end of xml. Otherwise they won't shoot down skyrider (probably not working at all, I assume. At least thats what I think after testing other numbers). But since AR added a couple of computers and alike itself, I might can produce a cheesy story on them to explain lacking colours in airspace-view (something like "run by navy, uses different software and deflection" or simular meh). Anyhow, I'm glad I was able to make them work at all and being able to shut them down by hacking.

All this extra computers should be given some text (make lua-entries for them) or they will produce just standard text from 1.13 which might be odd. This might be a tricky part for splitting things up.
I also experimented with adding new mercs (in MERC and on map), needs some more testing and again - split up.

And you are absolutely right, 90% is lua-scripts (mostly overhead and strateticmap). Which works much better since i use notepad++ instead of standard windows notepad happy

Most of the typing allready is done, but testing has to be done in real-game, sofar I have tested while in cheat mode. This most likely will result in some more typing. And to avoid doing item-placement over and over again, I decided to do this as a last step (at least things like camera and facemask which are connected to newer features should be added in early game maps/merchants since one can't order them due to late bobby ray). Other changes I should really split up. And since RL also has to be lived, all this will need some time happy

I also started to change some tilesets. Adding heli-sti, sandbags and concertina where needed and wanted. And most of all I realy would love to expand the military harbour and need boats for this. I made some pixel-drawn boats out of truck-sti and even some bigger ones, but struggle with jsd. Got some advive from hawkeye on this and have to try if I'm capable to follow. This also should file under "split up".

So, thanks again for detailed answer, that reasured me that I'm not completly thinking wrong what needs to be done, highly wellcomed feedback- thanks. And most of all for advising to split things up. The moment I read it, I thought, geez- this is so obvious, sigh. suprised

And uups, I rambled on again - sorry folks, might be a build-in feature of mine. shy

[Updated on: Tue, 23 April 2019 03:05]

I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357303 is a reply to message #357299] Tue, 23 April 2019 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:December 2015
Well, you seem to be pretty solidly on top of things then, so giving up shouldn't be an option cheeky

As for factions, 23 and 24 will always be left open in base 1.13 because UC 1.13 version uses them for their additional factions. Since using both AR and UC at the same time is not something that anyone will ever do as it makes no sense, using that space is pretty fine, and shouldn't be a problem, but, hey, do things your way big grin

As for SAM sites 5 and 6, I think that at some point I converted the xml file into the new format (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32) and it might even work correctly in the game (as for actually shooting things down), but that overlapping air control map is not showing it at all. If i had to guess, I'd guess that Flugente defined colors for SAMs 1, 2, 4 and 8, and their combinations, but not for additional SAM sites above that, so that is probably unsolvable by modding means alone at this point.

When you think that you have things ready for some additional testing, put it up somewhere, might give it a run or two big grin
Re: Arulco Revisited Mod[message #357345 is a reply to message #357303] Sun, 05 May 2019 20:32 Go to previous message

Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
One of my major traits is being stubborn, sadly combined with a minor trait low frustration. For the good and the bad... happy

I slowly crawl on. Just wanted to add that if I say most is lua, this includes finding out which xmls are connected to some lua-stuff. Like adding script-merchants needs lua and merchants.xml as well as entries in additionaldealerinventory, even the blackmarket needs a bllank entrie in additionalinventory, although it's inventory is handled in lua. So, it's a slow, time consumimg process with a lot of trial-and-error, the worlds oldest scientific method.

But since I started focussing a little more on doing a AR-Update alone (before expanding it later on) it went faster. Until I got sucked into a problem and my thoughts stroll away to some "hm-might-be-possible-let's-try".

I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
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