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briefcase11.png  1.13 Tileset editing [message #358896] Thu, 30 January 2020 03:55 Go to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
I'm about to dive back into map editing for a forthcoming, ambitious 1.13 based mod and wanted to ask a few questions regarding tilesets used in current builds. Some may know I'm familiar with how tilesets work but wanted to double check where files are in some of the more recent unstable builds as things have changed since 7609.

At the moment I currently have unstable 8730 installed as a base, which will no doubt be updated later if need be. This mod will hopefully be for the latest builds.

What I want to ask is;

Is the unstable build still using data from the JA2set.dat as base? (As in the Vanilla folder BINARY DATA)

I take it the latest tilesset data is using the JA2set.dat.xml (Which is in 'Data-1.13' parent folder)

So just to clarify does the unstable use both these files? Or is the old JA2set.dat just obsolete/legacy?

Also looking at the tileset folders in Data (Vanilla), Data-1.13 and Data-UB all contain the extended tilesets from Unfinished Business (tilesets 50-59)
Is there any reason these tiles are duplicated in all three folders? Especially that Vanilla data folder?

I also see there are further empty tileset slots up to #69 in the externalised JA2set.dat.xml so I take it these slots can be used for new, unique tilesets?

Can further tilesets be added past #69?

If a new tileset is created specifically for this new mod, where can I save that data? Do I overwrite the JA2set.dat.xml in the 'Data-1.13' parent folder? Or can it be stored elsewhere, like when Vengeance used it's own Data-Maps-Tiles folder?

Any help with this would be appreciated, and may prove useful to others in the long run.

[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:56] by Moderator



Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358900 is a reply to message #358896] Thu, 30 January 2020 11:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
I can't tell much about the technical stuff involved, but while trying to create an expanded AR for recent builds I did as follows and that kinda worked.

Quote:
Is the unstable build still using data from the JA2set.dat as base? (As in the Vanilla folder BINARY DATA)
It is still used, I created new tilesets and put them into JA2set.dat at BinaryData-Folder of Data-AR (in my case).
The new tileset is fully useable in mapEditor this way.

However,

Quote:
I take it the latest tilesset data is using the JA2set.dat.xml (Which is in 'Data-1.13' parent folder)
some of the new features, like ASD-Helicopter need the JA2set.dat.xml (see description in feature-thread and mod_settings.ini).

So I ended up using both. Meaning I did all the map-working stuff with JA2set.dat in BinaryData and then filled in the used tiles in JA2set.dat.xml.
This seems to be working sofar. Before I realized that newer features needed this I did with JA2set.dat only and haven't even realized it before I stumbled
across the mod_settings description. A test then showed that it (ASD-Helicopter) won't work without the xml.

Quote:
So just to clarify does the unstable use both these files? Or is the old JA2set.dat just obsolete/legacy?
Based on this experience I'd say that both are used. This statement is based on experience alone, I don't know the theory behind it.
That's also based on the ini-setting if xml is used or not. So newer features most likely require this ini-setting to be true.
Probably with setting true, the xml replaces the dat, but to verify this somebody with code knowledge is needed.


Quote:
Also looking at the tileset folders in Data (Vanilla), Data-1.13 and Data-UB all contain the extended tilesets from Unfinished Business (tilesets 50-59)
Is there any reason these tiles are duplicated in all three folders? Especially that Vanilla data folder?
Don't know either.


Quote:
I also see there are further empty tileset slots up to #69 in the externalised JA2set.dat.xml so I take it these slots can be used for new, unique tilesets?

Can further tilesets be added past #69?
Somewhere I read that up to 200 tilests can be used, sadly I can't find it anymore. In AIMAS 100 tilests are used, but that may be a special case, don't know.
For expanded AR I'm currently up to slot 71 and it seems to work. But since it's w.i.p. better take in others knowledge as well.


Quote:
If a new tileset is created specifically for this new mod, where can I save that data? Do I overwrite the JA2set.dat.xml in the 'Data-1.13' parent folder? Or can it be stored elsewhere, like when Vengeance used it's own Data-Maps-Tiles folder?
I put all data into Data-AR folder which should be the highest priority in vfs for AR and this seems to be working.


Hope this is somehow helpful, but like I said only based on my sole experience. If there are people with more knowledge about this, I'll be curious to hear more myself.

Btw, it sounds realy exiting that you plan to do a new 1.13 mod. Looking forward for it.

[Updated on: Thu, 30 January 2020 14:54]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358903 is a reply to message #358900] Fri, 31 January 2020 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Thanks, I did notice the comments regarding the JA2setdat.xml after writing this post.

Did you have any issues getting the UB tilesets working? As in switching a map's tileset from Vanilla to UB? Mine crashed, and another developer has had issues, but looking I believe there's some missing tiles. I recall eons ago the extended tilesets required every tile including anything from the GENERIC 00 tileset that wasn't overwritten. I know this is different from how the tileset system works in the original 00-49 tileset, but may mean anything from 50 onward needs more files. I'll see if it works by replacing the ones I see in the xml but are missing in the tileset.

Things are busy in the modding world down here. I've been working on an update to Fight For Freedom, Vengeance is still being tweaked and this new project sounds like it could be a biggie.


Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358904 is a reply to message #358903] Fri, 31 January 2020 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
As suspected, it seems the missing Sti's were causing the crash.

At the moment I have only checked tileset 55 POWERPLANT which requires these tiles to work;

newbank
deeplake
weeds_1
roadtile
debrocks
sweeds
miniweed

These should be included with the install if you want others to be able to use the UB tilesets. I suspect the others in 50-59 will have the same issue.

Give me a shout if you want a zip with those files. Depre' might be interested too, if he still visits here.


Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358906 is a reply to message #358904] Fri, 31 January 2020 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Quote:
As in switching a map's tileset from Vanilla to UB?
I haven't tried it this way. But maybe I misunderstood, you are going to switch Vanilla to UB or UB to Vanilla?

Quote:
I recall eons ago the extended tilesets required every tile including anything from the GENERIC 1 tileset that wasn't overwritten
My assumption is, that the game first reads the tileset.slf specified in "Libaries" in vfs-config.ini, then the ones specified in "DataPaths" in vfs-config.ini.
Where the Tileset-Folders in the DataPaths-Folders overwrite each other in order given in vfs-config.

In standard 1.13 the Path for Data-UB is not included in this DataPaths, if you look into vfs-config for UB-113 the UB and UB-113-Folders are included (but Data-UB-113 doesn't contain any tilesets)
and Data-UB-Folder (which contains the complete UB-tilesets) has the highest priority, if I'm not mistaken.

The 50+ Tilests in Data-113 are not the complete UB-tilesets and I honestly have no idea why they are even included in Data113\tilesets since no vanilla-map is using those tilesets
and when UB is played the tilesets are used from Data-UB\tilesets.

Since Folder 50 in Data-113\tilesets is incomplete, it will miss the stuff you mentioned and maybe even more. The sti-files you mentioned are normally included in Generic 1, I extracted the Data\tilesets.slf and they are in Folder 0. They are also included in Data-UB\tilests\50 (allready extracted). But since vanilla-113 doesn't call for Data-UB in vfs-config, files will be missing.

Folder 50 (Mountain Snow) also seems to be the default tileset for Folders 51-59 at least. From 60 on map-editor is spelling Genric 1 as default again. But I haven't paid much attention to this,
so better take this as a little vague. It's more a faint memory and quick peak into map-editor then solid testing.

For the missing sti-files you might can change vfs-config of your mod to include the UB-tilesets this way, but that may also overwrite stuff it shouldn't or create a new folder with complete UB-tilesets
and include it in vfs-config. Or copy stuff from Data-UB\tilests into Data\yourMod\tilesets. Given your experience you might know better then me how to implement stuff, but that's what I would try to do.
As far as I know, all the vfs-related stuff is the same for stable and unstable versions, should be just like you know from VR.

In my case, I just left all the UB-stuff untouched (I recall to have read you did the same for VR, that's why I decided not to mess with those happy ). I simply started adding new tilests from Folder 60 onwards and when I felt like I need snow, generators or sewers I just put the according files from UB into my new tilesets. Sofar I haven't experience any crashs are odd stuff with tilesets 60+.

If dealing with basements, keep initunderground.lua and undergroundsectornames.lua in mind. Those can also cause some issues, took my a while to fix AR-secret sectors/passages which are partly underground (besides the map-editor work).

I don't know if this realy comparable, but in AIMAS-bigmaps there are 100 tilests used and the Folders 50-59 are also completly replaced. But tilesets for bigmaps might be special case.

When I finally give the plain update for AR a go, I will return to the more expanded version of the AR-update, then I will be deeper in the matter of extra added tilesets again and will keep this in mind.

Besides proving my tendencies for rambling, I hope to also have provided some helpful information.

[Updated on: Fri, 31 January 2020 18:50]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358907 is a reply to message #358906] Sat, 01 February 2020 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Thanks, there seems to be a number of variables there. Perhaps the VFS system is clouding things a little.

Basically, I was looking at if I wanted to use the UB tilesets for a Vanilla map. Currently out of the box if I load Omerta then choose one of the UB tilesets from the Cactus tree icon to replace it's existing tileset the editor will crash, this is because it doesn't have all the necessary .sti's in those tileset folders. And like you say it gets more confusing that currently we have UB tiles in all three folders, (Data, Data-1.13 and Data_UB.)

At the moment it's not a huge issue, but will confuse others starting from scratch, I'm sure.

So far this new mod is using around 100 tilesets too, something I wasn't aware of that was possible but Vengeance did things differently or had more limitations back then. Previous mapper has had issues with UB tilesets though.

Vengeance in fact did overwrite UB tiles, we had no need for snow, so our custom tilesets overwrote a few of the UB tilesets, no issues. My tileset guidelines originally suggested not messing with the 00 Generic tileset as it will have a knock-on effect for others, which may be what you were thinking of. You still can edit it, but it's not recommended unless you really have to, or really know what you are doing.


Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358908 is a reply to message #358907] Sat, 01 February 2020 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2746
Registered:May 2009
Hawkeye wrote on Sat, 01 February 2020 05:08
Thanks, there seems to be a number of variables there. Perhaps the VFS system is clouding things a little.

Basically, I was looking at if I wanted to use the UB tilesets for a Vanilla map. Currently out of the box if I load Omerta then choose one of the UB tilesets from the Cactus tree icon to replace it's existing tileset the editor will crash, this is because it doesn't have all the necessary .sti's in those tileset folders. And like you say it gets more confusing that currently we have UB tiles in all three folders, (Data, Data-1.13 and Data_UB.)
I don't know how tilesets work but couldn't you do it like WF maps did it? There all the required files are in the "Data-WildFire6.07\tilesets" folder, a single place with everything the mod needs.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358909 is a reply to message #358907] Sat, 01 February 2020 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Quote:
Currently out of the box if I load Omerta then choose one of the UB tilesets from the Cactus tree icon to replace it's existing tileset the editor will crash, this is because it doesn't have all the necessary .sti's in those tileset folders
I'm using the program "ja2tse110" for editing the ja2set.dat. In the readme of this I found this:

"On the left side of the screen is a box which displays the tilesets. To change the name of a tileset double click on it. You will see that tilesets 1 through 49 originate from tileset 0 which means that the empty entry's (in the box on the right) are replaced by the entry's from tileset 0 by the game. When handling a JA2SET.DAT file from UB you will see that the same thing happens for entry's above 49; tilesets 51 through 69 originate from tileset 50"

That's what I meant with this:

Quote:
Folder 50 (Mountain Snow) also seems to be the default tileset for Folders 51-59 at least. From 60 on map-editor is spelling Genric 1 as default again
Like you see, I'm not 100% sure about this. The readme stated that 51-69 originate from folder 50. But when I use map-editor to open my map with tileset 60 and do a mouseover on generic, a.k.a. empty entries in ja2set.dat, the map-editor shows "from DEFAULT GENERIC 1" on top and not "HEAVY SNOW" like it should when the readme is right. On map, the crates, which I didn't replace, are the wooden ones and not the snow-covered ones, so I assumed it realy is from Generic 1. But yes, there are a still lot of questionmarks popping up above my head.

In most parts the files in Folder 0 and Folder 50 are identical, my suggestion would be that the files stored in Folder 50 in Data113\tilesets are the ones that differ, the ones specific for UB (a bunch of them has the prefix "2" for e.g.). But I haven't compared them in detail and that still gives me no hint why they are stored there in first place.

What I'm trying to say is, that the folder 50 seems, to some degree, seems to act like default folder 0 for the folders above 50. But my visual reference for this, map-editor, doesn't seem to act this way (at least from 60 onwards).
Since it's a cold, rainy weekend over here I'll do some testing later on, this is starting to make me curious and would allow me to use those slots as well in future. shy
I also will look into Generic 2 since I'm curious why it is also called Generic? Just some sloppy copy-paste naming by the developers or is this one feeding files as well?
Also, the wording "When handling a JA2SET.DAT file from UB" kinda puzzles me, none of us is using precisly the Ja2set.dat from UB . Might just be the wording, but maybe more.

----------------

Silversurfer:
Quote:
I don't know how tilesets work but couldn't you do it like WF maps did it? There all the required files are in the "Data-WildFire6.07\tilesets" folder, a single place with everything the mod needs.
I support Silversurfer on this, seems to be less pain then doing changes to vfs.

Like in

Quote:
Or copy stuff from Data-UB\tilests into Data\yourMod\tilesets
If you try to copy the content of folder 50 from Data-UB \tilesets into folder 50 of Data-NewMod\tilesets, in theory, this new folder 50 then should act as Default for empty entries in ja2set.dat for folders 51-59. And since it contains the sti-files you mentioned this should be working. My assumption so far is, that any other folder then 51 to 59 is feeded by Generic 1, maybe my later testing can provide a more solid statement.

------------

For vfs you may wan't to ask sevenfm, he did some astonishing stuff with libary-Paths and DataPaths in his modpack that went beyond what I've seen in other mods.

-----------

Also, regarding general work on your new mod, if you are doing this for newest builds I can tell from experience that you will have to deal with a bunch of lua-files (content for hacking, reading and placements of script-added personal like radar technicans, secretaries, merchands, bountyhunters for new maria/angel-quest,blackmarket-intel-dealer etc.) and the xml-files those lua-files are connected to. Otherwise for pc's you'll only get "xy starts hacking" and no action is happening (and it has to be done for each and every pc you placed on map you wish to have content for), and the placements will be all over the place on changed maps, ranging from annoying places to breaking places and so on. So it is more then just the underground-luas I mentioned. Yesterday I started to update some comments in my lua-files for AR to tell others what I did and why.


Quote:
At the moment it's not a huge issue, but will confuse others starting from scratch, I'm sure
Since I am one of those starting from scratch, I can absolutely verify this. And this is just the peak of an iceberg I'm facing since starting happy

-----------

I'll give feedback on my testing.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 February 2020 16:47]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358928 is a reply to message #358908] Tue, 04 February 2020 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Quote:

I don't know how tilesets work but couldn't you do it like WF maps did it? There all the required files are in the "Data-WildFire6.07\tilesets" folder, a single place with everything the mod needs.
I'm not familiar with Wildfire, Silver, though Vengeance had it's own data maps tiles folder. Though a single folder in one place for tilesets sounds good I think it might be more difficult to narrow down an issue if there is a bug in one particular tileset. It seems there' a few ways of doing things these days which I'm still evaluating.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 February 2020 07:27]



Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358986 is a reply to message #358928] Mon, 10 February 2020 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
@Hawkeye


https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/trunk/Documents/1.13%20Modding/How%20it%20works/JA2%20UB%20Tilesets.png


Regarding UB-tilesets replacing JA2-tilesets, I found this

Toggle Spoiler


From

Wanne-UB-Tilesets



Apparently this has made it into trunk-Data-113\tilesets at some point in time. At least, that would explain why UB-tilesets are at this place too.

[Updated on: Mon, 10 February 2020 17:42]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358987 is a reply to message #358986] Mon, 10 February 2020 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stavian

 
Messages:111
Registered:February 2019
Location: Philly/DC
Kitty,

Thank you! Any idea how to do this step: Maps created with the UB editor or original UB campaign maps need to be
converted to JA2 format first.

That has been the part that has been kicking my butt. I would like to look at the maps that are UB and see what they have and such but I cannot get them to open in editor. Even if I have/or think I have all the tile-sets.

Stavian
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358998 is a reply to message #358987] Tue, 11 February 2020 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Yes, the UB tiles added by Snap many years ago was what I was familiar with and what Vengeance used as a base. There is still the issue that you can't use these in 1.13 out of the box. Some tiles are missing that are defined in the xml. I found if I traced those missing files and added them the editor will no longer crash when reassigning/swapping a tileset.


Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #358999 is a reply to message #358998] Tue, 11 February 2020 06:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stavian

 
Messages:111
Registered:February 2019
Location: Philly/DC
I cannot even get some UB maps to even open to try to swap a tile set. There are some maps that are saved in the JA2 Storage site that have interesting names or write-ups and I would like to look and see if I can use them as some of these probably have not been used in a long time. If ever for some.
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359000 is a reply to message #358999] Tue, 11 February 2020 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
They probably won't open for the same reason, Stavian. If the tileset folder doesn't have all of the STI's that the xml references, the editor will crash. This may well have something to do with the using tileset 50 as a base that Kitty mentioned before.

If you think you may want to use some UB maps or UB tilesets, I can pass on the sti's you need for your mod.


Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359001 is a reply to message #359000] Tue, 11 February 2020 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Stavian wrote on Tue, 11 February 2020 06:24
I cannot even get some UB maps to even open to try to swap a tile set. There are some maps that are saved in the JA2 Storage site that have interesting names or write-ups and I would like to look and see if I can use them as some of these probably have not been used in a long time. If ever for some.
I putted the Folders "Tilesets" (50-59) and "Binary Data" (there is an ja2set.dat inside) (both from my link above) inside my JA2-Main-Folder\Profiles\UserProfile_JA2113, then I created a folder "maps" inside this Profile-Folder as well. From my original UB I unpacked the "maps.slf" to get the original maps. Those maps went into the mentioned "maps"-Folder.

Then I openend the Ini-Editor and choose "vfs_configJA2113.ini", "Data-113\JA2_options.ini and as starting exe "JA2_8741_Editor.exe". Editor and Game Resolution both 1024x768 and "PlayIntro" = false.
Then Start and the Editor opens up. With "Load" in Editor loaded maps from "Player Directory" (the first one that can be chosen).

I tested with Ini-settings "Use xml tilesets only" True and False, and strangly both worked. When I compared the maps ingame they looked different depending on this ini-setting, but Editor was fine. You just won't see the changes the xml makes before you go ingame. Another reason to keep the same content in both, if one prefers Editors visual feedback for map-creating.

Maps can be loaded, Editor functional and tilesets can be changed - including giving standard 1.13-maps an UB-tileset(this looks bad, better start a new one from scratch with UB-tileset if you want).

I tested this with other UB-maps as well and it works for me.

Why did I put it in "Profiles"? Because in the vfs_config for 1.13 this folder has the highest priority (and I must not overwrite and delete stuff in Game-Folders while testing).
Later on, when your mod is ready, it will have the second most priority in vfs, only topped by the UserProfile_YourMod, and so this should work for it as well.
I tested this also in Data-113 , same result.


For most maps I tested, it wasn't nescessary to convert them at all. Only a few fan-made maps crashed my Editor first, those I converted with a tool I found on a german website JaggedAlliance 2 Basis. There are other old but useful tools as well.

But since it is in german here is the direct-download-link to the tool: Mapconverter

It didn't run on my Win10 so I had to use my Win7 for this. It's pretty selfexplaining and has an readme in english.

If you like to, here you can take a look what happened to the maps with standard 1.13 Ja2set.dat and how this improved with the JA2set.dat from the link in my former post (Wanne-UB-Tilesets)

Screenshots Editor with two different ja2set.dat (Dropbox)


Like Hawkeye said, there are probably still some sti-files missing inside the JA2set.dat that are in JA2setdat.xml. That has to be compared and filled in to make it fully useable.

But for your purpose, to simply watch the tons of UB-maps and choose what might be useful, my method should be working, I guess.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 February 2020 12:59]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359002 is a reply to message #358998] Tue, 11 February 2020 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Hawkeye wrote on Tue, 11 February 2020 06:13
Yes, the UB tiles added by Snap many years ago was what I was familiar with and what Vengeance used as a base. There is still the issue that you can't use these in 1.13 out of the box. Some tiles are missing that are defined in the xml. I found if I traced those missing files and added them the editor will no longer crash when reassigning/swapping a tileset.
When I used those tilesets with the ja2set.dat they come with it worked. As I wrote in my example, I used the Profile.Folder for ease of testing. But when replacing the tilesets in Data-113\tilesets with those and adding the ja2set.dat to Data-113\BinaryData it worked for me as well. But I still have to compare dat and xml to make sure nothing is missing, which I kinda doubt. In standard 113-ja2set.dat "Mixed Snow" didn't have a single GroundTexture defined, for e.g.



I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359004 is a reply to message #359002] Tue, 11 February 2020 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stavian

 
Messages:111
Registered:February 2019
Location: Philly/DC
Thank you and I will try more later on to see. I must have something off and there are still some maps not opening. Can someone try to open maps from Shared JA_2 Maps Kaerar? I am unable to open any of the maps and get a crash when I try. Thank you!
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359005 is a reply to message #359004] Tue, 11 February 2020 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stavian

 
Messages:111
Registered:February 2019
Location: Philly/DC
I was able to open them. That converter has opened a lot of new maps to look at thank you!
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359018 is a reply to message #359005] Wed, 12 February 2020 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Anybody else who wants to try the Mapconverter after stumbling across this thread, but feels unease with my user-provided link, can be relieved.

Look at the Bear's Pit Mainpage, under

Download Repositories

you'll see

Kermi's FTP (Mirror)-Alternate UE mirror for now defunct Kermi's FTP repo..

If you open Kermi's FTP-Link and go to Shared\JA_2\Modding_Tools you'll find a bunch of tools for modding JA2.

Since most of them lack any description before you download them, it's hard to find out what purpose they serve.
If you want to try some modding this is worth a look anyway, personally I consider some of the tools rather essential
for JA2-modding.

So, if you see a file named "UB-mapimport.zip" the naming only gives a vague hint that this might be a mapconverter,
unless you allready know or, after download, opened the readme.

Readme-Mapconverter:

Toggle Spoiler


Now you know and could read the readme beforehand and can download "UB-mapimport.zip" from the Bear's Pit to get the mapconverter ( JA2-maps>UB-maps, UB-maps>JA2-maps).


It's the same file as from the german link I provided above, just a different download location.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 February 2020 18:07]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359021 is a reply to message #359018] Wed, 12 February 2020 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Stavian

 
Messages:111
Registered:February 2019
Location: Philly/DC
The map converter has been amazing and has opened up some very interesting nuggets. Thanks Kitty!
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #359920 is a reply to message #359021] Mon, 04 May 2020 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vritran

 
Messages:180
Registered:February 2020
Location: North East England
Copy of the unpacked tilesets from UB.

To fix tilesets 50 - 59 in v1.13, copy and paste tilesets 50 to 59 into your Data-1.13/tilesets folder.

This ensures that no standard .sti(s) are missing (which causes a CTD) and you can start making maps in JA2 V1.13 using UB tilesets. This is assuming you have the latest Ja2Set.dat.xml file in your Data-1.13 folder which details the UB tilesets.

https://mega.nz/file/VZBxlIZb#Hq5V3py57UX4CEJrF52SdnW4px1ZBUoadH-QtaXLRs8

[Updated on: Mon, 04 May 2020 15:42]

Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360001 is a reply to message #359920] Mon, 11 May 2020 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zaphod

 
Messages:18
Registered:April 2017
Location: Hessen Germany
Thanks for this complete thread. It helped me very well to understand how this system works. Everything worked very well and without problems.
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360007 is a reply to message #360001] Mon, 11 May 2020 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Zaphod wrote on Mon, 11 May 2020 14:07
Thanks for this complete thread. It helped me very well to understand how this system works. Everything worked very well and without problems.
Then this might be interestening for you as well, a more general guideline for tileset editing:

The Bear's Pit:

Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance: Unfinished Business » Maps, Mods and Editors » Tileset editing guidelines


http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=269120&srch=shadow&SQ=570c135a11411e0d709d6a575525d53 0&



Based on your stated location, here is also a link to a german version:

JaggedAlliance2Basis (jaggedalliance.de) (the page is kinda outdated, but many guides and tools still are useable)

Ei, Gude wie, wo meschste hie:

https://www.jaggedalliance.de/ub/tutorials/tileset.shtml

Edit: Fixed link

[Updated on: Thu, 28 May 2020 02:12]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360009 is a reply to message #360007] Tue, 12 May 2020 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
What I found at Wiki on pbworks:


http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/w/page/4218338/Features


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

New Features of 1.13

.
.
.

14) Tilesets

Maximum Tilesets is now 255, with no additional code changes required to add new tilesets. (UB Tileset add-on Pack Available for Download)

15) Map Editor

Compatible with 1.13, supports all 3 resolutions, up to 255 tilesets, and supports the items in the XML files.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------


This Wiki sure is rather outdated, but still contains usefull and useable information.
I can't see why the descripted features for Tilesets and Map-Editor should willingly be changed over the years (more then a decade in this case).
But chance is, given the time, that e.g. the Map-Editor doesn't behave like described anymore.

I recently asked smeagol (Author of AIMAS) for advice on the topic of tilesets. He kindly answered, and according to him, with ja2set.dat alone,
a 100 Tilesets can be reached (as can be seen in AIMAS). More isn't possible with ja2set.dat alone.

Combining this with the information from the Wiki, I assume that therefore anything above 100 would require xml-Tilesets.
Which would only be of any use, if the Wikis statement about the Map-Editor is true for recent Map-Editors as well.

I assume, any further knowledge about xml-Tilesets and especially how to bring them to use, is lost in time and/or burried in places unknown to me.
But the information from the Wiki does at least justify to do further testing.


Edit: fixed link (hopefully)

[Updated on: Tue, 12 May 2020 15:34]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360012 is a reply to message #360009] Tue, 12 May 2020 11:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zaphod

 
Messages:18
Registered:April 2017
Location: Hessen Germany
Servus Kitty, thanks for the information an the links. I came across hawkeye's revised thread recently. It was very helpful, but the German version is much easier for me to understand.

I noticed that some tiles are animated. E.g. Fans or radar antennas. I have to figure out how they work.
What I'm wondering is whether there is a limit to the ground textures, or whether it would be possible to create more than 2 water textures and whether you could animate them. Another water texture for rapids would be nice or e.g. other colors such as sedimentary rivers that go more sand-colored or brown. A cliff with an animated waterfall would also be possible.
I definitely have too many ideas in my head.
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360014 is a reply to message #360012] Tue, 12 May 2020 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vritran

 
Messages:180
Registered:February 2020
Location: North East England
Hi Kitty,

The link posted appears to be dead for me? Maybe an error in the double 'http'

But good job on finding that information.

So in theory you could have a different tile set for each surface sector.

Regarding individual tilesets, do we know how many .stis we can stuff them with? And any idea where would these additional .stis be located in the map editor?

[Updated on: Tue, 12 May 2020 12:07]

Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360015 is a reply to message #360014] Tue, 12 May 2020 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zaphod

 
Messages:18
Registered:April 2017
Location: Hessen Germany
Hi Vritran, the link worked via google-search
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360020 is a reply to message #360015] Tue, 12 May 2020 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Maybe a prove of concept.


In JA2set.dat.xml, at the very top I used: numTilesets="255"

For testing I copied entries for known tilesets (JA2, UB, other mods, etc.) in ja2set.dat.xml (like over 100 Generic 1) and changed the index numbers accordingly.

In Data113-Tilesets added folders with the used tilesets and adjusted the numbers (must match the index in xml)

Example: Copied entry for "Generic 1" (index 0) to Index 60 in xml and slightly changed name. Changed this copied entry to index 60.
In data-113-tilesets created a folder with the Nr 60 and filled it with all files that a full "Generic 1 contains.

Full content can either be downloaded somewhere, or extract the tileset.slf in your JA2-Data Folder.
Add files from Data-Tilesets and Data-113-Tilesets folder 0 to new folder 60.

In Ini-Editor change setting to "use xml-tilesets=true" and save Editor. Choose Map-Editor as starting exe. Tested with 8741.


I could use and see all Tilesets in Map-Editor. Placement of graphics worked.

Keep in mind, that I only did some quick testing. But game and editor started without any error-reports or crashes in my testruns.


So, what's it good for? Will we ever see a mod that uses 255 different tilesets?

Probably not any time soon. In most cases this simply wouldn't be nescessary and building 255 unique Tilesets might require a crazy amount of time.

But it's assuring, that 100 is not a solid border (ja2set.dat apparently has a limit at 100) and xml-Tilesets could be used to go slightly over 100.


And again, I only did a quick test, nothing more then a shaky prove of concept. Any trouble, that might pop up when doing serious map-editing, still could happen.


[Updated on: Tue, 12 May 2020 23:42]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360023 is a reply to message #360014] Tue, 12 May 2020 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Vritran wrote on Tue, 12 May 2020 12:06
...Regarding individual tilesets, do we know how many .stis we can stuff them with? And any idea where would these additional .stis be located in the map editor?
The number of sti-files is 151 (Index 0-150). As far as I understand, the sti must still match the right slot. So walls still should be at an index-number where walls are supposed to be. And the sti with the shadows must be at the matching Index-Nr, and so on.
Look at the tileset-guidelines (Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance: Unfinished Business » Maps, Mods and Editors » Tileset editing guidelines).

As I understand, xml-tilesets don't change this at all. They just offer the possability to use more tilesets then before (with the ja2set.dat in BinaryData).

Anything beyond would probably require a rather huge change to map-editor. And I don't know, if this even would be possible. That'll be a question for the coding-wizzards here.





I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360024 is a reply to message #360012] Tue, 12 May 2020 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Zaphod wrote on Tue, 12 May 2020 11:21
... I noticed that some tiles are animated. E.g. Fans or radar antennas. I have to figure out how they work.
What I'm wondering is whether there is a limit to the ground textures, or whether it would be possible to create more than 2 water textures and whether you could animate them. Another water texture for rapids would be nice or e.g. other colors such as sedimentary rivers that go more sand-colored or brown. A cliff with an animated waterfall would also be possible.
I definitely have too many ideas in my head.
Animated sti:

For this you'll have to open the jsd-file with the same name. There are editors for this in the download section. The sti is the graphic, the jsd is what defines values for those garphics. Like how much damage can a structure take, can we look through, is the fence an electric wirefence, what's the shape of this car, etc. With an editor you can change those values and when you create new structures you also have to create a jsd for it - otherwise your mercs will walk straight through the structure. One thing that can be done in jsd is define the structure as animated. There you can tell which graphics in the sti should be used in which order. The radar-antenna is in the sti satdish.sti There (and in map-editor) you'll see several, just slightly different graphics of the antenna. There are ten pictures, pic 0-8 is the antenna. Look at the sti and jsd to get a better understanding.

Water and Ground:

As far as I know, any tileset has a fixed amount of ground-textures. Take a look at the guidelines and /or open map-editor to see. In your JA2-113-Installation there is a folder "Docs" with a guide for the map-editor. You can change the look of the groundtextures, IIRC there is also a tool for creating them at the download-section here.
Colourchanges to water should also be possible, but I know of no method to get more then two (shallow and deep) types. Some tilesets have stones lying in the water, with water moving arround. This probably could be used for rapids and waterfalls. But cliffs (and cave-walls) are rather annoying to place without clipping.


If you haven't, I'd advice to look at the "tools"-section of the downloads ("Download Repositories" at the MainPage). Choose tools to work with sti and jsd, you have to try which ones run on your machine.
Some of them only work with my win7 but not with my win10, others not at all. Using those tools should give you much more ideas on how it's working then anything I can tell.

A struggled a lot with this first, here is a conversation that helped me to understand sti/jsd better:

http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&goto=359044

[Updated on: Wed, 13 May 2020 00:00]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360027 is a reply to message #360014] Wed, 13 May 2020 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:2182
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Vritran wrote on Tue, 12 May 2020 19:06
Hi Kitty,
Regarding individual tilesets, do we know how many .stis we can stuff them with? And any idea where would these additional .stis be located in the map editor?
What Kitty said, if you go back to my tileset editing guidelines thread it should have the limits marked for each slot. These are hardcoded as far as I know, and if you add more than there are allocated it causes an overflow and others getting booted or it crashes. Though there are less strict rules regarding what kind of tiles you put in certain slots it's still best to follow most tile categories, so if you want to add new decals, best to use the decal slot rather than junk and other stuff. Some of these tiles behave differently, especially when it comes to things like destruction parameters and orientation.

The original Basis post is in German, and doesn't offer much more than I translated. I actually used the Basis info as a guide and then did an English version and expanded what I learnt along the way and what valuable info I got from people like The Scorpion.

[Updated on: Wed, 13 May 2020 07:03]



Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360170 is a reply to message #360027] Wed, 27 May 2020 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
Tilesets used by Mapsectors (standard JA2 v1.13 map)

https://s2.imagebanana.com/file/200527/F75FKYmA.png



Detailed Description Map:

Toggle Spoiler


Download Map and Description







[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2020 08:31]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360420 is a reply to message #358896] Sun, 21 June 2020 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
In xml-Tilesets one can choose an "Ambient ID".

As far as I know, this is refering to the files in Data/Ambient: 0.bad and 32.bad
and the values that could be used for "Ambient ID" seem to be 0 or 32.

I could start and play the game with both values. But I failed to see any difference.

So, does anybody know more about "Ambient ID" ?



<JA2SET>
	<tilesets numTilesets="255" numFiles="151">
	       <Tileset index="0">
	       <Name>GENERIC 1</Name>

	       <AmbientID>0</AmbientID>  Value 0 or 32, but what's it doing?

		<Files>
                 ...

[Updated on: Sun, 21 June 2020 17:40]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360421 is a reply to message #360420] Sun, 21 June 2020 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1335
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
It has to do with ambient sounds - birdcalls and the like, but I don't know what each does specifically.






Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #360423 is a reply to message #360420] Sun, 21 June 2020 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2746
Registered:May 2009
Kitty wrote on Sun, 21 June 2020 16:38

As far as I know, this is refering to the files in Data/Ambient: 0.bad and 32.bad
and the values that could be used for "Ambient ID" seem to be 0 or 32.

I could start and play the game with both values. But I failed to see any difference.
You probably could see no difference, because there is no difference between 0.BAD and 32.BAD. They have the same content. big grin

The <AmbientID> is indeed referring to x.BAD in Data\Ambient. You could have many more definitions than just 0 and 32. The type of ubAmbientID in the code is UINT8, so 0 to 255 is the range.
How to create proper x.BAD files is another question. I have no idea.



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

Re: 1.13 Tileset editing [message #361306 is a reply to message #358896] Wed, 16 September 2020 07:27 Go to previous message
Kitty

 
Messages:200
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany
JA2set.dat.xml - Description

This is an excerpt from JA2set.dat.xml in Data-1.13 (standard 1.13, no mods) with some additional descriptions.

As can be seen (if toggle spoiler), this is Tileset Number 0 with the name Generic 1. This is the default Tileset in JA2-1.13, the base of all following Tilesets.

In this default Tileset all 151 indices (numFiles=151, file index=0-150) are defined.

Any un-defined index in the Tilesets following will use the defintion used in Tileset 0 instead.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------

For edditing Tilesets I use the program "ja2tse" (JA2Tile_Set_Editor)(author: linx) Forum Download - JA2-Modding-Tools This program allows to open the ja2set.dat-file in BinaryData and is sorting the content of the Tilesets in categories which are simular to the ones the MapEditor uses.

Screenshot JA2-Tile-Set-Editor (ja2tse):


For me, personally, I still prefer using this program when I try large-scale edits of the Tilesets. On the other hand, it's much advised to use the ja2set.dat.xml ingame (choice between .dat or .xml can be made in ini) since some features require it. And the xml comes in handy when you just want to change a few files (e.g. replace drum01.sti with sandbags.sti) and you know what you do (e.g. to replace the shadow-.sti at different index-nr as well, etc. - see Hawkeyes Tileset Guidelines for details) .

If doing only a quick check on my edits (with ja2tse) in MapEditor, I choose .dat in the ini. When I deem them worth a playtest, I use .xml instead. (ini: DataFileSettings-"Use xml Tilesets")
Doing so, of course requires to first transfer the edits to the ja2set.dat.xml.

And for the ease of my mind, I added descriptions to the Tileset 0 in ja2set.dat.xml, allowing me to double-check when transfering entries.

<!-- description -->

1. <file index="12">drum_01.sti</file><!-- Rocks - OSTRUCT1 -->

First comes the name of the category used in ja2tse (and MapEditor)

2. <file index="24">drum1shd.sti</file><!-- Rocks - (S)OSTRUCT1 -->

Then, in capital letters, comes a reference to the MapEditor.
When doing a mouse-over on picture of structure in MapEditor, this name will be shown at top.
(iirc, that's also the name used in code)

3. <file index="141">x.sti</file><!-- Rest (X-Icon - unpassable structure) -->

Some entries have no reference to MapEditor. For those, a short description in brackets () is added.


JA2Set.dat.xml with descriptions:

Toggle Spoiler


Thought, this might be useful to others as well.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 September 2020 08:32]




I need more details.

(Didi Hallervorden)
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