Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified? (Missing files)
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| Re: Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?[message #361563 is a reply to message #361562]
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Wed, 14 October 2020 22:06  
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| Kitty |
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Messages:439
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Regarding to a statement Depri made on Discord, the "Depri's v1.13 Builds Repository" is apparently "on indefinite hold". I don't know why or when it will continue again, that's up to him. As for me, I'm thankful he did the job all those years and went looking for alternatives.
So, as things are, 8796/2531 might be the last SCI we see there for a while. If you just wanna play the latest 1.13, that's where maeyanies SCI come in. Those SCI (single-click-installer) contain all nescessary files in GameDir(Game Directory) and the JA2.exe.
As far as I see, what those SCI at maeyanie ain't contain are the UB-exe and the MapEditor. Which is fine for playing JA2, but looking at your past posts, you might miss the MapEditor and the UB-exe for the things you wanna do.
To solve this dilemma, I suggest that you build those yourself - atm I don't know of any other way to get a MapEditor matching the exe. No coding knowledge needed for this task 
You'll need a program called VisualStudio by Mircrosoft. Won't cost you money, but a registration (Microsoft account). Including the requirements, it's a huge download.
If you wanna give it a shot, follow the Quick Guide for Compiling and Debugging Source Code in Visual Studio (by Haydent). Just recently I added step-by-step Screenshots to this Guide, it ain't no rocket-science.
I got ya, you stated numerous times that stuff like this is a pain in the ass for you - and I feel ya, shyed away from this myself quite some time. But it sounds way more complicated then it actually is.
I suggest this to you, because I think for what you seem up to, you'll need a MapEditor and the logs with changes on GameDir (and source-code) would provide nescessary information.
Just give it a look and judge for yourself.
Meanwhile, you can try those
Link to MapEditor and UB-exe for use with JA2 r8898-GameDir 2568, including changelogs from 8796-2531 to 8898-2568
Self-compiled by me, use at own risk. For me, those are working fine.
Download SCI from maeyanie and add MapEditor and UB-exe into same folder as JA2-exe.
Edit: deleted link, expect for Jenkins Server, any other SCI I'm aware of contains MapEditor. Use those.
[Updated on: Sat, 12 December 2020 00:11]
How to get: latest 1.13, 7609 and more | 7609 SCI (eng) | Compiling+SVN
I need more details. (Didi Hallervorden) Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?[message #361564 is a reply to message #361563]
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Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45
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 Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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Seriously, Discord is hip, but dispersing the information over several places doesn't really help.
It was so much easier last time (2008-ish), there was a clear (and up-to-date!) player manual in the download, and an up-to-date Wiki site answering most of the basic questions a standard player would have, and a lot of the more technical ones a modder would ask. As a result there are lots of new features which the average player (like me) will never discover except accidentally: Your new "repair wire fences" thing comes to mind
Kitty wrote on Wed, 14 October 2020 21:06the "Depri's v1.13 Builds Repository" is apparently "on indefinite hold". I don't know why or when it will continue again, that's up to him. As for me, I'm thankful he did the job all those years and went looking for alternatives.
Sure, it's volunteer work, and nobody is bound to do more than he's willing/able to.
Still, changing the download links (or adding a new one) would be nice, for not everyone has the time and is willing to spend days trying to understand the rather complex state of JA2-1.13 in 2020.
There is a moderator around, isn't there? The forum isn't overflowing with spam, so there must be. Why doesn't (s)he create a new download link pointing to whatever (general) you consider the replacement download site from now on? It would take 30 seconds.
[Updated on: Fri, 16 October 2020 04:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?[message #361565 is a reply to message #361564]
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Thu, 15 October 2020 19:14
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| Kitty |
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Messages:439
Registered:October 2017
Location: Germany |
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Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45 Seriously, Discord is hip, but dispersing the information over several places doesn't really help.
I happened to ask him on Discord, because I couldn't get an answer here.
Kitty 03.10.2020
@DepressivesBrot The OneDrive for latest SCI seems to be down. Following the links at forum is leading to an error-message. And since there haven't been any updates since May, I'm wondering if you may have stopped your service. I don't wanna sound unpatient or ungratefull, I used it tons of times in the past and allways thought that it is an incredible service to provide those SCI. Could you please state any information on the status of the SCI-repository? That'll be great.
DepressivesBrot 03.10.2020
it's on indefinite hold until I can find the motivation to redo the whole process, there should be alternatives on the forum anyway so I don't rate it as particularly pressing either.
My way to interpret this: SCI is on hold for unknown reasons. There is a chance it will be continued someday in future. Hope that this day will be soon seems slim.
And yes, I agree, announcing this here, without being asked for, would be the more expedient solution.
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45 Why doesn't (s)he create a new download link pointing to whatever (general) you consider the replacement download site from now on? It would take 30 seconds.
I asked a more exeperienced longtime member and he told me who he seem capabale (having access) of adding such a link. I then wrote an email to that person via pm. So far, no reaction (maybe it's a pm-problem, I may try again sometime later if I feel like).
For the meantime, I thought about what I can do myself and ended up with adding the link to Maeyaenie to my signature and did those screenshots for the Compiling Guide (which hopefully provide some help).
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45 As a result there are lots of new features which the average player (like me) will never discover except accidentally: Your new "repair wire fences" thing comes to mind
Idea for repairing fences stems from sevenfm's "Experimental Project" (see link in his signature), where you can find the documentation for his 7609+AI. He kindly answered to my curiosity on how he did this and gave some major hints on how this might could be done for recent 1.13 as well. I just followed those hints and changed one file (details see 1.13 Tileset Editing).
The vast majority of features is described at "Flugentes Magika Workshop". In my opinion, worth a look is also Trunk AI and improvements (thread for sevenfm's contributions to the main trunk) and the "1.13 Starter Docs" which you'll also can find at sevenfms signature.
But yes, until a player accidently tries to use a wirecutter or KCB on a hole in a fence, he'll never know. Which probably is true for all things small enough to not end up in a feature-description.
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45 Indeed, that's a deal breaker, especially the lack of map editor. Why didn't "they" (whoever that is) include it? ... I assume using the 8796 map editor would cause problems? From what you say it seems it would
As far as I understand, this Jenkins Server by maeyanie is doing the compiles in an automated process. I don't know how this is done, but I assume that to do the same for a MapEditor it would require a separate automated setting for this.
You might be able to use an MapEditor older than the version of JA2-exe, but if there are fixes or other code-changes that effect maps (and placements on those) that'll probably cause problems. Wouldn't advice to do so.
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45 I'd need an ancient version of Visual Studio, since I'm on Linux and only have WinXP VMs to work with...
Well, don't know where those versions might be hidden in Micosofts archives. Oldest .sln in source I see is from 2005. So, in theory, it might be possible.
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45Simple players wanting to enjoy a quick game of 2020 JA2-1.13 don't have a place here anymore: Just downloading the current version of the game is a whole treasure hunt on itself!
Until recently, Depris Repository was the place to get this current versions. Therefore I wholeheartly agree that there should be a link to alternatives at a prominent place at frontpage.
Forum might has been more lively in the past, but for me it's still a treasure trove of information. And whenever I asked something, I at least got directed to a place where to find informations on topic. More often I also get a friendly, detailed answer. So, if it's a tomb, it has some friendly ghosts.
But I get where you are comming from. Information is all over the place and it's time consuming to aquire. I honestly don't know, how to solve this. A Players-Manual would be rather huge and how to decide what's going in it? Who is compiling the content? Where to start from? JA2-original or JA2-1.13-7609 ? It's more then a decade of development. And yes, what's a feature good for when nobody uses it because he/she doesn't know of it in the first place ? Maybe the most reasonable approach would be to add selected forum-links to the starter-documentaion. And then include the starter-documentation to 1.13-GameDir (SVN). Keep in mind, that yunotchi and tais first have started this starter-documentation in the environment of aimas-mod and without those two, there would be nothing.
Kurt wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 15:45Wait, did I get this right? You made a map editor for 8898/2568? (If yes, thanks!) I got the 8898/2568 files already BTW; It's a 370MB download, so if your hosting creates bandwidth costs, could I only have the additional files?
Following my link, it's only five files in a ~ 6 MB zip at mediafire. The exe for MapEditor and UB (both 8898), one changelog for GameDir (2531-2568) and one for Build (8796-8898). And a readme with link to maeyanie-SCI. Self-compiled by me and while they work fine for me, I may add, that I've close to zero knowledge about this and just merely followed the instructions of the Guide Just put the two exe (MapEditor and UB) at the some place where the JA2.exe from maeyanie is.
I use those in my attempt to update the (7609) AR-mod, so I may have a glimpse of what you are trying with your 3xxx-mod. Keep asking your determined questions, makes me think about stuff I take for granted and therefore those are fine reminders, which also could prove useful to someone stumbling across sometime later.
Edit:
- The link to Maeyanie-SCI has been added to starter-documentation by Yunotchi as of today (15.10.2020).
- As of GameDir 2569 the link to starter documentation and file itself has been added by sevenfm. (look at: Docs/Additional 1.13 Documents.txt).
- As of GameDir 2570 more useful links (feature descriptions, where to post bug-reports, links to SVN) have been added by sevenfm.(look at: Docs/Additional 1.13 Documents.txt)
- As of GameDir 2571 the link to the Jenkins JA2 SCI (maeyanie) has been added to "Download latest ja2.exe - ReadMe.txt" in JA2 main-directory by sevenfm.
Thanks a lot to Yunotchi and Sevenfm for doing this 
[Updated on: Thu, 15 October 2020 21:35]
How to get: latest 1.13, 7609 and more | 7609 SCI (eng) | Compiling+SVN
I need more details. (Didi Hallervorden) Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?[message #361567 is a reply to message #361565]
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Thu, 15 October 2020 23:37
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| Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14I happened to ask him on Discord, because I couldn't get an answer here.
Sorry, that wasn't a comment on you, it was just a general comment about how difficult it is for somebody who just arrived to get the right information.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14(see link in his signature), where you can find the documentation for his 7609+AI.
More treasure hunt... 
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14the "1.13 Starter Docs" which you'll also can find at sevenfms signature.
Yes, when I first came (back) here after 16 years of absence, I asked which version to download and he pointed me to that site.
That site is very clear and has all the quick information you need to get started without spending a week reading stuff.
Unfortunately it's impossible to find it with an Internet search, since it's referenced as an "aimnas" page, and nobody except those already in the know has the slightest clue what an "aimnas" is...
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14But yes, until a player accidently tries to use a wirecutter or KCB on a hole in a fence
And what are the chances that might happen?...
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14As far as I understand, this Jenkins Server by maeyanie is doing the compiles in an automated process. I don't know how this is done, but I assume that to do the same for a MapEditor it would require a separate automated setting for this.
Makes sense.
But the Map Editor is a very important piece of JA2, how many want to keep playing vanilla JA2, 20+ years later?... I know every rock on every map, I know where the enemies are placed, I could play it blindfolded.
Anyway, my point is that if that "Jenkins Server by maeyanie" is to become the official download site of JA2-1.13, this has to be solved somehow.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14Well, don't know where those versions might be hidden in Micosofts archives.
I'm not sure they're still available, if only because they want to push the newest version.
Anyway, as I said, when the tedium increases beyond any reward one might reap, it's time to remember all those other games waiting to be played...
I (but that's me, YMMV) definitely won't start installing a developer environment, I've worked with developers long enough to know this would quickly become a full time job and I'm not interested in spending my time on that. Spending each day one hour reading this forum looking for instructions is about as far as I want to go.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14Forum might has been more lively in the past, but for me it's still a treasure trove of information.
That's indeed the whole point of having a forum: It accumulates information.
The problem of the Bear's Pit is that it is a very old forum (as forums go), and it's about something in constant evolution, so at least 3/4 of the information around here is outdated, some slightly, some severely.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14So, if it's a tomb, it has some friendly ghosts.
 Problem is it isn't haunted enough...
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14A Players-Manual would be rather huge and how to decide what's going in it?
Everything obviously. A feature the user doesn't know about is a feature which does not exist.
As for who will do it, well, it has to be done as one goes along, so the task remains small and not too daunting. Writing a short paragraph every now and then is nothing to be afraid of, but one has to have the discipline to do it! No procrastination, lest the amount of missing information grows out of control!
Nobody would write the complete manual of JA2-1.13 from scratch, it would be a huge and quite unrewarding undertaking.
(That been said I'm afraid there is already an awful lot of work to catch up.)
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14Where to start from?
The existing manual obviously, the one in the download. Most of it is still valid and doesn't need to be rewritten, also it's a structure to build upon.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14Maybe the most reasonable approach would be to add selected forum-links to the starter-documentaion.
When you download the game, you should have as far as possible everything you need included in the download.
Links are dangerous, websites are not eternal, especially fansites about old games.
I honestly was very surprised the Bear's Pit was still alive (well, sorta) and kicking. I last visited in 2008, and was afraid by now JA2-1.13 would have gone the way of the Dodo.
Nevertheless, I still wouldn't bet on it still being here in 2032...
On the other hand, the downloaded file on your own HD is eternal, as long as you have a VM to run it in.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14Following my link, it's only five files in a ~ 6 MB zip at mediafire.
Thanks, that's great! It wasn't clear, as Javascript doesn't work for me (forum setting), I had to "decompile" it to find the links.
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14I may have a glimpse of what you are trying with your 3xxx-mod.
Nah, that ship has sailed, hit an iceberg, and sunk...
I'm redoing everything from scratch, have to, since gameplay has changed and the whole game balance is different. My mod is very brutal in a way, since most weapons kill (or at least severely maim) with a single hit, and the enemy has them too, so it has to be fine-tuned so it doesn't become overwhelming or frustrating (or both).
Kitty wrote on Thu, 15 October 2020 18:14- As of GameDir 2571 the link to the Jenkins JA2 SCI (maeyanie) has been added to "Download latest ja2.exe - ReadMe.txt" in JA2 main-directory by sevenfm.
Excellent for all those other things, but that last one has an chicken/egg issue: People need a way to find the current download place for JA2-1.13 before they can check that "Download latest ja2.exe - ReadMe.txt" file, don't they.
It all boils down to here, this forum, the ancestral birthing place of JA2-1.13 (AFAIK).
And JA2-1.13 needs a Wikipedia entry, linked from the original JA2 game page.
People interested in turn-based tactical games need to know JA2-1.13 (still) exists!
Oh well.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?[message #361568 is a reply to message #361564]
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Fri, 16 October 2020 04:29
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| Hawkeye |
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Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia |
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Kurt wrote on Wed, 14 October 2020 21:06Seriously, Discord is hip, but dispersing the information over several places doesn't really help. As a result there are lots of new features which the average player (like me) will never discover except accidentally: Your new "repair wire fences" thing comes to mind, it was something I always wished for; And hadn't I checked the changelog, I would probably never had found out. (Still don't know how that is supposed to work though, but that's another problem for another time)
It was so much easier last time (2008-ish), there was a clear (and up-to-date!) player manual in the download, and an up-to-date Wiki site answering most of the basic questions a standard player would have, and a lot of the more technical ones a modder would ask.
Kitty wrote on Wed, 14 October 2020 21:06the "Depri's v1.13 Builds Repository" is apparently "on indefinite hold". I don't know why or when it will continue again, that's up to him. As for me, I'm thankful he did the job all those years and went looking for alternatives.
Sure, it's volunteer work, and nobody is bound to do more than he's willing/able to.
Still, changing the download links (or adding a new one) would be nice, for not everyone has the time and is willing to spend days trying to understand the rather complex state of JA2-1.13 in 2020.
There is a moderator around, isn't there? The forum isn't overflowing with spam, so there must be. Why doesn't (s)he create a new download link pointing to whatever (general) you consider the replacement download site from now on? It would take 30 seconds.
Unfortunately only DepressivesBrot and Flugente have editing capabilities on their respective forum threads, and maybe Shanga himself, so only they can update or remove older posts. I try and remove old and out of date or just plain banal posts that go nowhere on some of the more go-to pages, unless they have some historic or reference value.
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Has "Unfinished Business" been 1.13ified?
