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New modes of transport[message #47856] Tue, 15 February 2000 15:16 Go to next message

Registered:February 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

This is my opinions about the current transport ways, as well as what I think they should be in JA3. Feel free to comment.

Current transport modes :

1. Chopper : The chopper works quite well as it is, a fast and good transport with room for 6 mercs, aquired after a small quest. Don't change this one, Sir-Tech.

2. Cars : Work on this. The Ice-cream truck is worthless and should be removed. The hummer should be removed too. Instead, add an ordinary van or something, with room for 6 mercs and a small amount of cargo.

Then, add a jeep. It should be able to take 6 mercs, but no cargo. It should also be able to go cross-country, at least over plains.

Then add some kind of truck, with room for maybe two mercs but huge amounts of cargo. The truck needs a good road to travel, wich means it can't travel over small roads out in the countryside.

New transport modes :

Aircraft :

This comes in two versions.

1. A small Cessna or something, it will be able to fly over the country much faster than the chopper, but it needs an airport to land. Also, it might try and land on a plains sector, but with possible damage to the plane and the mercs as a result.

But here come's an interesting idea : enemy fighters are patrolling the skies continuosly. If they spot you first, there will be one of some outcomes :

1. Plane explodes.

They hit the fuel tank...BOOOOM.

Outcome : Plane destroyed, all mercs die.

2. Plane crash lands.

The plane crashes in the sector.

Outcome : Plane destroyed, all mercs are wounded or dead.

3. Plane is forced down.

The enemy force the plane to land. Damage as in emergency landing (see a bit below)If the terrain is rough, damage will be heavier. This will only be done if there are enemy soldiers below.

Outcome : Plane damaged, all mercs damaged. If all mercs passed out, they will be captured. Otherwise, there'll be fight.

4. Escort.

Enemies escort the plane to nearest enemy-controlled airport.

Outcome : Plane lost, all mercs captured.

5. Escaped.

You managed to get away.

Outcome : Plane continues on course.

If you spot the enemy first, you will however get some choices to do.

1. Do nothing.

A random outcome will be picked, but with a slightly larger chance of forced down, escort or get away.

2. Emergency landing.

Damage to the plane and all mercs, but you get down on the ground safely, if it is a plain sector below.

3. Try to get away.

If it suceeds, the plane will continue unharmed on a different course. If it fails, the chance of blowing up or crash landing increases.

OOPS, I don't have time to finish this now. I've got so many ideas to put up. This was just the primary part of air transports. But I'll finish it later, until then, feel free to comment.
Re: New modes of transport[message #47857] Wed, 16 February 2000 04:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
Hi KB. Welcome to the board. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Well your topic is dear to my heart so here are my comments.

The Ice-cream Van & Hummer seem to do their primary work of transporting your squads adequately. I agree there should be a boot for storing a limited amount of equipment. There is a jeep in the game but it was not enabled. The code is there for it though in one of the versions (German I think).

Light Aircraft.
The light aircraft idea is a good one that I have also previously explored. Could have a capacity for carrying 6 mercs & some cargo. The provision of parachutes in the game which you could buy, find or create using combinations for your mercs would enable hiring a plane to fly over enemy held territory to drop in a squad. Could be exciting due to the random placement of parachuted mercs when they arrive in a sector.
A light plane could also could be used to ferry equipment if say 3 airfields were on the map thereby expanding strategic possibilities. Planes lost could be replaced by buying one. $50,000 or how much for a second hand Cessna?. Also damaged planes could be repairable by one of your mechanics.
Your ideas on enemy fighters are sound enough. Without fighters the same plane hit outcomes against a plane could be translated for AA gunfire or SAMS. We already have SAM batteries in place so thats easy to implement. Game difficulty levels could partially determine the percentage level of damaging hits. Eg in Easy mode the worst outcome could be options 3 Forced down slightly damaged, 4 Escorted to an enemy airstrip to be captured, 5 Escaped completely unharmed. In Normal mode there is a 20% chance of option 2 Forced crash landing becoming a reality. Also weather, night etc could play a part in determining the variables & percentages. In Difficult mode the chances of 1 Total destruction & 2 Forced crash landing happening are greater. This idea has lots of potential.

There is an opportunity for boats to be used if water is in any abundance or if islands were introduced as part of a map.
Same story as Skyriders helicopter. A boat carrying 6 mercs for say $100 a square hireable from an NPC or one which you could acquire some other way. Needs fuel say 1 can for every 20 squares or whatever. With boats we could have a reason for amphibious assualts or co-ordinated air sea assualts on an island base or SAM site as examples. There could be also wetsuits & aqualungs for enabling a boat to approach within one sector of enemy territory & mercs swimming undetected for some special commando style mission like sabotage, rescue, recon etc. Could be part of a quest.

There was supposed to be a rail network in JA2 but it failed to eventuate. The inclusion of trains would expand strategic horizons greatly as well as adding the possibility of various subquests. You could sabotage or mine tracks to deny the enemy use of rail lines but to counter this if rail lines in your territory were destroyed or damaged maybe the local militia could be used to repair them just as examples. There could be specialist NPCs with engineering skills adept at various repair work available to help out much like the repair guys now "Perko", "Fredo".

Lets see how this thread develops. Maybe someone can do a comprehensive summary post when more ideas about transport possibilities are assembled.

Of all the things I've ever lost I miss my mind the most.
Regards Bearpit

[This message has been edited by Bearpit (edited 16 February 2000).]
Re: New modes of transport[message #47858] Wed, 16 February 2000 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:February 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Parachuting :

Should definetly be in. In the beginnig of the game, as soon as you have liberated the first airport, a new web site should come online. (Something like "Jumpin' Jimmys parachuting")From there, you'll be able to hire a plane, its crew, and parachutes for your team. With some luck, you may also find parachutes later in the game. The big advantage with this is the possibility to airdrop in enemy-controlled sectors. if you make it at night you should be able to get down unharmed. If they see you however, you will (in turnbased mode) be sitting ducks for some turns as you fall trough he sky. Disadvantages, as Bearpit mentioned, is that your mercs will land far from each other, and on harder difficulty levels also far from their equipment.

Boats :

1. If there's an archipelago included (I would love that), there should be some NPC's offering a boat ride too another sector. You pay the NPC, then you control the boat just like any other vehicle, but when you have exited, you've got to speek to the NPC again in order to use the boat.

2. Of course you may "find" a boat too. Then it'll work like any other vehicle, but if you use it at night, there will be a chance that it sinks. Maybe at daytime too, but it should be bigger during nighttime.

That's all for now, next part will be my opinions about railroad.(and that's a large subject)
Re: New modes of transport[message #47859] Wed, 16 February 2000 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:January 2000
Location: Espoo, Finland
What a great ideas. I'd like to add my opinions about parachuting and airplanes.

First to the parachuting. Mercs are tough, well most of them are. For example Flo is one who isn't as tough. So I'll bet my computer that she couldn't jump out of airplane in 3000m - 5000m. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif Also mercs who have low agility, have bigger chance to lose control of the parachute. So they land more far from the landing spot. Also good strength is needed for the landing. So if your merc has under 50 agility and strenght, he/she is a poor parachuter.

Next for the airplanes. Many airports have small planes for rent availeble. Also you could buy one. Or if you don't have money, you can always "acquire" a plane by "chatting" with people who run the airport. Like there's the plane in Drassen airpor. Maybe you could just take it. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif

Boats are needed if there's water in the game.

My favourite subject of public transportation must be trains. Those are common around the world and used for civilian, military and cargo carriage. They are definately needed in the JA3. I've some posts considering about this so I won't waste more space here. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/smile.gif

"Hope it hurt"
Re: New modes of transport[message #47860] Wed, 16 February 2000 14:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:February 2000
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Railroads 1

OK, first off, if Sir-Tech are to implement railroads, they have to do it right. One simple railroad line with little or no interaction will do no good. Instead, they must develop a large rail network over the whole country. I use Arulco as an example of what I mean :

The main line


Alma line :


Balime line :


Grumm line :


Chitzena line :


Something like that. Also, small supply rails to places like Tixa and Orta.
Trains should come in two shapes, passenger and freight. After capturing the routing central in, say, Cambria, you should be able to make your own trains, at least from a couple of selections. Before capturing the routing center, you can only go on regular passenger trains, and only IF the train personnel agrees(i.e. hight loyalty in the particular town.) When riding a passenger train, your mercs should appear as "entrained" on the map screen.

Trains are good in many ways, they can't be shot down and they are faster then cars. They can also go right trough an sector with enemies, and if you make a freight train it should be able to carry all equipment you'll ever need. But as stated above, they need to be implemented right in the game.

Next part : Interaction with trains and tracks, i.e. Blowing the stuff to hell!
Re: New modes of transport[message #47861] Thu, 17 February 2000 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:February 2000
Location: San Mona, Arulco
These are intregueing proposals, the destruction of transportation infrastructure to prevent enemy reinforcement is a "must have". I've never understood why the Queen's soldiers travelled in such small groups, on foot yet, and were thusly both slow and ineffective when it came to responding to your attacks.

If the enemy in JA3 reacted by sending in troops by land, sea and air, it would be a lot more challenging and realistic. Regarding the supply lines idea, it is interesting but unless you could put a cut-off sector under siege for a lengthy period of time, I doubt an enemy would be drastically affected {unless there's a only a few hours reserve on the liquor supply!}.

Moving on to vehicles, how about a Long Range desert Patrol {LRDP} style truck/lorry?. I met a gentleman a few years ago who fought in North Africa in WW2. They used modified heavy open backed GM trucks heavily loaded with supplies and lots and lots of weoponry.

The vehicles packed several types of MGs, anti tank rifles and even mortars and small cannon. No two were exactly the same. They were motorized guerrilas, raiding convoys, bases and airfields. They usually fought from the vehicles themselves but sometimes used them as a base of operations.

I don't think it would be too hard to find a use for something along these lines in JA. A "war wagon" would be an ideal carrier for all your merc's gear as well as an effective and mobile "headquarters" or firebase. The custom factor would be cool, as many players would have differing ideas on how to modify their vehicle.

"Charlie don't care, he'll slit your throat"

[This message has been edited by Rosco (edited 16 February 2000).]
Re: New modes of transport[message #47862] Thu, 17 February 2000 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
Adding to your points on trains.
Trains could be run by civilians but used by either the enemy or your forces as transportation. For instance Diedranna has a train running on a regular basis taking weapons & ammunition from Meduna to say Cambria & Alma & returning with recruits from Alma going on leave at Meduna & shipping medical supplies back from Cambria as part of a schedule. Say you recieve information about that schedule and wait at some sector where you can stop the train.

Just say that you are able to stop trains by.
1. Detonating a tree next to the line with explosives causing a blocked track.
2. Detonating explosives in a cutting causing a landslide to block the tracks.
3. Blowing up a section of track.
4. Comandeering a signalbox and stopping a train by throwing a red light or switch.
5. Blowing a bridge or tunnel.
6. Firing Laws or Mortars at the locomotive. (bad for loyalty killing civilian rail workers)

A stopped train battle could be resolved much like any battle is now with a vehicle the only difference being that a train on tracks is stationery in some part of a sector instead of a Hummer or Ice-Cream Van. Not complicated. The rolling stock could be damageable as vehicles are now.

As far as using Arulco as a map.
The whole rail system would need to be thought out from the start not added on. To me a line running Meduna-Cambria-Drassen-Omerta and another running Meduna-Balime then branching towards Alma & what about some small 1 sector lumber mill-villages in the forest & unaccessible areas east of Alma & Balime. There is loads of space there for more populated sectors to be included which leads me to another proposal.

Single sector towns or industries connected only by rail with incomes seperate from the mines. These would have their own strategic, transportation & economic value. These places could have a reduced militia capacity due to smaller populations, say 10 militia available as guards. Timber mill, fishing village, oil well, factory etc.

The idea of a command vehicle sounds practical. Could have a storage inventory much like a sector but say limited to 5o or 100 slots. If you lose the sector containing the vehicle the enemy captures it. Once again battles with enemies using transport could be resolved same as they are now. Their vehicle is parked at the edge of the sector & winning side controls it at the end of the battle. Id even go for a single MG as armament on a command vehicle so that a merc must be inside to fire it. They simply act as a gunner using X ap to fire the gun. Offers armour protection but is vulnerable to LAWS or Mortars or Grenades.

Of all the things I've ever lost I miss my mind the most.
Regards Bearpit
Re: New modes of transport[message #47863] Thu, 17 February 2000 19:15 Go to previous message
Registered:February 2000
The local population had to have at one time better methods than feet for moving between cities. Where did all the bicycles go? Ox carts? Cow-drawn wagons? Steal a tractor from the Hicks? There have to be light pickups or something hanging around.

Trains are a great idea to attack/use. A pivotal point in the game would be whether to destroy it to save time, money, blood, etc. and deny it to the enemy, or attempt to capture it with minimal damage.

In JA1, I wished for a simple rubber boat to allow me to strike along the coastline. I could not believe I could hire mercenaries with machine guns, but not go to Sunny's Surplus and buy a Zodiac (tm) inflatable boat.

However, any new vehicles should be:
1) well-thought-out and coded so they aren't gimmicks.
I want trucks the enemy AI uses which i can steal and sneak past checkpoints. I want to be able to load a jeep with cargo and a single merc. I want a HMMWV which can GO OFFROAD! If the chopper can overfly the sector and spot bad guys, I should be able to shoot at them, or get dumped off on the perifery of the sector. Don't criple things. The most infuriating event in any game is the realization that you can't do something only because the programmers didn't think of it. I play JA-games because I don't need to find no stinkin' key! Shotgun! Lockpick! C4! This type of multi-purpose improvisation should extend further.
2) Fit into the setting. A $65,000 Humvee in a small island country? Maybe if the mechanic explained how it belonged to someone in Balime.... I'd rather have multiple light pickups or real surplus Army Jeeps than one Humvee, especially one that can't leave the road.
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