Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » JA2 Renegade Republik » Game world and mapmaking
| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153763]
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Mon, 20 August 2007 16:22  
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 CNC_gun |
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Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF |
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Nice video. Just the same, but a bit "scientized", and in still pictures, is on my worktable. Wait, please...
All looks true, exept for angles! The (near_to_)true isometry on digitized plane of finite (!!!) dimentions must have "legs/cathets" in relation X/Y=7/4.
More realistic pictures can be made in vector environment, like FreeHand, Illustrator, Inkscape, Canvas (!), and even in MS Word (the easiest tool to print isometric grid template)!!!
In JA2 - no second floor - just optical tricks and restrictions (by engine and game phisics).
But a real staircase - it's true, really possible, with minor code modification. In a few words - a control of nearby JSD must be added, when engine start "climb_on_roof" action. We simply add "stairwalk" animation (can be easily made from some sets in anims.slf), and if the engine find "stair_JSD" next to "human_body", it play the alternative animation.
[Updated on: Mon, 20 August 2007 16:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153832]
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Mon, 20 August 2007 23:24
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| CNC_gun |
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Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF |
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Many Thanks! Feeled it!!! Even have made an astronomic geosolar model with geoid axe inclination - just to understand why our mod "Banana Hell" will never be finished - it was geographically placed in the northern "Cariba" - Northern Hemisphere. Shadows were wrong, so mod is sunk (sinked, bah, foutu, pour tout dire, na!)
So, we are in South Hemisphere, but we can still add staircases and second floors (optically faked!) - engine modification provided.
Dechets philosophiques...
Ha! A good gift for my birthday! Now drill (?!) sergeant! Strange - captain would be true, but sergeant? Officer should make a "pit of sheet(yes!)" to become sergeant!
[Updated on: Mon, 20 August 2007 23:30] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #155607]
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Mon, 03 September 2007 22:09
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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enemy redistribution isn't all that bad as long as you keep their positions more or less in such a way that the player doesn't have to teleport back and forth too many times. if you work with priority placements and round point patrols, you may achieve it that the player doesn't have to go back and forth.
night operations or rain in 1.13 could however make it tricky... more teleporting required.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #159706]
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Fri, 28 September 2007 21:25
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| CNC_gun |
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Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF |
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Please look the WW2 thread - forgot to switch thread!
In order the pictures are
1. Администрация - any official thing must be a black or blue tile (10x16 ratio - golden partition), only one game tile or wall width. State or Republic Armoiries - obligatory.
If You want something BIG and LONG - it may be the enterprise (kolkhoze) name with logo - like "Usine Horloger OMEGA".
2. If You like the ВХОД - маке it more real, say ВХОД по ПРОПУСКАМ (Permission only Entrance).
And, pour l'amour du Dieux, remove those Stars - Only on gates, in geometrical centre.
2.1 Опасность - have You ever seen a "Danger!" on the side wall? What kind of danger? "Don't piss - electrical shock?"
Like a joke - make a "Не подходи - рухнет!" (Don't approach - will fall!)
3. Магазин means STORE or SHOP. And always near the shop (store) entrance, You know...
3.1 Second ВХОД - маке it ПРЕДЪЯВИ ПРОПУСК (Show Pass).
And reduce the star dimensions.
((Joke) Or, instead, Shall change my sign. to "25 chars x 25 lines Swizer Kreuz"! (Joke))
Think You were and are "sous les drapeaux". Have You ever seen a white cross on a sentinel box?
4. Приватно was explained in WW2 thread.
[Updated on: Sat, 29 September 2007 09:31] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #159731]
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Fri, 28 September 2007 22:52
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| MAn |
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Messages:9
Registered:June 2007
Location: Kharkov-city, USSR |
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Scorpion, please, don`t take offence at us. You are cool modder, really 
But why do you consider there are red stars everywhere in Russian Federation (joke  just it`s right in essence).
- first screen: АДМИНИСТРАЦИЯ - o.k. (wrong, but for the game - o.k.)
- second: ВХОД - o.k. (in that case - ok, because there`s the door close to gateway)
ОПАСНОСТЬ - ok, all is right
- third: ВХОД - wrong, because... it`s hard for me to explain (bad english), maybe CNC_gun? Although... for the game... it`s enough suitable. To take out the star and - o.k. Actually ВЪЕЗД is well. Ah! Here`s simple explanation: if may walk through then ВХОД; if may drive through then ВЪЕЗД.
(Правильно, дядь Саша? ведь есть же вход на территорию зоопарка или заповедника?)
МАГАЗИН - ok, actually now our stores very often have signs supermarket/minimarket/marketstore/megastore (торгаши поганые). Nevertheless: supermarket - УНИВЕРМАГ or УНИВЕРСАМ, foodstore - ПРОДУКТЫ or ГАСТРОНОМ, liquor store - ВИНО-ВОДКА, and many others... what need? Marketplace - РЫНОК or БАЗАР (bazar).
- fourth: ПРИВАТНО - such caption aren`t used anywhere in our countries, CNC is quite right (in addition, probably this is grammatical mistake because ПРИВАТНО in english - "privetly", adverb. But in Russian more often speak "частным образом" or "в частном порядке" instead of "приватно").
These are all russian captions in your mod?
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Private
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #159791]
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Sat, 29 September 2007 11:50
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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so, those stars... they have been removed in russian federation? does only the army still use them? the problem is, those stars are very characteristic for how some of my potential players imagine signs in eastern europe to look like. I agree that the 5-edged star on that stupid isometric entrance sign is kind of wrong. I really might consider removing that.
CNC_gun:
ВХОД по ПРОПУСКАМ would be superb i guess, just look at how small the sign is... i'd never bring this long caption onto such a small sign. Look how many tiles (4? or even 6?) administratija requires (and it is still not really readable)
Danger on the side wall means the guy who owns this big building does not want you to enter his rooms without permission. it's his subtle way of telling "keep the hell out"
(plus it can be used almost everywhere where trigger-generated electrical shocks (yes, they exist in ja2 RR) or explosions or gas or everything can happen. I find "danger" to be one of the most versatile signs to put in a game. The exclamation mark and the red color should help drawing interest.
magasin is shop or store.. that's fine. My picturesque little villages don't have supermarkets yet, plus the "store" is short enough to fit onto the 1-tile (or is it 2) sign.
see the mod doesn't have to play in 2010. It might be set in 1995 or such...
bazar would probably be a good one for certain maps too. that's short enough and still ok...
so, what would be a good sign to replace "privately" then? should be about the same lenght and be possible to use in same circumstances. suggestions?
no, these aren't all captions, i think there are some more somewhere in the screens...
i don't take offence. I'm glad you guys care about those details. Just hope you guys won't take offence either if there are many more details that don't fit. remember it's a ja2 mod and not google earth south russia and caucasus area (this is a joke too...)
also, changing certain signs will require to do a lot of stupid annoying work and i don't know how likely i will undertake major changes to them.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #159812]
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Sat, 29 September 2007 15:23
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i think i have the red star only on this "entrance" sign and on that little guardhouse thing...
... oh, on one of the ships i think i also have one, too.
they often accompany each other. But i don't have it on vehicles, and when the player goes further to the south, the signs will change.
i'll appreciate help. Do you remember what i wrote about re-recording characters during public beta? the very same is true for any type of graphics, including of course captions, decals, symbols, etc.
i'm hoping that with the help of the community we can in the long run improve the mod significantly. I mean you surely know which graphic from vanilla ja2 i used to draw that "entrance" sign on. Anybody provides me a better sign that still fits the purpose and i see that i insert it correctly into all the tilesets where it's used.
But note that whenever i'm in doubt, i tend to prefer my own stuff
That's very difficult for others to work with me, so unless their stuff is really top notch, i'll be hesitating to trash my own work.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #159845]
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Sat, 29 September 2007 21:19
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| CNC_gun |
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Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF |
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Just as excuse - i missed Your comments - as per МАГАЗИН - if You meant DEPOT - it must be СКЛАД!!! Always. And it's universal, military or "cereals", and fits everywhere. But, ordinary, signboards were and are fitted on the front wall, near the ВХОД (entrance).
Once more about stars... We never haven't have so many stars like others, and it was something Sacral, Spiritual (if You want) in those Red Stars, so they never been putted everywhere anybody wanted.
And the ones on the screenshots looks caricatural... Hope, this wasn't Your intention.
Till 1970-ties the GOST norm prescribed all signs (like Danger) to be more informative (what kind of Danger) and to be Triangle or Rectangle, yellow with black border.
Prescribing ones were White with Green border (like the most jokemaking "Не влезай - убьет!" - "Don't climb (IN or ON ) - Will Kill!". Oh, i see mr. Gates smile...)
It seems relat. simple to make two universal wall decalcs - a blue vertical rectangle (10x16 ratio), with a yellow-red circle (dot) on top, and a couple of simple white lines.
That will means communal institutions. If You want "tending to independence" Caucasus (one third, in fact), those decalcs would be GREEN with White lines.
The state institutions "decalcs" would be horizontal rectangles with same ratio, but with GOLD text and State Emblem (?).
One more idea - after 1993 it was an "Avalanche of raised standards" - before, it was prohibited to raise any kind of Flag, Banner, (doubly) Standard without official party comittee permission.
So, You can mark the official and army locations with a raised flag of any kind. Hope, You are able to make a four frames animation, or a sti with a pending flag, instead.
Please kindly PM me the textes to be recorded - we shall imagine something, here in Moscow. Can even said, there are two REAL Caucasians ready to "give their voices". They were involved in WW2 mod, as voices of commando members. BTW, served in Army right in the hearth of Caucasus too...
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #163474]
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Sat, 03 November 2007 12:21
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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well, this was done before and without the 3d models, there's not much you can do to save this bitmaps. But replacement bitmaps would be super :super:
on a very unrelated note, but also linked to our game world, anybody followed the troubles in georgia? their prez is apparently going to postpone the elections and is now facing a lot of pressure from the street...
... the same pressure that allowed him to Coup-d'etat his predecessor. They were showing archive materials, and guess what? Those guys shown in the footage were wearing all-black, coats and stuff
and, of course, demonstrations, with which our fictional RR story begun, have started as well in Georgia. let's hope our stupid little story doesn't come anywhere close to true ;-(
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #166974]
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Sat, 08 December 2007 18:33
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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there's triggers that open those doors, but the wire must be cut first plus those areas that are inaccessible don't contain anything so basicly there's nothing to worry about if these rooms are left dark.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #166976]
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Sat, 08 December 2007 18:45
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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also, totally unrelated, i get a run-time error trying to run your (tried using beta17 and 24)tabledata files. do you happen to know which one of the files is the problem?
how far would one have to revert to get a game starting?
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #166991]
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Sat, 08 December 2007 20:12
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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eh, sorry, i found out your tabledata files (ww2 mod) weren't the problem ;-D
my bad. nevermind i wasted your time.
i'm trying to set your mod up you see.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #167005]
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Sat, 08 December 2007 21:32
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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well i try to set your xml's up in data-ww2 not just dropping them into data or data-1.13 so the installation processes are more sophisticated. Your armours.xml has been at least loaded by beta17 and beta24 so it can't be that dramatic. I have a mess with the items though.
i leave it currently to the player to decide if he wants those 5 minutes or the way it is now. it has never bothered me, as i said, both settings can make sense depending on what one's viewpoint is
the map won't be altered. i see no reason for doing that. Rather have a new map once i get into the mood of mapping again.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #167015]
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Sat, 08 December 2007 22:30
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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for others it's no hassle to have one more install. Just me i'm running low on disk space. it's not a problem of your mod though. and i'd say for the actual development it's easier to work the way you do so no problem.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #167070]
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Sun, 09 December 2007 13:52
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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by the way what i wrote to you in one of the mails proved to be wrong. The mines can be moved. I was just too damn lazy before, asking the coders to do this while i could have done it myself when there still was the time.
this means of course, totally new game worlds are possible. I haven't researched the facilities, but i guess they could work in a similar fashion. Man how freakin cool would it be to have the stupid airfields and hospitals moved to different locations. well, these things are probably not going to make it into ja2 RR final release, but for anybody who has an actually *original* mod setting, this could prove invaluable.
seeing that i could have found out about this and implemented it into less than half a day hurts me bad, as the only serious point of criticism in the developing state of the mod was the similarity to vanilla ja2 in terms of the towns. Looks like i missed it big time there.
anyway, to those of you that are playing the mod, what would you people think if i moved the mines to different sectors, maybe even shift parts of towns? I had done this in ja2 vengeance and a big number of players had problems finding the mines...
maybe i'll have a mod for ja2 RR that moves towns and mines. Just for advanced players who can find the new mining sectors ;-D (in my example it is still very easy to find the new sectors, but i can move them anywhere, so...)
what i haven't found yet is where to edit the money output of the mines. this seems to be stored elsewhere. I'll have a look. If this works, i might even be able to reactivate san mona mine... that'd be awesome...
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #170319]
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Thu, 10 January 2008 15:33
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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thanks, MikeThePro
hope you've encountered and recruited Mike? (btw i have repliad to your posting a long time ago but it has dissapeared during some routine maintainence or whatever)
khor1255
i have some information for you about kingpin's assassins:
it looks like them turning hostile is hardcoded, plus it happens more than just once! BIG Problem here. I forced Jim to lower his gun, end combat and become friendly (after he killed one of my mercs) then he runs away, wandering the map but at a certain point he turned hostile again.
key element seems to be turn based versus realtime. In turnbased, the assassins behave just like any civilian, but in real time, they seem to wander the maps looking for the player's party and turn hostile. The turning hostile itself is hardcoded, the history log line and any speeches however are apparently in the script.
interestingly, if you force jim to lower the gun but keep the game turn based, we won't attack anymore. However, since he's still hostile, this helps little.
i'm unsure as to whether they actually attack enemies too. There's a function that makes NPC's attack players as well as enemies. would have to test that.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #170326]
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Thu, 10 January 2008 17:57
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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yeah i was kind of afraid you'd get stuck in dead ends there.
plus it was something i needed to research. Might have another go at it one day.
what do you mean about slay? does he turn hostile and then back friendly again? pablo does so as well if you beat him up, but i think pablo has a specfic trigger for this, but i'd have to test pablo (i never let things get stolen so i haven't beaten him up since i had to test this feature in ja2 rr development)
so i can imagine that turning normal hostile NPC's friendly under certain conditions is doable, but i think in cases where their hostility is hardcoded or faction-based, they'd probably keep turning hostile. This would probably also apply to Mike ;-/
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Sergeant Major
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