resolving urgent issues[message #127309]
|
Fri, 18 August 2006 18:51
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
usually such things would be discussed in a secret forum but we're transparent
and we happen to have no secret forum anyway :angel:
so, currently there's a critical issue to be resolved and i'm uncertain what alternative to pick
the problem is, that the 1.13 engine that we were using as a base for this mode is being gangraped and ripped apart with cheat modes and features we can't effectivly control. What does that mean? it means the valiant effort by the 1.13 coding team to get their engine back on track might still not be enough to get it back to what it was speaking in terms of moddability.
so we basicly have few alternative
-using the backup engine that features great stuff as well
this option would be definitly the last resort
-solving, disabling and working around all cheat modes and crap features but sticking with the very latest version. This would cost us high sacrifices in terms of customizations and ingame features. Currently this looks a good choice though
-using older 1.13 exes prior to many issues
not a good option since the necessary extenalisations are not yet in but the cheat modes are
other issues
- mapmaking
i`m runnin short on time to doing most of the mapmaking. Thx Azazel for helping me. has anybody seen durty dan anywhere? He used to contribute maps as well
hopefully not more to be added later :luckystrike:
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127311]
|
Sun, 20 August 2006 02:19
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
yes, i think trying to find coder support will be the key in this issue. I think i can't dissapoint all the 1.13 fans by picking another exe. so we must find a way
i have a great idea, but i will have to ask/ test / code the implementation
a fair deal, so to say
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127313]
|
Sun, 20 August 2006 04:16
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
it's not only the cheat features. it is also incredibly unstable and people hardly ever play until the end of a campaign in 1.13
plus if i work around most crap features, other, good features might get lost too.
you see, whatever i do, i have to make sacrifices. (and of course i can't expect the team to disable their beloved cheatfeatures now can i?)
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127315]
|
Thu, 24 August 2006 00:41
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
both aspect play a role
the problem is, if you have no fixpoints in the game at all, you can't make any balance
and the second is, 1.13 is a modmking engine. it is normal that a modmkaing engine is open for everyone to make changes, to experiment, to cheat in the most extreme cases to master the insane modus. For a mod that has custom content it is however necessary to have a valid balance. I'm not making the mod for myself. i'm making the mod for everyone who wants to play it. The 1.13 team didn't set all weapon damage vaues to zero and said, well folks, there are xml's, do it yourself. Why? it's obvious, you need fixpoints in a game
so. 1.13 needs to stay open. But modmakers need a way to secure their balance. and the 1.13 team knows that, muggsy and starwalker are pretty much aware of this issue and i believe they can come up with decent solutions
you get me wrong. i'm not protectig the people from themselves, i need a chance to balance my mod. Do youwork with 1.13?
taxacaria mentioned it, it is currently close to impossible to bring in a financial balance. and a nice weapon balance is very hard as well, given the high numbers of enemies and especially elites dropping high end gear early on
rowa21 is working on a partial solution to that, so the team knows there are urgent balance problems to be resolved
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127317]
|
Thu, 24 August 2006 04:06
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
i think you're pretty much on the spot here. i can't seem to get things right. i think i made some mistakes in the devlopment process.. tried too hard to take advantage of the awesome 1.13 features and look what disaster i caused in the last couple of days.
however the positive aspect is that i have much support from the voice actors and i have the necessary faces so this means a certain versatility when it comes to making adjustments and pay caution to the playability.
i'm so looking forward to good mods.
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127318]
|
Sun, 27 August 2006 02:54
|
|
Marlboro Man |
|
Messages:1159
Registered:October 2005 Location: USA |
|
|
Hello Scorpion,
I understand fully how you feel about using 1.13 as your base for your mod. I also think the modmaker should be able to set his or her limits in respect to overall plot and game play experience that you the modmaker expect. I am only a game player and respect the decisions of the modmakers. I too hope some day to get a mod going myself. I have alot to learn though, and as my years start to wane now, I hope to have the chance to do it. Like I said I don't know diddley squat about modmaking, coding, or even how to do a decent pic to implement into the game, I am just a game player. What I don't understand is why you can't make the mod the way you want it played? Why can't you have the options ini set to the the overall balance of the way you intend your mod to be played? Or have 2 .exe versions of your mod at ready time. One version the correct version of the way you want people to play it and then another version a freeforall version, that other people can play whatever way they like. Like the way 1.13 is at the moment. I see 1.13 as still very young in it's stages, with alot of "ideas" coming and going. I think it is a good thing that we try to "experiment" and try new ideas no matter how crazy or cheat related they may seem. That way we can "weed out" the good ideas from the bad.
Well I just wanted you to know that I support your mod 100%. And hope that you don't let some people bring you down too much. There are alot of "giant" egos around here, so don't let them step on your toes, espcially when you know you are in the right. Compromise in your ideas.
Take Care, and keep up the great work. We are all in this together.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127320]
|
Mon, 28 August 2006 11:56
|
|
Kaiden |
|
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003 |
|
|
@Scorpion - My offer does still stand.
And if you think of it like this...
Mods may WANT to have their own executables, a 1.13 exe that is specific to that point in which their mod was completed. Granted, newer features may come out afterwards, but your mod would not be balanced for those features. And any player who wanted to use those features within your mod could always just replace your executable with the latest and greatest 1.13 mod executable and use all the new features. They would also of course, then be able to modify anything in the INI file to their hearts content.
I think this is a consideration that was NOT discussed in the thread that shall remain nameless.
Instead of password protected files, encrypted files etc... a seperate executable with one single modified file (gamesettings.cpp) is all that is needed.
Then your players have their choice, Ja2v113.exe or JA2RR.exe.
One would be balanced your way, and the other would be balanced the players' way.
And updated executables could be very easily upgradable. If we allow more AIM mercs and you want that in your mod 4 months after it's been completed and released, request a new EXE.
It REALLY is as simple as moddifying a single cpp file and can be done in a matter 15-20 minutes. Send me a list of INI options you want disabled, or what you want their values to be and BAM, it's done.
Considering that we want Version 1.13 to be a base platform for modding, I would like to think that any of the other coders would be willing to do this as well.
Granted, NONE of this helps your XML files, but those are more protected than a simple INI file, and lowering the cost of a weapon or two does less to destroy game balance.
Counting the time of compiling, it will take a coder less than an hour to impliment hard-coded values for any and all INI options. The values are actually there in the code as defaults, all they need to do is disable INI file reading which can easily be done by changing the INI file section it's looking for to a non-existant value, and then change the default value to your liking.
And it could be done regularly, it could be done with every official 1.13 if you wanted all the new features.
Now other features that are not in the INI file or the XML's, but rather on the Options screen or just on by default, those are more difficult to change, and it would primarily depend on how many and which ones you need to be disabled.
Now that's not my stance on the subject, my stance is find your set values and balance from there, letting the mod-playing public decide for themselves. But then again, I'm the primary one responsible for causing this problem (drop-all being on the options screen withstanding) So I'm biased. Granted my initial intention in externalizing difficulty settings, was to make the game more difficult, not to make it easier. To each their own though.
Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127321]
|
Tue, 29 August 2006 06:41
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
great to hear from you Kaiden.
In fact a proprietary exe file would be a good solution to the problem.
i hope i can come back to your offer when the mod is ready/ far advanced enough to start making own exes. curreently, the frequency of new exes is high and i hope that my most urgent requests are fulfilled (some are alreday, thx a lot!) soon. Once they are, we can start customizing the exe apart from further 1.13 releases. But until then, i can't hold you off from the 1.13 main project.
i'll for sure let you know about customizing the executable. thx
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127322]
|
Thu, 19 October 2006 22:42
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
So. Update on this:
Time. Time is going to be the issue on my side very soon. In the last couple of months, RR has grown more content than all previous ja2 mods combined. Off course, a lot of that content was disabled again for reasons of quality control.
anyway, the biggest jumps in development have been made, also, the 1.13 engine has addede a lot of important features so that currently, merely 1 bugfix (mines) and one externalisation request (underground sectors) will be of critical importance to the mod as it stands now.
what will be left is updating/ improving/ filling up the maps wherever there remain gaps, completeing and cleaning up the voices! testing and fixing the quests ;-( and then adding some more items for storyline and looks.
So, still this year, i want to start a pre-betatesting phase. Normally i wouldn't do that, but ja2 rr is so much larger than what i've previously worked on it seems necessary that the features that stand the moment i'll have to end the hottest development phase will get tested and revised.
additionally to that, a further voice actor casting for remaining NPC characters will be held.
i still hope for people that were/ are doing contributions to reappear once they find the time, this applies to Durty Dan, Vicky, Mac harry, porcupine floyd. Some info on what they're doing will easen the coordination work that will have to be done to make that pre-beta for testing.
Not that i'll do what they have already done just out of the lack of knowledge and coordination.
custom data stands currently at around 800 megs with 200 of it not really required for testing so 600 megs i think that still can be compressed enough to get some nice testing in some serious timeframe.
sure, 2-3 more RPC speeches and various NPC speeches will raise the amount of data again, but then the final release will still be in a scale that makes sense.
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127324]
|
Wed, 22 November 2006 02:36
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
that would help greatly to decrease any mod's size. is .ogg a lossless sound format?
some of the sound masters also implied that this would help a lot. i personally don't know too much about sounds though.
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: resolving urgent issues[message #127338]
|
Wed, 06 December 2006 04:18
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
Lesh
i tested garrison, army composition and patrol groups, that works well, finally i can have soldiers whererver i want them! so next test game will have a fully playable endgame.
i also found a patrol where i wanted them to go and the garrisons i changed were how i wanted them to be.
next test gonna be 13th and more towns in cities.xml
oh, i have one more question (*columbo*), as always: where are the underground garrisons? are the enemies in k4_b1.dat part of the k4 garrison? same with j9, p3 and so on. cut i'd like to have more hostile underground for a change. i mean it could be fun to fight in the mines or so for a change...
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
|
effective development reduced/ halted[message #128330]
|
Sun, 04 February 2007 23:50
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
I will only be able to do very little work for the project in the next time do to various reasons
i really hope that the voice clear up actions and the testing can continue without major input from my side in the next weaks
i will develop the next version once i get more time for this, probably end of march or such
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
|
|
Re: effective development reduced/ halted[message #132606]
|
Tue, 13 March 2007 23:47
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
don't understand your posting Will. I guess you're referring tom soemthing different than i
however, it looks quite like the project in it's current approach is dead.
i'll post some news if there'll be any.
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|
|
next round troubleshooting[message #137026]
|
Fri, 27 April 2007 18:37
|
|
the scorpion |
|
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
|
|
looking for troubleshooters for SVN based testing.
you're preferably willing to also help out in sound volume adustment.
thx
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant Major
|
|
|