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Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130118] Sun, 18 February 2007 19:04 Go to next message
sturmendrang
Messages:4
Registered:February 2007
Location: Sweden
My squads are currently equipped in this following manner, sci-fi ed. (Mortars, grenades, HW and hand-to hand are not included).

1) 2 assault rifles. XM-29 OICW.
2) 1 long range, precision sniper. DSR-1.
3) 1 medium to long heavy sniper. Barrett 50.
4) 1 short range sniper. HK PSG1.
5) 1 machinegunner. Various.

A) What kind of silenced weapons could I replace these with? Some obvious choices might be the Vychlop for 3) and VSS Vintorez for 4). I'm not sure about these, though.
Even so, that leaves the long-range sniper without. I can't find any guns with the Lapua ammo's range, precision and caliber (dmg) that allows for Heavy Silencer and I guess there has to be both a silencer and subsonic/Cold ammo for such a weapon. Is there one?

B) What are the dmg and range reductions for, say, an OICW packing Match 5.56 vs a silenced OICW, packing the red Cold AP 5.56? Can't seem to find a table with numbers to crunch.

C) Should I continue to use the Field Ops add-ons for the Dyneema, which do offer great protection and camo, or should I find something which fits with the Stealth Ops leggings and such? Are the Stealth Ops add-ons worth it?

D) For secondary weapons for snipers, I'm currently using the G11 (yeah, it's lame but fun), but for those not strong enough I'm using the small-slot MP Beretta 93R or the Steyr TMP (SMG). Should I silence these, which do great dmg close up with AET, and put in some lesser Cold or somesuch? Or are there any, preferrably small, silenced SMG that will fit the bill?

Yeah, I'm a new player not playing on novice so I appreciate any edge I can get on these cunning little bastards. Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 18 February 2007 21:34] by Moderator

Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130162] Mon, 19 February 2007 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kmieciu4eveR

 
Messages:7
Registered:February 2003
In my opinion 9mm AET SMG are the way to go - MP5SD is the quietest one. AUG 9mm and Calico SMG have more range, but require additional silencers. MP7 and P90 are in my opinion just too good... and that makes them lame.
Remember that when an enemy hasn`t spotted you yet, you can often kill him with one well-placed throwing knife.
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130163] Mon, 19 February 2007 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sturmendrang
Messages:4
Registered:February 2007
Location: Sweden
Interesting. I sort of assumed the AET would raise the noise levels, due to not being "Cold" or reduced in load, thus making the silencer on the MP5SD useless? (Well, I don't mean useless, just not working alright).

Never tried the Calico, MP7 or the P90 (latter looks nice), but I'm not sure if they're too good for player just starting out. Even after decades of playing X-com and such, I still find the mid-difficult setting in JA2 to be more than a match - since I rarely or never reload.

Cheers for the info, though. Knives are fun, too. Nothing beats sneaking up on a roof to silently chop an unsuspecting sniper with a machete Smile

(Yeah, I'm aware there are threads about knifing and such. I just haven't found a thread detailing the optimal silenced sniper squad :scan: ).

[Updated on: Mon, 19 February 2007 14:25] by Moderator

Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130182] Mon, 19 February 2007 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Apollo

 
Messages:57
Registered:November 2003
Location: England
A silenced MP7 is good, especially with AET. Better, however, is two MP7's in the hands of an ambidextrous character... makes for a great point-(wo)man, especially if they have a VSS Vintorez for the longer-range shots...
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130274] Tue, 20 February 2007 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sturmendrang
Messages:4
Registered:February 2007
Location: Sweden
Apollo
A silenced MP7 is good, especially with AET. Better, however, is two MP7's in the hands of an ambidextrous character... makes for a great point-(wo)man, especially if they have a VSS Vintorez for the longer-range shots...


Yeah, the MP7 with AET works wonders in close quarters, too bad it doesn't fly at range... which is what I'm looking for. But it's a good weapon and I guess putting two on one merc will pretty much annihilate everything, even at mid-range, due to the sheer amount of bullets!

Been trying the following:
2 OICWs/C7/random HK platform, with silencers. Steyr TMP silenced AET as sidearm.
2 Vychlops, Beretta MP silenced AET.
1 Vintorez, Beretta MP silenced AET.
1 DSR-1 non silenced, MP7 silenced AET.

Everyone also carries complements of K-bar cutlass or similar, heavier knives. And it seems to work very well.

Night ops are basically a fun manouvre consisting of the assault rifles moving in first as spotters, then the Vychlops pretty much mow down everything. The Vintorez then finishes off any criticals. The DSR-1 is then used in the final stages, when the ambush has been discovered, or to pick off any buggers on the rooftops.

Still trying to find a silenced rifle with any good range (80+) though...
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130460] Thu, 22 February 2007 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
Good rifle suggestion:
Knight SR-25, 7,62X51 (7.62 Nato), range 780 and will accept a surpressor.
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #130773] Sun, 25 February 2007 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sturmendrang
Messages:4
Registered:February 2007
Location: Sweden
The CZ 700 also does accept a supressor, has a decent range and is really (11) accurate. (Bolt action though). Still, a nice choice when your Vychlops won't reach a target.

That's the problem with the HK sniper rifle automatics I've tried, an accuracy of 5+ or similar. Can't seem to find a decent and accurate automatic that can be silenced... Think I tried your SR-25 when I first started JA2 a month ago, though, and so it definitely deserves another go.

Edit: (Yeah, I know the Vychlop's got acc. of about 5 too, strangely it seems to hit the target at a much higher freq. than most rifles at that lvl).

[Updated on: Sun, 25 February 2007 14:05] by Moderator

Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #170450] Fri, 11 January 2008 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2044
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
One you all missed is the MSG-90 with Heavy Silencer and Cold Loaded 7,62mm ammo. That thing is a beast at night with a Sniper Scope or Battle Scope (Sniper gets better results but severely limited FOV).

I use a couple of those, VSS Vintorez for Reaper and one VSSK. P90 and MP7 are pretty broken, but then the FN FiveseveN and the HK Mk23 are almost as broken too. The G11 PDW should be removed or stats edited (shouldn't be allowed Trigger Group).


Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #170770] Mon, 14 January 2008 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:766
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Kaerar
P90 and MP7 are pretty broken, but then the FN FiveseveN and the HK Mk23 are almost as broken too. The G11 PDW should be removed or stats edited (shouldn't be allowed Trigger Group).

The P90, MP7, and FiveseveN use special highspeed ammo to achieve their special effects. This ammo cannot be coldloaded without losing very much of its special effect (imagine throwing gravel at a tank [O.K., the comparison is a bit overdone Wink ]). Subsonic ammo does exist for the P90 and FiveseveN, but it would be just as effective as the grey ammo (for which you do not really need a P90..) because it has standard bullets instead of the special ones.

The SOCOM pistol is a problem because of the ammo. The .45ACP round, if fired from a pistol barrel, is subsonic already. But if we give it the 'subsonic' sound reduction, then a M1911A1 (for example) will sound very weak if fired without a sound suppressor.
Or short: at the moment I see no way to simulate ammo that sounds normal if fired unsuppressed and is totally silent if suppressed. The only thing that could do it properly would be an extra sound suppressor just for .45ACP pistols. But if I start making /one/ single-caliber-only suppressor I will be bombarded with questions why only the .45 gets its own suppressor...

I did not get around to the G11 PDW yet...


Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #178604] Wed, 19 March 2008 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hairysteed

 
Messages:193
Registered:December 2007
Location: Finland
Doesn't anyone consider SAF Silenciada? I think it's way better than MP5SD5! Better cyclic rate, just as quiet, more accurate, more range and it comes with a folding stock so there's room for an additional attachment (usually a foregrip).

My squads' stealth equipment is usually:

Sniper: SL9SD LAM-200, Bipod, 7x Battle scope (I mostly conduct stealth missions at night, so high-powered scopes aren't necessary)
CQB: SAF Silenciada, 2x scope, reflex sight, LAM-200, foregrip. Is usually quiet enough with AET
Automatic: Calico-960A (Good range, damage and large mag. Can fit an ACOG sight too), ACOG x4 Combo, LAM-200, Pistol suppressor and Rod&Spring (or trigger group)

I'm now experimenting with UMP .45 for cqb since it's the only SMG that can accept the ISM-V sight module, which has a greater laser and IR range than the LAM-200, although it gives no aiming bonuses (but hey, it's a cqb weapon anyway) The module leaves room for silencer, foregrip and rod&spring
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #178640] Thu, 20 March 2008 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:766
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Hairysteed
I'm now experimenting with UMP .45 for cqb since it's the only SMG that can accept the ISM-V sight module, which has a greater laser and IR range than the LAM-200, although it gives no aiming bonuses (but hey, it's a cqb weapon anyway) The module leaves room for silencer, foregrip and rod&spring

The ISM also gives you the Reflex Sight bonus...
And it fits onto the Magpul PDR, and I think that KAC PDW, too. Also fits onto the new Fabarm shotguns.


Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #190668] Sun, 13 July 2008 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Relentless707

 
Messages:41
Registered:July 2008
Location: Leeds UK
I have 2 Variations for a 6 man Team using Stealth Weapons.

FN Scar H 7.62 -
Attachments - 4x Acog Combo/Rifle LAM/AR Silencer/Foregrip -
Loaded with 7.62x51mm Cold Ammo [HP and AP] it's practically silent, but still has the punching power of an assault rifle with the range and with the 4x Acog Combo attachment they still have decent accuracy at medium-long range but low AP cost as with the normal Reflex Sight.

Or [my current use]

SAF Silencida loaded with 9x19mm AET ammo -
Attachments - Reflex Sight, Insight LAM, Foregrip.
It makes for a nasty SMG with low AP cost, totally silent [only noise you hear is the bolt flicking back from the automatic fire] high accuracy and can take out even the toughest Elites with an automatic burst - definetely a must have for Night Ops.

I keep regular SCAR H's same fit except Flash Suppressor rather than a Silencer for '' noisy '' missions, keeping the SAF Silencidas in the 2nd weapon slot for Storms/Rains/Urban Night Ops.

Another good addition with both those loadouts is to equip FN Pistols [5.7mm] with a Reflex Sight/Laser Sight/Pistol Silencer for a good, very low cost stealth weapon, with AET ammo loaded again, tears up Elites really badly - this is kept in the Machine Pistol Holster with 2x 5.7mm AET mags and the FN Pistol

[Updated on: Sun, 13 July 2008 23:59] by Moderator

Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #195917] Thu, 04 September 2008 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HeroForHire

 
Messages:23
Registered:August 2008
40 Heavy throwing knives and a combat knife on every merc.
Re: Stealth weapons squad - the ultimate choice?[message #196080] Mon, 08 September 2008 20:45 Go to previous message
goodman528

 
Messages:11
Registered:September 2008
In my last game (experienced difficulty) I used this squad for silent/night ops:

VSSK Vychlop -- Subsonic 12.7mm
VSS Vintorez -- Heavy 9mm
SR-25 [10x scope, flashlight-LAM, bipod, silencered] -- Cold 7.62mm

SAF Silenciada -- cold 9mm
AS VAL [Reflex sight, ? scope, LAM, Foregrip] -- Heavy 9mm
MP5SD -- Cold 9mm


The VSSK and SR-25 are used to cover the smg guys, so I can always keep the enemy in my sights when my smg guys close in on them. It works quite well because I could sometimes take entire sectors without reloading and without any mercs dying, which is impossible with just knives. The major problem is the heavy reliance on Bobby Rays for ammo, I initially used a 10mm smg and a 5.56mm G36 instead of MP5SD and VSS, but messing with too many ammo types just isn't fun when you run out in the middle of a fire fight.

In my current game on Insane difficulty (given myself more cash at the start for buying stuff from Bobby Rays), I'm finding this last set up is just not cutting it. I'm still experimenting, but the squad is something along these lines:

MP5SD -- Cold 9mm
MP7 (silencered) -- AET 4.6mm
MP5N (silencered) -- AET 9mm
SAF Silenciada -- AET 9mm
Glock 18 (silencered) ? 2 x HK HCP (silencered) ? -- AET 9mm, 4.6mm
AS-VAL? or Silencered and cold loaded 5.56mm AR?
SR-25? or VSS? or VSSK?

Basically anyone not capable of bursting twice a turn after being shot is not worth having, they all gotta be able to take out 2 or 3 guys a turn. I find I don't actually need any weapons beyond 20 tiles, 'cos generally if a fight breaks out at that range the stealth part has gone down the drain anyway, and everyone just full auto. Which is why I'm now thinking of a squad based entirely on 9mm and 4.6mm, 'cos guns like Glock 18 and MP7 are all capable of autoing 20+ rounds a turn.

I don't like standarising to the same gun, so I went to some trouble to get some different guns for my squads. But I love the idea of spraying bullets, so my stealth weapon selection doesn't see much action, I tend to hire Shadow, Monk, Tex, etc for one day and for one mission at a time.
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