Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance: Unfinished Business » Vanilla Modding » Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?
Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136314] Wed, 18 April 2007 15:45 Go to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Is it possible to have the code for jagged alliance open? I was thinking of an open source project to make it easy online accessable like the game Runescape are now.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136319] Wed, 18 April 2007 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
The code is open source. Look in the JA2 1.13 secion.


Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136320] Wed, 18 April 2007 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Is "JA2 1.13 secion" a link of some sort?
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136323] Wed, 18 April 2007 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Go to the forums and look for the "JA2 1.13 mod" section.


Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136340] Wed, 18 April 2007 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
The only released source code I can find is this: JA2 v1.13 Source Code 1.0.0.687 from http://ja2v113.schtuff.com . But this is not the original source code, only parts. And u can't install this modulation program without the original installation.

They are still selling the orig. game and haven't released it, but I think they should so interested could work on an online flash/java version.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136357] Thu, 19 April 2007 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
They have released the source code some time ago. I believe it still comes with Wildfire but should also be available in one of the modding forums. Maybe try http://www.khelle.de/news.php
or the 1.13 Wiki.

It is definately available and the coders on these boards will know how to get it.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136363] Thu, 19 April 2007 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
You're right: it was Here , thanks for the info! The readme tells it's for students and that u need ms vs6.0 to build it painlessly.

Does any one got any ideas about converting it into java/flash code and how to run it on a server? I was thinking about making a pluging for the cms e107, that connect to the game - also discussing that here. But should the game then be run on 1 dedicated server or on all servers with cms e107 installed? Cause they have to communicate with the same MySQL db.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136378] Thu, 19 April 2007 14:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Converting C/C++ Windows code to Java is not a project for the meek. You would need to be a very experienced programmer in C, C++, and Java. Frankly, you would probably be better off starting over.


Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136420] Fri, 20 April 2007 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Recently I asked in a store about games similar to jagged alliance, and some one suggested Brigade ES New Jagged Union, a kind of jagged alliance 3D version. But it's no good for several reasons:

What's the use of a turn-based game in 3D? If people really wanted 3D, they would play paintball and acquire everything to it! But the addictive thing about Jagged Alliance 2 was especially jokes about killing and sexual abuse. Fx. if u are a religious believer and start playing jagged alliance 2, which u have to figure out now and get the choice of aiming at feet, body or HEAD!!! WOW, I'm killing! And isometric view is alright for this! Next u are sneaking close to an enemy guard with a knife, okay throwing seems to damage more than close combat, but that's called AI rules. Here come along some jokes then: as u walk past all your killed enemies, your girl soldier yields "How revolutionary!!!" And with your buddism mind u proudly think: yeah and I killed them all! (Nothing like that in Brigade ES, they just didn't get it!) Furthermore u really want those better weapons and soon u get the choice of giving away one of your female mercenaries to a bunch of guys in exchange for equipment in a shed!!! U might even get all sweety and horny now! So if u build an upgrade, where u can buy all sorts of weapons from the start, u just didn't get it!

I have played Jagged Alliance 2 many months, throw it out because of all that "violence" and bought it again more times!! I have never reached the Queen D. and never figured out the use of all the items u can find or steal. I only played the sci-fi story once, cause I thought it was to scary in the cave... Unfinished Business was not so interesting, cause being able to see where to hide without detection is only about not getting killed. But the funny thing also is exactly when your mercenaries get killed and the others get mad about it and don't care about your orders.

The funny thing about Jagged Alliance 2 is figuring out "the story". Fx. when u find the T-Shirts at the fabric, can u just put them on and spy the enemy?

So something new would be a new story like new movies. I'm just getting tired of installing games everytime I have to try another one, so I thought about online webbrowser games.

Database in Multiplayer had to be on a common server, while it in Singleplayer could be on own server.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #136434] Fri, 20 April 2007 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Multiplayer would be cool. I'm looking foreward to some great mods thanx to te 1.13 coders making so many things completely moddable that used to only be hacked.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #138750] Mon, 14 May 2007 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BasiC_101

 
Messages:27
Registered:September 2006
Location: South Africa

Coprative multiplayer... yes please
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #139528] Mon, 21 May 2007 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
How about a multiplayer game with fingerprints, dna and faces involved to identify enemies? Furthermore I suggest ban of map or character expansions in multiplayer! Instead a complete new world should be written and the entire old one erase when main goal is accomplished by one or more players!
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #143454] Thu, 07 June 2007 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LuckyCarbon
Messages:4
Registered:June 2007
Location: WI
I'm working on creating a JA style Flash game right now actually.

I wasn't planning on using any of the original source code, like someone said above, more work to convert it that it would be worth ( especially from C to Flash/AS3 ).

The reason I came to the Bear's Pit to begin with was to look for ground/building textures. I'm sure I couldn't use them once I was ready to publish (legal BS) but I was hoping to use them as placeholders until the project was far enough along to recruit a good artist.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #143643] Fri, 08 June 2007 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
You might want to try the beta map editor or the UB editor that comes with unfinished buiseness to give you the full selection of map tiles.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #146247] Sat, 23 June 2007 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
What is a game compared to a movie in price? An interesting game usually takes longer to complete than a movie, and is so cheaper. A game also demands involvement from start to end, where a movie is often watched from the point u turn on the television. I bought Jagged Alliance 2 several times, but it still seems cheap compared to hours spent on some new movie.

The upgrade in Unfinished Business, where u can see where to hide from the enemy's vision is sort of like in commandos or desperado, but how can u know what the enemy is actually seeing? Unfinished Business neither have the custom merc employment questions. So I don't find Unfinished Business so interesting.

I would prefer a revision of Jagged Alliance 2, so it becomes more like chess and television channel.
1) The 16 questions for a custom merc should be made much more realistic. Until the source code was open, no one actually knew those consequences they had. How about looking into FBI profiling and such stuff to be more exact. Also People will no doubt discuss those questions and display a walkthrough, but what if those Questions changed everytime a new game started?
2) When u have played Jagged Alliance 2 once and know about the sexy Farmer with his many Boys and Cows, that it. U probably don't get ideas to jokes like that everyday, so why not let the story be updated through internet. When it happens, the producer will rewrite the story. A played game will not be updated, be any one starting a new game will enter a new story - like watching "a new movie". It will then also be more difficult to display a general walkthrough on internet. And people will then be more challenged to figure out the game.
3) Isometric view is fine. The only times I choose to rotate the map in other games like Civilization, is when I can't see: what's behind something. I would therefore prefer to keep the isometric view (which also is 3D). But why not enhance the graphics in much higher resolution. Screens are getting bigger too. Perhaps there could even be details of some one getting their ear, tit or hand blown off!!! And why make levels for underground, when ground floor and on top of building work so well? Can we have buildings with more floors please? Perhaps also a story where duct tape could be used around some one's mouth to prevent noise. Or other precations to cover up tracks of murder or movements??
4) Turn-based works well in combat situations, but perhaps interrupts could be dealt with better? What would real experienced soldiers - who also like to play games, say?
5) Could it be possible in the game to come into possesion of a weapon with unknown data until??

I am now playing at a social place where they have 6 computers and some people who enjoy competition. I was just wondering how it would be to play Jagged Alliance 2 Co-operative, perhaps each controlling 1 team. They also have a very large Screeen and X-box. If not multiplayer why not just more players with X-box then?
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #146465] Sun, 24 June 2007 23:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Making an ambush seems simple: hide some mercs, make some noise and pop up to shoot em all by surprise. Trouble only begins when they don't show up and u have to go looking for them. That usually cost blod. But in this mode, they game is running in realtime and I thought: why not make formations, so u can choose to move your whole team by formation type: cover, open or... Cover formation would then be best in areas with walls to go by, and each merc would then stay close to walls and their team mates; while open formation would suit best in open terrain.. suggestions??

Another thing is permitted Saves. Fx. Hitman runs with only 3 saves permitted per mission in harder difficulty. The novice type will typical reload over and over again because of bad strategy and still finish to kill the queen because of quick saves and reloads. Had their been a max. of .. perhaps 20 saves to finish the entire game in novice, the noob would never had made it. U can actually also see strategy guides or walkthroughs who embrace the quick save and reload althrough the game! What's that got to do with strategy? One say he can take several cities from the beginning with just two guys that way. Perhaps there is a fault in Iron Man mode, cause at the sector with the horny farmer, u can actually save the game everytime, it runs in realtime through u are fighting. Of course it's better to kill those peasants to get even more weapons than his little shed holds. And when they are all dead, u also get the chance to punch down all the cows and level up your custom character.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #147495] Sat, 30 June 2007 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Another thing about saves: since the game often crashed, it would be a nice feature to automaticly save progress. Civilization do it for every turn. But since this one runs in realtime, it should do better. Profiles are also a very nice feature especially when playing on internet-cafes, cause there many people use the same computers, and u can't expect your saves to remain without a profile for each player. I heard linux never crash, if it were that simple, automaticly saving would never apply, but why not make it anyway.

Some times it do appear odd, when an enemy pops up rather near in the night, where u certainly didn't expect any one in the flat road with lights around. In actiongame like counterstrike, u had to be hit by flashbang not to be able to see what apparently appears infront shooting at u. Had ja2 been 3D it must have been a very weird fog clouding that road, like in the Homeworld universe where enemies pops out of nowhere. I guess "moving" should make the big difference especially on longer distances.

Jagged Alliance 2 was the first to present adventure, realtime, turn-based and a story together. What if the next story is to happen in the old west with indians to scout and track and soldiers with better equipment, there had to be something else than the laptop system. Or what if it was in a big city with police detectives to investigate a murder and u had to hire investigator with other attributes than mechanical. I think a new multiplayer version should be a platform able to run different stories.

Health and Medical is much like Status and Mechanical. With medical u repair health and with mechanical u repair status. I was surprised, when I discovered that one's mercs could regenerate completely again and the enemies don't: cause if u wound a lot and leave the sector to come back, they will bleed to death. So I guess if u actually see your mercs arm or ear blown off, there had to be a regeneration machine and a story taking place in the future. In Battlestations: Midway there is one mission where the enemycarrier launch limitless amounts of aircraft while yours can only launch a restricted amount. In Jagged Alliance 2 something similar is all the militia and countryenemies. At first I also thought it was just about to make the attacks in sectors, when the enemy was looking elsewhere, but the were soldiers everywhere and always limited nomatter how much the queen threatened about seending more. U also had good time to train militia even if country enemies surrounding the towns and quiet outnumbered your militia.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #148360] Fri, 06 July 2007 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
It could have been a good joke also, if a merc shit in his pants and need to use one of the many toilets to get clean again in order to function properly. There could also have been clothes in different sizes. There should then also had been some more commands like: give a merc a collect duty to bring every found usable item in the whole town to a specified place; or to dress up and reload suitable with available equipment. There should definitely also have been one more command: to order a merc to rapport about all visitors in a towns explored locations: fx. if u have visited a certain bar and need to know if a terrorist or someone new appear there, u should be able to set a merc to travel and rapport...

A merc with a high attribute or skill in something fx. should also be able to say, which items that combine or what use they can have, when an item is found related to this mercs' field. In the present ja2 game u need to check internet guides to see explanations of items' use and that sucks.

I definitely also think there should be a score table for a new multiplayer version. With the same dificulty settings it would then be most objectives completed in the shortest amount of days.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #150665] Wed, 25 July 2007 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Is it possible to convert code into php or asp?
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #152129] Tue, 07 August 2007 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LuckyCarbon
Messages:4
Registered:June 2007
Location: WI
I've got a pre-Alpha, an Alpha to an Alpha build ( seriously, it has bugs, missing a lot of features, the art ranges from suck to barely adequate, only a test map, no strategic screens, no polish, etc) of my new Flash based Jagged Alliance inspired game.

I'm sure it will require the latest version of Flash.

It's working title is "The Dog Company", just something to call it at this point.

Anyway, you're welcome to check it out at http://www.luckycarbon.com/ (my personal domain) I'll register another domain once I've decided what to call it.

At this point I'd estimate I'm at about 150 hours worth of work with 1000s of hours left to go. The swf file is about 250KB right now, I hope to keep it under 1MB by the time I'm done, no idea if that's realistic or not though.

Anyway, if you like it, hate it, are from Strategy First and are considering suing me, questions on what my plans are or how I'm doing things, whatever, your feedback is welcome.

If you're an interested artist (vector or raster), map designer, a Poser master or just interested in seeing how you could contribute please drop me an email.

My email should be in my profile and I'll check back here as time permits.

If there's a lot of interest I would consider trying to publish daily to weekly updates of the build
and updating a .plan ( or a blog as the kids call it ) of what aspect has my focus.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #152220] Wed, 08 August 2007 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@LuckyCarbon: Cool nice JA2 Remake Wink So porting JA2 to Flash is one step closer!
I like what you did so far.

Roman


Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167107] Sun, 09 December 2007 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
What tool would you use to program jagged alliance 2 as a massive multiplayer online game?

fx.
asp tools: http://www.asp.net/downloads/essential/
project tools: http://sourceforge.net/search/?words=engine&type_of_search=soft&pmode=0&words=engine+web
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167179] Mon, 10 December 2007 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackal von

 
Messages:13
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland
I've thought that it would be nice to create a remake of JA2. The old C code is very much spaghetti-like, so a complete rewrite would be necessary. How I would do it, is to reuse all the old resources (graphics, maps, sounds, weapons, items) and write a completely new game engine while trying to stay faithful to the old one (for example use an off-the-shelf 3D physics engine). This would make it possible to expand the game (for example allow buildings with many floors) while keeping the feel of the original game. At first the game would be multiplayer only, but if time permits, also the original single player story could be added (it will take a while to reverse engineer the story).

One big question is the license issues. Maybe it would be possible to create a client-server game where the server must have the original game. The game must be free, because commercial use of the game's resources will not be possible. I'm not sure that would it be possible to publish the source code under a different license than JA2's code (for example GPL) because it's written from a scratch and not copied directly from JA2.

A different name than Jagged Alliance would need to be used. I've thought that "Jabbed Allies" would be a nice alteration.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167197] Mon, 10 December 2007 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
I have looked through lots of free tools, and Arianne is probably one of the best at http://sourceforge.net for realtime/turn-based games developments, but when u try it out, there is a list of things you must download and connect just to get the interface running...

so is asp, php or java best? People here have already pointed to java (/flash)!

Software Development Kit + Interface: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html

(Anyway: I think the best free asp software comes from microsoft, and for php I found this http://www.download.com/PHP-Designer-2007-Personal/3000-7957_4-10592128.html?tag=lst-1 but I'm not sure whether it can compile also.)

1. (Writers.) I am not thinking about just a remake of the old ja2 game; I like many other people have lots of spare time to waste. And one fun thing could be to create new game stories like, many movies that are based on a novel: Pick a novel, start creating the maps, items and characters to play with...

2. Developers had to create tools for that, setup and maintain the game server (earning some money also).

3. Players would have fun with the stories, solving quests/how things work, finding treasures and meeting people online. Treasure could also be real money from sponsors or members.

Runescape does not involve exciting stories, though there are quests. And the only way to make money is perhaps by finding items to sell over ebay. But runescape does not have characters with skills that make them better capable of finding items fx...

The writer of a game could decide whether it is to be single- or multiplayer. But as multiplayer I find it important, that any challenge maximum involves 4 people for maximum 15 minutes (like a chessplay). Most people have no problem with 15 minutes: doing a match, investigation or whatever. But for longer periods it's my experience with Guildwars (a. 500 hours), that among 8 players some will most likely abandon a mission. Especially if graphics load slow and the others are already begun...
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167198] Mon, 10 December 2007 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
ORFJackal
... How I would do it, is to reuse all the old resources (graphics, maps, sounds, weapons, items) and write a completely new game engine while trying to stay faithful to the old one (for example use an off-the-shelf 3D physics engine). This would make it possible to expand the game (for example allow buildings with many floors) while keeping the feel of the original game. At first the game would be multiplayer only...


The problem is how to challenge more players! I played ja2 from start many times and for many hours, you can't do that in multiplayer on one team only! And you can probably neither control more than one character in multiplayer, since others would have to wait too long for your turn to end then.

ORFJackal
... One big question is the license issues. Maybe it would be possible to create a client-server game where the server must have the original game. The game must be free, because commercial use of the game's resources will not be possible. I'm not sure that would it be possible to publish the source code under a different license than JA2's code (for example GPL) because it's written from a scratch and not copied directly from JA2.

A different name than Jagged Alliance would need to be used. I've thought that "Jabbed Allies" would be a nice alteration.


I have run a website on several free webservers and u just can't trust them. So you have to pay for something reliable and make some money for it then. But are there no one in the old alliance from strategy first interested in that?

New names are easy: Name it after the title of the story it's based on...
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167203] Mon, 10 December 2007 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackal von

 
Messages:13
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland
Butcher
so is asp, php or java best? People here have already pointed to java (/flash)!

ASP and PHP are meant for web based systems and they would not be suitable for making a game (except HTML+JavaScript based games, but a JA2 clone would not be such). I vote for Java because it is a modern OOP language with good library and tool support (and because I have 6+ years experience about it). Java has a good variety of libraries for handling a game's graphics (mainly OpenGL-based), sound, input, networking etc. (I suppose C# would also be OK, but I have no experience about it and I don't know how good gaming library support it has.) Flash is a pain to develop on and slow (no hardware acceleration). C++ and C are too low level, unproductive and error prone. Python, Ruby and other modern script languages are nice but lacking in library and tool support, I think. However, such a script language might be useful for in-game scripting (AI, map specific events) and Java has good bindings to some languages such as Groovy.

Butcher
I have looked through lots of free tools, and Arianne is probably one of the best at http://sourceforge.net for realtime/turn-based games developments

It's often better to build a custom engine from scratch. I don't know about Arianne, but the limitations of many game maker frameworks are a problem when making a complicated game, even though in the beginning they might make it easy to get something running.

Butcher
The problem is how to challenge more players! I played ja2 from start many times and for many hours, you can't do that in multiplayer on one team only! And you can probably neither control more than one character in multiplayer, since others would have to wait too long for your turn to end then.

True, true. There are many possibilities and it will require lots of experimentation to get a successful multiplayer mode. One turn-based multiplayer game I know is Bang! Howdy (made with Java, btw) - it might be possible to get some ideas from it. Some sort of MMORPG might also be possible, although very hard to make.

Butcher
I have run a website on several free webservers and u just can't trust them.

That's why I usually run things on my home server and when it's not enough, pay for a server host.

To be able to get money from the game, it would be necessary to recreate all the graphics and sounds yourself, so that you would have their copyrights. Or then pay license fees or make a deal with Strategy First or whoever owns the rights to JA2 now.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167246] Tue, 11 December 2007 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
I don't have creditcard, but I could pay from a moneybookers.com account, since any punk without an id-card can put real money on one of their accounts in a local bank and then spend them on internet.

If people - hired or voluntarily - (and I don't have anything else to do) should be able to add voices, music, dialogs, objectdesigns to a project, the tools to build with should be online accessable in a webbrowser too like the game. I neither have my own computer, I use libraries etc. and not all have administrator rights to install something. Plus online stuff is more protected against copies, hacking...
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167251] Tue, 11 December 2007 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
ORFJackal
... it will require lots of experimentation to get a successful multiplayer mode. One turn-based multiplayer game I know is Bang! Howdy (made with Java, btw) - it might be possible to get some ideas from it.
Bang! Howdy is very fast strategy, but there's not any story in it. It's just the same over again, and u can pay to level up.

In Jagged Alliance Online Multiplayer Version perhaps you could just be a countryman (designed through questions and so on), when the queen takes over Arulco and begins killing. You then walk around in town and find out, that you need something (cash, clothes, medicin for your mother, weapons...). So you enter your laptop to talk wih other players (you don't see them in the streets like in runescape/wow/guildwars..) and decide to form a rebel team with certain others for the purpose of fx. breaking into the hospital. You then contract with the team, so if anyone abandon the active mission, they get penalty of somekind and somehow it's not so disappointing (like when they just disappear in other multiplayer games).

You know the music is still very important for the atmosphere...

Okay after the robbery the queen sends troops and since you are very new to this, those without an alibi get arrested... so now you have to free them to continue...

Perhaps it doesn't matter wo kills the queen, as long as people are wasting time, having fun, solving quests...`
What if it takes 50 players - some with certain skills - to successfully kill the queen? 20 people try and fail...
What if it takes a certain skill to build a nessecary tool to do something in the game..


In Guildwars the developed the game by creating characters with other skills and new maps. Somehow there was nothing new to it, cause the skills was just named different, and the new maps was just diferent graphics. No new levels. And it all became less comprehensible. Fx. if u live in Arulco, is it fun just to travel further to experience something "new"?
A new story does not have to happen anoher place, only in another time...
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167312] Wed, 12 December 2007 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackal von

 
Messages:13
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland
Butcher
In Jagged Alliance Online Multiplayer Version perhaps you could just be a countryman (designed through questions and so on), when the queen takes over Arulco and begins killing. You then walk around in town and find out, that you need something (cash, clothes, medicin for your mother, weapons...).

Excellent idea! That is a good starting point for a MMORPG. Next we'll need to get lots of ideas about what kind of quests the players will be doing and how the interaction between players will work. A good balance needs to be kept so that the player has all the time a feeling of going forward, and on the other hand the player must not level up too quickly or run out of quests. The game must support players with different amounts of experience and dedication in the same world; somebody just started the game and plays a couple of times a week - another one has played it every day since the beginning. The game must be easy to get started with and not too intimidating to newcomers, while at the same time keeping the interest of longtimers and creating a strong community.

Should the game world run indefinitely, or should there be a restart every couple of months - for example when some manage to take out the queen? Should the game run 24/7? How to keep balance between players with different experience levels?

I used to play Planetarion (during rounds 3-5) in which the game runs 24/7 (1 hour ticks) and the world is restarted every few months. The problems (somebody could call them also strengths) of that game are that it requires too much dedication and time from real life, the gap between casual players and the best players becomes quickly too wide, and players have no hope of success if they are not in a strong alliance.

I've also played a little Shattered Galaxy during its beta testing period. I think it has some cool ideas which could be adapted to other MMO games. It is a MMORTS game where each player controls a small squad of units, and is part of a larger team. In one planet there are maybe 2-4 teams fighting over the control of the planet's sectors. When there is a fight in one sector, there can be tens of players from each side on the same map. The team that wins takes control over that sector and expands its control over the planet. There are also RPG elements in that the players and their units level up and get better equipments.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167352] Wed, 12 December 2007 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
ORFJackal
we'll need to get lots of ideas about what kind of quests the players will be doing and how the interaction between players will work. A good balance needs to be kept so that the player has all the time a feeling of going forward, and on the other hand the player must not level up too quickly or run out of quests. The game must support players with different amounts of experience and dedication in the same world; somebody just started the game and plays a couple of times a week - another one has played it every day since the beginning. The game must be easy to get started with and not too intimidating to newcomers, while at the same time keeping the interest of longtimers and creating a strong community.
In ja2 I often restarted the game: you know some people are just perfectionists, and when I saw a long road to finally killing the queen and thought "this could have been better, and it's going bad..." I restarted, tried a new configuration and other characters - to see if they were better and fun too. I guess, if one experience a long road with nothing on it, there's no need to continue; but if the end is visible and the game crashes, you want to restart because the end was near and you had the opportunity to save your progress, had you remembered only.
Perhaps you could let people into the game in hundreds, fx. if u know it take minimum 50 players to take over some vital sectors and overrun the kingdom, let 500 into a world. If more than 450 then dies or go inactive, let the queen win, exploit the last active players as rebels, so they would have to restart in a new world.
You could also try to figure out, if two players are relatively close (plays from same location), then imprison one of them and do some funny torture, so the other one has to get help!!
If the story is a remake of ja2, there can be quests but no guidelines about how to. (People will create walkthroughs on internet, so I think randomness is a good thing) It's also important with females trying to be men in the game as you see on the frontpicture:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s53/sonnemondsternewmc/ja2_aim_jpg.jpg
In ja2 you could spend an hour taking over a sector, you can't expect people in multiplay to cooperate that long. Perhaps that's a good thing to play on also if you plan people in teams of 4, that 8-12 have to take over a factory while others in other sectors do something else to make it all work, some who success will get excited over, another team in another failed, and whose fault is that???
And why not make another surprise like: "they kill the queen!" ok, but if the rebels have no new leader ready, another evil one comes along and imprison the rebels and kill many... To find the new leader, they must know the history - who is entitled to it!
As fun also usually when you order your unit to shoot another rebel, it will deny, unless it's a real maniac...
People will try to figure out, what the best is? Is it killing the queen, a multiplayer score, a reward of some sort (money,new game story), best equipment, funny quests, finding the solution before others... In ja2 it was possible to kill the queen before solving ALL quests, and that makes you consider what the ultimate goal then really is!
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167355] Wed, 12 December 2007 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
ORFJackal
Should the game world run indefinitely, or should there be a restart every couple of months - for example when some manage to take out the queen? Should the game run 24/7? How to keep balance between players with different experience levels?
If some one has a story about Arulco after the queen's death, perhaps players could keep their character. But if their character die and they want to restart, it has to be a new character also.
Maybe it's an idea to log people's time online to place the right ones together? I know from Guildwars, that when you first enter the PvP halls to fight as toplevel, the experienced ones go on international server and form teams - earning reputation simply by killing noob teams. And u don't want to play missions or battles with noobs who simply don't cooperate.
Big problem with multiplayer is planning, finding the right people and screwing things up anyway. So maybe multiplayer is a bad idea? But making ja2 online is not.

I think multiplayer is most fun when you are all sitting in the same room, either on x-box with a big screen or on internet-cafe on each computer. Hundreds of noobs and maniacs out of sight are not, it just don't work. So I guess: Max 4 multiplayers for a successful multiplayer version of the game!

In multiplayer turn-based mode it's probably also important, that all are capable of planning their merc/unit's actions contemporary and that all are carried out contemporary on [End Turn].
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167497] Thu, 13 December 2007 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Plenty of x-box games only allow 2 players in multiplay and I think that would be 4 times better than 4 players.

If a plan is nessecary to make a robbery or something and u can't come up with any (perhaps because of randomness) u could let the player meet a guy, whose got a plan...

Does any one know any tools accessable online to develop java or to create a virtual city with? It's easier on one server, than when every one have to develop on their own and upload to the server....
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167518] Thu, 13 December 2007 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackal von

 
Messages:13
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland
Butcher
Does any one know any tools accessable online to develop java or to create a virtual city with? It's easier on one server, than when every one have to develop on their own and upload to the server....

What do you mean by "virtual city"?

To develop on Java, typically you will need the Java compiler (latest JDK and its documentation), an IDE (most popular/best ones are IntelliJ IDEA, NetBeans and Eclipse) and a version control server (usually Subversion or CVS). Also a continuous integration server (for example TeamCity, now also for free) is useful. Nowadays Maven is often used for building Java projects (Ant is still widely used, but Maven is surpassing it).

If you need a version control server and a web site for a project, there are places such as Google Code and SourceForge where you can host open source projects. Otherwise you'll need to set them up on your own server.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167585] Fri, 14 December 2007 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
Arulco in ja2 was a virtual city. One could also get surprised by the big virtual cities fx. Crackdown and other games for x-box, but even if Crackdown was very detailed graphic, u could finish the game in a couple of weeks, and I didn't care to do it twice, cause there was nothing random or other goal to it.

But if u got one or more persons adding voices or graphic to characters or objects, can't they enter the same server and do it online? If u were running the server: u could just setup the tasks to be done, and one person could do a task from a menu online from a library computer...

Civilization IV has an interface before game start, where u select map type, leader benefits, goals .. , that's a bit like a tool to write a game with. It just had to be online and much more advanced, so a writer could make a new game according to a novel, a book.

I have used basic, pascal, prolog, simple java for simple programs. But I don't have my own computer, I live on the street and use computers on libraries etc., so it's difficult to install java SDK everytime I sit by a new pc. So maybe more people could contribute programming, designing .. if the tools were accessable online.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167597] Fri, 14 December 2007 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackal von

 
Messages:13
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland
Butcher
But I don't have my own computer, I live on the street and use computers on libraries etc., so it's difficult to install java SDK everytime I sit by a new pc. So maybe more people could contribute programming, designing .. if the tools were accessable online.

Your situation is quite unusual. Most development tools are designed for people who have their own computer. In your case it might be possible to have a large USB memory stick and keep all the program installations and source code there. With a little bit of effort it should be possible to work like that using library computers.
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #167605] Fri, 14 December 2007 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snbr1537

 
Messages:21
Registered:April 2007
ORFJackal
In your case it might be possible to have a large USB memory stick and keep all the program installations and source code there.
I will try that.

Perhaps it would help if one through some questions got some of the player's beliefs. If the guy is the religious, and the enemy is shouting blasphemous stuff. Me fx. I'm anarchist because of police brutality. I would of course enjoy killing authorities or dream about it... I'm also on the matrix idea... (from the movie)

Some children playing the game would maybe find it funny, if the enemy is shouting about his mommy and bedtime...

See also this discussion about beliefs: http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=167602&Main=10760#Post167602
Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #310728] Fri, 28 September 2012 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
flagged13
Messages:1
Registered:September 2012
Jagged Alliance Online is a turn-based tactical game. It is free and playable in the browser. I saw my bro was playing a browser game Time World. It seems that he can play with other players in the same galaxy and fight other galaxies. Although this looks exciting, but I am not interested in space game.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 October 2012 11:39] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance as online flash/java game?[message #310729] Fri, 28 September 2012 13:06 Go to previous message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Can't tell if clever spambot or just can't read post dates.


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