| Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #136761]
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Tue, 24 April 2007 19:24 
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 trinsic |
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Messages:5
Registered:March 2002
Location: Cali |
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Ok so its day3 and i didn't have enough time to train militia. so I get attacked by the enemy. I have 2 mercs my guy and Ira... for a total of 4 guys
I figured no problem im pretty good at this game, well I don't get it, the battle information said 15 enemies were detected in the sector. 4hrs later, im battling off like 40 guys!! im not sure if they are coming in in waves or what.. but it seems like im getting shafted here, I couldn't hold of that many and finally they worked me... 
Ohh I like the fact that the AI now attacks snipers by swarming them and then having guys climb up on the roof. I don't think they used to do that..
[Updated on: Tue, 24 April 2007 19:26] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #136764]
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Tue, 24 April 2007 19:58 
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| Tiger |
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Messages:16
Registered:December 2006 |
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Somehow, I feel this topic should be made sticky because the question about the mass attack is repeated too often.
I've played with the Drassen Event in my current game but disallowed the reinforcements. I've set the GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS to 12 but somehow the three huge enemy groups left, right, and below the mine attacked only every two days. That was not really agressive what I've expected from the Insane diff.
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Private
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #136865]
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Wed, 25 April 2007 23:28
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| DudeWheresMyTank |
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Messages:51
Registered:August 2006
Location: Canada |
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by planning defensive positions, preparing reinforcement militia, procuring the necessary equipment and supplies, exploiting stupid AI behaviors. i've fought off a 127 man invasion with my 6 mercs and about 30 dead militia. i saved up to buy an hk21 for my IMP and lots of ammo before i took the mine. everyone else had mini-14s.
it helps if you go to san mona first with a minimum crew to gather some cash. hire some mercs for 1 day to fend off the attack. alt-lmb selling really helps if you attack a couple of patrols to earn cash (and equipment
[Updated on: Wed, 25 April 2007 23:30] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #137183]
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Mon, 30 April 2007 06:17
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| Drakshin |
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Messages:5
Registered:April 2007
Location: Lisbon, Portugal |
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I managed to fend it off, i died like 4 times and kept reloading the save game in the beggining of the sector, until i found a decent solution  , my fending off:
ONE sniper on the bathroom roof
ONE guy with (and yes i've edited the P90 in order to make it possible to hold 2 cause it's one of my fav guns and i love it duel wielded) 2xFN P90, silenced, AET from BR (if you have BR set to sell those things) inside the bathrooms.
TWO people in the house left of the bathrooms (the one just northeast of the church), one on the roof with a silent mid range rifle or sniper. and the one below (again with silent P90s OR HK MP7).
One support Assault rifle / Light MG on the northwest of that house.
And hope that they attack at night
(i only attack sectors at night and i always hope i only get attacked at night, half of my team is has stealth or camo or night ops)
Now, the sniper and the northeast of the church silent rifle guys, those 2 are the spotters
All rest just waste all APs doing max full auto on them. sniper and SR just do one or 2 shots per turn. usually they still come in waves, south and east more frequently, usually the biggest is south, in that drassen mine, i managed to kill 6 people from a FNP90 auto , like 30 tiles away out of range, the guy was not even seeing any of the enemies (there were 14 of them near eachother, i also killed 2 guys with one single sniper shot, double headshot from the roof, one was crouching the other was standing)
Now the enemies they will run for the noise (sniper and support AR/mg) but they'll get pinned down by heavy silent SMG fire that they can't find, hehe, there were more tiles with bodies in that area south east of the church, then tiles without em.
Anyways 2 of my mercs got in trouble, they went past the sniper from behind him and charged on the AR support, got her down to 25 hp. oh well, good thing all mercs are not that far and can run to the others in one or 2 turns .
[Updated on: Mon, 30 April 2007 06:19] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #137408]
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Wed, 02 May 2007 19:08
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| Crazybite |
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Messages:32
Registered:January 2007
Location: Netherlands |
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Yeah we all love to hear how to fend off that many troops...
I always try this huge attack with 6 mercs..
First of: Don't get spotted immediatly! Otherwise the enemy can start a full turn and with that many enemies in vieuw you wouldn't like that! On one occaision I lost 4 mercs in one turn that way. (I was still preparing..) E.G. don't put any mercs on the roof exept for the toilet in the middle of the map. Stay hidden there with at least two mercs, and a sniper rifle.
Put a merc or two in the bar and "dentists" office like ChrisL says. Wait there and stay out of sight.
I used two mercs to lure enemies past the bar and dentists to get them in vieuw of my snipers. Pick two off every turn. the merc "luring" the enemy should stay close to cover... get on and off buildings etc...
If you can't succeed then try to hire more mercs to put in the bar and dentist office to get more kills quickly.
If you want to go crazy you could always buy some mortar launchers with enough ammo and pound the edges of the map...
Have fun!
[Updated on: Wed, 02 May 2007 19:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #137646]
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Fri, 04 May 2007 19:13
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| gmonk |
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Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada |
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I haven't played the Drassen battle in a couple of months. The first time I played through it I *hated* it! After cussing and fussing a bit I figured out a strategy that seemed to work although it doesn't make you feel very heroic. It does, however, seem at least little realistic.
Stick close to the edges of the map near the middle sector of Drassen and wait for the attack. If it's daytime when the enemy attacks pull back to the next sector and wait for nightfall and move in a small squad, kill a few enemy and then pull back out when you encounter heavy resistance. Rinse and repeat.
Some might say that this is like cheating in that you shouldn't know that you're about to have your a$$ handed to you, but I figure you should be expecting a big attack when you take the first mine. Playing it safe and choosing your battles is the prerogative of a small mobile force.
Like I said, not very heroic feeling, but probably what a small mercenary force would have to expect when faced with an army. I also grabbed weapons during the skirmishes to improve my chances during subsequent raids.
It's a PitA to play out but, man, do I ever feel satisfied when the last few enemies are dropped. And the loot is SPECTACULAR!!
Kaiden's said that he's set this option to default to 'off' in the SVN ini files. I'll be turning it on even though I hated it at first. The sense of satisfaction when a plan works and the buttload of good gear you get from the battle drops is worth the aggravation.
cheers,
gpmg
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First Sergeant
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #137820]
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Sun, 06 May 2007 21:19
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| yeesh |
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Messages:5
Registered:August 2000 |
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I've taken a long JA2 break, but I hope to come back to it this summer and experience 1.13. I've followed the progress of the new version for quite a while, so I'm not wholly uninformed, and I am eager.
But I'd still like to chime in with: this topic highlights the dual (at least) nature of JA2, and the corresponding split in the weight that fans give to its CRPG side, and its tactical simulation side. I wouldn't try to generalize, as I think folks represent a wide spectrum and there's an infinite number of positions along the spectrum, but I'll explain why this attack (which I read is both switchable and now off by default, so understand this is no complaint) is so puzzling to those of us who enjoy the CRPG aspect just as much as the tactical.
The CRPG bliss of JA2 comes from slowly developing your team, increasing stats relentlessly, both of combat and of support roles, and of course constantly, incrementally upgrading the equipment of your teams. It's christmas, really, there's nothing out there like it, which is why I keep coming back. And then in the combat, you get to actually use this battle-hardened team to apply all these abilities and gear that you've developed and enhanced over so many fights, it's oh so satisfying. Seriously, christmas.
Anywho, so when the answer to how could you possibly defeat the Drassen counter attack is, Well it's tricky, but you take 6 good mercs with some of the best equipment in the game, and do X and Y... That's a very unsatisfying way to begin the game for someone who appreciates the CRPG build-your-team-and-equipment-over-the-long-haul aspect of JA2. OTOH, it's a perfectly satisfying answer for someone who sees that building up part as window dressing and much more appreciates the challenge of the hard-fought tactical battles.
There's no right or wrong here, JA2 is a fantastic hybrid game that appeals to fans of both halves of its nature. And I think all fans enjoy both those halves, with each person's personal ratio of enjoyment being unique. AND 1.13 is so wonderfully customizable that everyone can tweak it to his taste. But I just wanted to emphasize why for some, the game just doesn't work if you start off with all the goodies, EVEN IF it's still a ball-breaker of a challenge. Because slowly getting the goodies is such a vast part of the fun.
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Private
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #138195]
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Wed, 09 May 2007 16:00
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| Misteret |
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Messages:31
Registered:July 2005 |
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from a realistic point of view, it would make sense deidriana having large amounts of forces to throw at you the first time you have a known location (and the first time you put a dent in her daily income), rather than waiting for you to capture half of arulco before she starts to get serious.
From a gameplay point of view, that sort of learning curve would be a complete no-no, as its such an insane jump from the battles for drassen, and also the fact that imo, the difficulty doesn't get back up there until you try to take meduna.
What i'd say, with my zero knowledge of coding, would be to convert it into a menu option, "The Drassen mine counterattack ON/OFF", and default it to off, which would give people the choice, and stop threads on the drassen mine attack coming up again and again.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #138281]
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Thu, 10 May 2007 14:12
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| doompatrol |
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Messages:1
Registered:May 2007 |
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oh man, i had no idea there was even a setting for this. i just d/led 1.13 yesterday and pulled a WTF when being attacked by that gigantic force in Drassen. the second time around i planned it by ordering an MG43 and a couple of calico rifles for my troops, then hiding on/in the mining commission building.
my militia got slaughtered but i finally managed to make it through the encounter using the cheap tactics. halfway through, my main IMP guy ran out and stole a bunch of rifles/SMGs for my other 5 mercs to use. good times.
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Civilian
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #142036]
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Thu, 31 May 2007 19:16
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| Muttonchop |
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Messages:1
Registered:May 2007 |
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I've played through pre v1.13 god knows how many times and I was not quite prepared for the sheer bloodbath that followed taking the drassen mine section with the patch. I set up my standard night-time-everyone-in-cover sorta thing trying to take them down one by one, but the enemy kept comming! Eventually it came down to a final showdown in the church where I had to flee for cover. All I know is automatic fire (and lots of it) and energy boost saved my poor mercs (who did not die but were shot to hell), 'course my 20 green milita were toast but you can always train more.... I really think the massive counter attack should be left in.
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Civilian
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #142912]
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Mon, 04 June 2007 20:11
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| Solid |
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Messages:1
Registered:September 2005
Location: Sweden |
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Someone said that he got money by Alt-Clicking on stuff. I've tried that, but all I get is that the item disappears, and I get nothing. Only way I can sell stuff is buy bringing it to Tony.
Now I don't like this battle. People in this thread talk about buying sniper rifles and stuff, some even mod in dual silenced P90's etc. But I don't have my Bobby Rays on Awesome, I have it on Great (or whatever the 2nd lowest setting is). I don't want to be able to buy the best stuff from day 1. I want a kinda-slow progress build up.
Drassen is supposed to be your first source of income, and the counter attack removes that. It feels impossible to take it and hold it. I hired Raven for a week, and Raider for a day, and Buns for a day. Since I attacked at night, Raider left me before I got money from the mine to pay him again. I was able to pay Buns because I got back his medical deposit. I got Raiders gear on my IMP char though so its all pretty good.
But the attack comes before I even have any militia up, and they just keep comming, in broad daylight. My IMP is a nightops expert and my guys have pistols. Raven has a sniper rifle but she is out of ammo. (There wasn't a single bullet available that I could purchase in Bobby Rays)
[Updated on: Mon, 04 June 2007 20:12] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Civilian
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| Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #145445]
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Tue, 19 June 2007 12:57
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| MikMan |
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Messages:22
Registered:May 2007
Location: Finland, Suomi |
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This battle got me surprised too. I had got comfortable with the idea of invading drassen being a peace-of-cake from vanilla, but fighting just the first wave of 45 troops against my unprepared 4 mercs was like fighting godzilla with a slingshot..
and I tought I was good at this game!
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Private 1st Class
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