Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249868] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
what is not an exploit is do some recon before you talk to him - you are there with too less money to gin guns ablazing
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249869] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
Ok you wont have enaugh money to maintain your mercs if you decide to do a recon or your mercs would be so cheap and weak that you want be able to play without saves

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:17] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249870] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
why - sell the loot to tony
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249871] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
what tony? Is it the only way to survive? This is not ok for standard difficulty to have only this option to survive. Just sell it with alt + LMB

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:21] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249872] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
the arms-dealer in san-mona (backroom of the porn-shop)
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249874] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
What San Mona? Miguel says go Dressen or we will die starving. It should be fine to follow such request on normal difficulty. His request is not ambiguous

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:24] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249876] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
if you don't talk to miguel - you don't know that, but you may stumble into tony during your recce

if i came to arulco i'd have a look before i talk to him and get under pressure - i'd like to know what's going on before i start freeing that country; especially if i'm paid a lousy 30,000 bucks in advance
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249877] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
And you will move to san Mona. What if you move to Drassen to scout it? It would mean the loss of the game. Your tricks could be fine for insane but for standard difficulty that is too much. In the beginning of the game quite any initial move should be winnable if you do your best. Exploiting on choosing the only winnable course (hiring only special mercs + paying mercs in a special way + creating personage in a special way + moving to special locations) is not ok for standard difficulty

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:36] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249878] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
i never played standard - i'm an expert, lol
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249879] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
Logisteric
i never played standard - i'm an expert, lol


If you choose the harder difficulty then you'll have to stick on even more linear way in the beginning of the game or to save regulary. This is not ok

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:39] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249880] Thu, 22 April 2010 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
you are not - in my recent game i spoke to tony miguel at day = 104

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 12:42] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249883] Thu, 22 April 2010 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
What ara the ways to play in the beginning witout saves?
Sticking on tony is the only way.

This is stupid. Your whole operation is based on selling of personal weapons of the enemys killed in combat to a person you dont know if he exist at all. Where have you seen such operations? And this is the only way to play your game. If you dont know about a trap in drassen then the game is unplayeble at all.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 13:54] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249884] Thu, 22 April 2010 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Villa

 
Messages:19
Registered:November 2009
I have disabled reinforcements for the Drassen counter attack by setting ALLOW_REINFORCEMENTS_ONLY_IN_CITIES to TRUE and I was hoping to see multiple smaller battles. My assumption was that the enemy groups from the adjacent sectors would still attack, just one at a time instead of one huge attack. However, I had only one attack and the other enemy groups seem to have forgotten their orders. They just wait in their sectors next to Drassen mine and it's almost as if they are trying to besiege me (which could be interesting but for that they would have to surround Drassen completely). Is there any chance they are going to attack me at some point or have they turned into immobile patrols?
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249885] Thu, 22 April 2010 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
they won't attack you - smoke them out
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249888] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
You know if counter atack on drassen consisted of 12 elites then it would be fine.
Also there is an option in ini which can allow you to have dressen like attacks. It is disable is assume because this attacks are overwhelming.
Just it was possible to reduce size if dressen attack 2-4 times and rando,ly enable it for other countries and it would be MUCH more fun to play.

I tried to find dressen counterattack script but failed. May be someone can figure out how to fix it?

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 14:35] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249889] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dansken

 
Messages:83
Registered:March 2007
Location: Norway
@KOKON

When faced with overwhelming opposition (such as the DCA), ask yourself: What would a sensible leader of a small mercenary band do?

Answer: Run away!

Then return later, under cover of night and pick them off one by one. Use guerrilla tactics.

To me, that seems as a perfectly valid solution that works well. Other, more foolhardy, commanders prefer to stand up to the DCA -- but as you have discovered yourself, that is a very difficult victory.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249890] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
>>Dansken

If you have 35000 in the beginning and play without saves you can not afford to move to dressen and then move away.

You can hire Ivan or Lynx for a week and no one else. Or you can buy more soldiers less then for 7 days.
For example you take drassen then meet overwhelming enemyit will take 3-4 days. Then you pull back. When the week ends you can not pay wages.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 14:40] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249891] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
it's easy - don't hire ivan ot lynx from the beginning
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249892] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
>> Logisteric

In such case the game bacomes linear. You should buy only some of few certain mercs as the guys with hands growing from their asses will lead to your loss if you play without saves. Then for example you move to drassen and then fall back. You loose morale. And you have to move to other place having very few money.

This is very hard for standard difficulty. Quite unplayeble i say. If you play without saves then you'll get only annoyence.

Have you played other games? I can win x-com without saves following standard cource and not exploiting. I can win x-com apocalypse without saves (even with a mod which will make the game harder).

Why do i have to stick to a linear start and exploit everywhere to have initial success in 1.13 with default ini and without saves? This is a real bullshit.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 14:53] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249893] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
>> Dansken
series of night attacks without saves with initial mercs is an absolute suicide for you

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 14:58] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249894] Thu, 22 April 2010 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
KOKON
>> Dansken
series of night attacks without saves with initial mercs is an absolute suicide for you


why - bad tactics?

why not hiring lynx for a day or two and grunty for two weeks
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249895] Thu, 22 April 2010 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
Logisteric
KOKON
>> Dansken
series of night attacks without saves with initial mercs is an absolute suicide for you


why - bad tactics?


I play with no saves absolutely (i dont replay combats if merc died etc). If something goes wrong at night then you definetly will loose some soldiers especialy if you have cheap ones.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 15:02] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249896] Thu, 22 April 2010 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
so what - you're fighting a war - some must go off
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249897] Thu, 22 April 2010 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
Logisteric
so what - you're fighting a war - some must go off


It is better to go to other towns then risk. Anyway current conditions are not ok as stndard.

Plz fix this shit. Can't you see it is a top thread about this mod.
Or at least plz tell me how to fix it myself (not just turn it off but change numbers or smth). I'm programmer so you can tell me an approximate solution.

You know DCA is an absolute shit.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 April 2010 15:28] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249898] Thu, 22 April 2010 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
yo may be a programmer, but i'm a maccie - you see i can't
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249906] Thu, 22 April 2010 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
KOKON
You know DCA is an absolute shit.


Just TURN IT OFF. End of story.

I am with you in that it ought not be turned on by default but you are obsessing about it.


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249907] Thu, 22 April 2010 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Villa
I have disabled reinforcements for the Drassen counter attack by setting ALLOW_REINFORCEMENTS_ONLY_IN_CITIES to TRUE and I was hoping to see multiple smaller battles. My assumption was that the enemy groups from the adjacent sectors would still attack, just one at a time instead of one huge attack. However, I had only one attack and the other enemy groups seem to have forgotten their orders. They just wait in their sectors next to Drassen mine and it's almost as if they are trying to besiege me (which could be interesting but for that they would have to surround Drassen completely). Is there any chance they are going to attack me at some point or have they turned into immobile patrols?


The way the counterattack works is there are multiple groups sent and all but one are sent as "helper" groups. If you turn off reinforcements they will never do anything as their entire purpose has been removed.


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249915] Thu, 22 April 2010 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
KOKON
You can not buy both Buzz and Raven with your initial 35000 and i dont talk about few more cheap mercs.

No you can't afford both if you pay for a week. But you can hire one for a day and the other for a week and still have money to spare for other mercs. Even more important was the distinction that I only choose one out of those two (Buzz or Raven) and supplement the rest of the team with IMP and 2-3 others. Sometimes I get Ira and do the Miguel quest first others I don't. The beauty of the game is you are not tied into a linear format of play.

KOKON
The only way is to avoid Drassen in the beginning of the game and it is a throwing away of the cource suggested by the game. I assume this is future prediction and exploit as Miguel says go find that prist or we will die starving. May be it would be ok for Insane difficulty but for standard that is bullshit. May be you can win drassen with specialy chosen mercs and specialy created personage of yourself but this is a future prediction and critinism.

Personally I think going for Drassen isn't the most wise route anyway. Except for the first game I ever played I don't normally choose to go to Drassen. I normally go to San Mona, then Chitzena, then to Drassen. It gives you an income (Chitzena mine and bar fights) and you gain something more than sticks and stones to hit the Airport with. It's also prudent when you think that it's an Airport and would normally be better defended.

KOKON
Play on standard difficulty with realism, normal Bobby ray assortiment and normal guns turned on with default ini with absolutely no saves and move to Drassen without moving around it or exploiting. Save whole replay post it on your tube. I give you 100$ if you win counterattack.

I have played on every difficulty. If you'll give me a $100 for beating the DCA without Save/Loading that's the easiest money I'll ever make. Though unfair as I would just go silent and kill everyone at night to get to Drassen, then while there setup a killzones around certain buildings. Easy win Smile

There are many tactics to use, even hiding in the bar, but I wouldn't resort to such lame tactics. I personally find the DCA one of the highlights of the game now Smile


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #249919] Thu, 22 April 2010 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3500
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Kaerar
I have played on every difficulty. If you'll give me a $100 for beating the DCA without Save/Loading that's the easiest money I'll ever make.


don't be afraid kokon - i'll do it for 50 :devilaugh:
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #250168] Sat, 24 April 2010 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KOKON

 
Messages:20
Registered:April 2010
Location: Moscow
I changed source code for DCA

made a lot of DCA params udjustable in .ini and made some other improvements

see this thread:
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=250272#Post250272

You can download a pre-official build of 1.13 exe + config from there.

[Updated on: Sun, 25 April 2010 14:34] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #250295] Sun, 25 April 2010 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tao

 
Messages:2245
Registered:August 2009
Location: The Known Universe
Nice work KOKON. Keep on doing your thing.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254193] Thu, 17 June 2010 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airbus
Messages:5
Registered:June 2010
Location: Russia, Moscow

If this topic is still not dead...

There was 60 perfect prepared enemies... Against three IMP's, Ira and ten green militia... The day promised to be joyful.
After 3 or 4 attempts to defend Drassen fairly, I sent useless militia away from my valiant mercenaries and refuge in city toilet in the middle of sector. There I found 4 washbasins and put mercs near them sitting.
Maybe somebody remember bug from original game when merc, sitting near washbasin, is visible only perpendicular to the wall by only sitting enemies, and sees similarly.
This, plus bug "Standing up with grenade" (which has perfectly worked with throwing knife in blood from Omerta), reversed the situation in my favor.
There was 60 perfect prepared enemies... Two remained, but they couldn't get to the edge or map... =)
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254241] Fri, 18 June 2010 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
Hi Airbus, Welcome back!! Very Happy

Shooting through walls feels not like a real fight, you know, for real men... Very Happy


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254243] Fri, 18 June 2010 07:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airbus
Messages:5
Registered:June 2010
Location: Russia, Moscow

Hi Dieter! Very Happy

Yes, you are right, I don't like shooting through walls, too. I like open fight. Smile But, in other side, it's not just shooting through walls. It is... hiding like a mice from superior enemy unit. Four versus sixty...

And, who said about shooting through walls? After my first shot, enemies ran into toilet and began to look around searching for my mercs. Then most intelligent (or least intelligent Wink ) sat and tried to interrupt my "brave" soldiers. But 85 points of agility did their work. Smile After the first wave, I had to come out and call them back, via warning shot in the head of one of them. There were four waves, then I return to open fight versus 6 or 8 enemies. It felt more realistic to me. Smile

[Updated on: Fri, 18 June 2010 13:27] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254295] Sat, 19 June 2010 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P.Val

 
Messages:72
Registered:May 2010
When I first played the version where the counterattack was on, I didn't know about it. I knew I'll be attacked eventually (just like in vanilla) but the sheer number of enemies was a surprise. I barricaded myself on top of the mine building, (luckily it was night and I had a Thompson with a LOT of ammo), and managed to win (it was a long time ago, so i might have used one reload or two). Last time, it was going very bad and I had to retreat (when playing without savescumming I always try to maintain an escape route.), and then make smaller attacks, mostly at night, killing a few and retreating before the whole force is alerted. Don't do it too often or loyalty will suffer because of the many "lost" battles. Usually one or two weakening strikes followed by a night attack will do the job.
Actually, on Wildfire maps, it's much easier to defend the mine without retreating, there are very nice and defendable houses. With full suppression allowed and having a few cheap mercs with cheap SMGs with lots of ammo, it's easy to slow the attackers to a crawl so you have more turns to take aimed shots with your better mercs.

KOKON, is your $100 offer still available? Razz
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254501] Tue, 22 June 2010 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jinxed

 
Messages:245
Registered:October 2008
Location: Land of Skanks and Cottag...
I usually camp out on top of the ACA building on WF maps. I set remote bombs all over places and then just hope for the best. One time tho on ironman I ran out of ammo and had to steal weapons from enemies. That was really fun.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254615] Wed, 23 June 2010 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vodi
Messages:4
Registered:June 2010
btw, is this 60man wave a one-time assault?
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #254616] Wed, 23 June 2010 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tao

 
Messages:2245
Registered:August 2009
Location: The Known Universe
Space Viking compiled an option in the ini for assaults very similar to all locations of strategic importance.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #255438] Sun, 04 July 2010 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P.Val

 
Messages:72
Registered:May 2010
Jackpayback
btw, is this 60man wave a one-time assault?


Yes, it seems to be
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #255448] Sun, 04 July 2010 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sovereign

 
Messages:85
Registered:July 2010
Location: Jerusalem, Israel

First post Smile

I've found a tactic that is in the midway between the cheesy toilet tactic and an open ground last stand. The general idea is to set up kill zones in well-lit areas. I've done it last night by spreading mercs in a couple of buildings and keeping them away from the windows. The idea is taken from a real-life way of building a marksman/sniper nest inside a building, and it seems to work in JA2 as well. You place mercs 2-3 squares from the window, looking through it. You should pick buildings without lights - This makes it really hard for the enemy to spot you inside them (In real life it also soaks up some of the gunfire noise inside the room, not sure on the JA2 effect) and set up a pair of mercs per window, or one per window (This also means you need to try for buildings which do not have too many windows, or you'll get out-flanked and grenaded to heck). Do not set your mercs directly in front of the window, either.

Sometimes, due to enemy placement, you might need to demo your way into a building from the rear in order to avoid being spotted in the open, if you do it, blow the wall, then rush in ASAP before the enemy can react. If you're a bit lucky, though, you can avoid that by sneaking into a dimmed building.

It should look something like this (Pardon the use of '_', otherwise the spaces get ignored):
[merc]___[merc]
___\_______/

----[window]----

With six mercs you can cover a pair of buildings with four marksmen (In my case it was with three IMPs and Buns with three Mini-14s and one SKS I've picked up while taking Drassen the first time. Obviously, when the counter-attack came I immediately retreated to return and fight on my terms) and a pair of SMG equipped mercs to cover the doors from a charge (if it comes - if you shoot fast enough and drop everyone in sight, they'll have less of an idea where you are. In my case these two SMG guards were Igor and Dr. Q with a PPSh and a Tommy Gun).

If you do this right, once the firefight starts, the enemy will have little option but to come at you through the well lit open spaces and you can pick them off one by one. If you start getting swarmed, then let your SMG-toting mercs let loose with some massive spray-and-pray to suppress the enemy and keep them down (Large ammo capacity is a must, and a 15 round PPSh burst seems to have one hell of an effect on the charging enemies).

I think it is a very satisfying way to pull this fight off because it doesn't rely on completely abusing interrupts and buildings without windows. It is still hard, and there's a few hairy moments (especially when 5-6 elites charge you at once and you miss a few rifle rounds). I took quite a bit of lead in injuries, but still pulled it off.

I turned on the counter-attacks in other cities as well. Those fights are immensely fun.

[Updated on: Sun, 04 July 2010 09:54] by Moderator

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