Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #255450] Sun, 04 July 2010 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Or you can use a team of assaulters and snipers to defend a building.

Have 2 snipers with either MG's (H&K 21e is really good for this) or low-mid level sniper/DMR's (SL8, Mini-14 with scopes are good enough) and plenty of ammo for them. Stick them on the top of the building away from the edges and in crouch.
This gives you the option to hide by going prone as well as get people closer by standing up.

The other 2-4 assaulters patrol around the base of the building and act as spotters for the snipers. Having goggles of some kind as well as night ops is a must at night to get the drop on the enemy. All need to be equipped with fast firing guns with a fair amount of ammo as well as lots of grenades. Stealth is a good trait too as it makes them harder to spot. If you have camo use it too.

I personally used the mining building during daytime with this tactic and it was pretty easy to defend. Because you have long LoS from the top of that building nothing gets close. At night though I used the building directly NE of the toilets as it's the most defensible roof IMO. Shutting youself indoors makes you a target for grenades if they spot you Wink


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #257370] Sat, 24 July 2010 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johno

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2007
taoteching
Space Viking compiled an option in the ini for assaults very similar to all locations of strategic importance.


Does anyone know where i can find this? i loved the DCA

Edit: found it, it was NEW_AGGRESSIVE_AI under Strategic Enemy AI Settings

[Updated on: Sat, 24 July 2010 12:52] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259677] Tue, 17 August 2010 07:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MilBrat
Messages:1
Registered:August 2010
KOKON

This is stupid. Your whole operation is based on selling of personal weapons of the enemys killed in combat to a person you dont know if he exist at all. Where have you seen such operations?


Africa.

---

I find that if you tune the initial IMP settings for slightly better weapons and leave the bobby ray settings at a lower option, it eases the difficulty of the drassen battle significantly without affecting the game play or RPG feeling of the game much. It also is a little more realistic I think in a sense that an intelligent mercenary would not take on months long campaigns showing up on day one with nothing more than an MP5 and a few clips. If you add more valuable or powerful weapons though it can destroy any chance the enemy has of even closing within visual range of you for the first half of the game, and thats not fun anymore after the first time.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259711] Tue, 17 August 2010 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Luppolo

 
Messages:157
Registered:July 2009
SpaceViking
Villa
I have disabled reinforcements for the Drassen counter attack by setting ALLOW_REINFORCEMENTS_ONLY_IN_CITIES to TRUE and I was hoping to see multiple smaller battles. My assumption was that the enemy groups from the adjacent sectors would still attack, just one at a time instead of one huge attack. However, I had only one attack and the other enemy groups seem to have forgotten their orders. They just wait in their sectors next to Drassen mine and it's almost as if they are trying to besiege me (which could be interesting but for that they would have to surround Drassen completely). Is there any chance they are going to attack me at some point or have they turned into immobile patrols?


The way the counterattack works is there are multiple groups sent and all but one are sent as "helper" groups. If you turn off reinforcements they will never do anything as their entire purpose has been removed.


actually they eventually attack drassen mine on their own (20 days later in my current game)
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259723] Tue, 17 August 2010 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
This is probably effected by the INI setting REASSIGN_PENDING_REINFORCEMENTS. If set to TRUE, it will cancel orders for any group tasked with reinforcing the garrison or attack attempt.
Later, Queen can order these "idle" groups to attack anyway. This "later" depends on a number of difficulty-dependent INI settings, most notably:
BASE_DELAY_IN_MINUTES_BETWEEN_EVALUATIONS_(DIFFICULTY) together with corresponding EVALUATION_DELAY_VARIANCE_(DIFFICULTY),
GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS_AFTER_SECTOR_LIBERATION_(DIFFICULTY), and
GRACE_PERIOD_IN_DAYS_AFTER_PATROL_DESTROYED_(DIFFICULTY).

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I see it.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259757] Wed, 18 August 2010 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jetman123
Messages:1
Registered:August 2010
I never had a problem with it, then again I always use all six of my custom mercs as well as a bunch of others like Grunty, Fox, Barry, Grizzly - cheapish ones that are still relatively effective. You'll still be outnumbered, but if you aren't _grossly_ outnumbered you'll do fine.

Also, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOMEONE WITH HIGH LEADERSHIP. Not only does it help with surpression, it means you can actually train militia before Deidrianna counterattacks. AIM mercs with leadership are expensive, so get your custom merc a good leadership score.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259836] Thu, 19 August 2010 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raycrasher

 
Messages:59
Registered:August 2010
Location: Philippines
It is easier for me to pick off the enemy groups BEFORE they converge on Drassen Mine. They usually converge on D14 and D12 before attacking en masse, so with their forces divided it was easy. Especially at D14 - I just hold them off with gas grenades, lob a few HG85's into the crowd and snipe their heads off the water. I usually get a great load of guns and money off the Drassen attack Smile
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259840] Thu, 19 August 2010 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Luppolo

 
Messages:157
Registered:July 2009
so at day 2 you have already gases and nades to spam along with weapons able to "snipe" the enemy more than 10-12 tiles away?
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259841] Thu, 19 August 2010 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3499
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
booby rays to awesome and upping the money a "little" - let's say 2,000,000? :devilaugh:

then they play insane for some excitment
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259845] Thu, 19 August 2010 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raycrasher

 
Messages:59
Registered:August 2010
Location: Philippines
Luppolo
so at day 2 you have already gases and nades to spam along with weapons able to "snipe" the enemy more than 10-12 tiles away?


Take note that the Drassen counter-attack only occurs when you take ALL the Drassen sectors. I only take Drassen completely around Day 7, by that time I already have taken the mine, captured Cambria and have bought good equipment. I always leave a Drassen sector uncleared until I have better equipment.

Heck, I usually take Chitzena first before Drassen.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259877] Thu, 19 August 2010 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
And on your way to Chitzena and back you don't forget paying a visit to San Mona. Makes sense.
I do the same thing, actually. Drassen has the "one sideways" sector which you can simply omit going through the town for the mine. Then, all you need is just keeping it isolated so that enemy left there doesn't crawl up on you. In the meantime, all excess weapons and stuff gets hauled to San Mona and sold to raise bucks for better guns. I take the opportunity to visit the boxing ring (if it presents itself), and liberate Maria from the brothel to sell off Angel's shop to Kyle. All this leaves me with enough bucks to buy some good stuff. I then capture and consolidate Chitzena (usually I have Skyraider in Drassen so that when he tells me about SAM site there I go for it). Then I return for Drassen, clear the sector and brace for impending counterattack. Having repelled it, I do the second SAM, and then I have clear skies over a significant part of the country, which opens up a number of cities to attempt an attack there. Usually I go for Alma - once I have it, good weapons are standard issue all across the roster. Taking other cities is just a matter of time... and effort.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #259943] Fri, 20 August 2010 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raycrasher

 
Messages:59
Registered:August 2010
Location: Philippines
Exactly. And one more thing - I usually raid heavily-defended cities (Grumm) for their excellent equipment drops - my 6-person night ops IMP squad can usually drop them without their sending reinforcements.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #261382] Thu, 02 September 2010 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fenomen
Messages:9
Registered:September 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
I just defended the Drassen Mine against the Counterattack. At Daytime(high noon^^)on Insane Wildfire 6.06. Red layed lots of Mines and got 25 Kills that way (-: None of my Mercs got hit at all. With 32 Miltia running around as meatshield is was actually pretty easy. I allready had some decent equipment, mostly medium range AR(<40 Tiles) with 7x Scopes.

Imo all the Sight range improving items and camouflage need an overhaul. +3/4 Tiles just for wearing sunglasses isnt balanced at all. I changed some of those values, lowering sight range bonus from flashlights and sunglasses.

The problem ist, the ai will never ever use the equipment to the same effect as the player. Thats why all those fancy equipment acctually makes the game easier imo.


PS: Looking at the Archievements Page, it seems Red laid 86 Mines from which 46 Exploded, netted him 25 kills. I love mines (-:

[Updated on: Thu, 02 September 2010 19:55] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #261447] Fri, 03 September 2010 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
Great job Fenomen, really awesome!!


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #261516] Fri, 03 September 2010 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
Defending against DCA with good equipment and from prepared defensive position (i.e. mines and well-established kill zones) is never a hard thing IMO. If your mercs are well camoed and use superior range weapons, chances are no enemy will get close enough to make a potshot.
I once had such a situation in Alma (old times with vanilla). Five mercs on the roof of the biggest building repelled five enemy attacks in a row, littering the surroundings with dead bodies. No one got hurt, not even a graze. It took three tours to San Mona Arms to get rid of half the junk they left behind.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262301] Sun, 12 September 2010 03:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DEFCON 1

 
Messages:14
Registered:August 2010
Someone who did a Let's Play with all the shitty MERCs survived by hiding out in the small mining building and turned the windows and door into a dakka zone.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262386] Mon, 13 September 2010 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:161
Registered:October 2009
Hey, have you heard of the extension to this? It's called a "Killzone Stalemate" Smile
(AKA The Enemy Won't Come Through That Door Because They Know I'm Aiming At It)

One day, I've discovered a great way to end such a situation. One of good ole' Murphy's Laws.
"When in doubt, grenade 'em out."

Nothing more rewarding than tossing a grenade out of the building, only to hear a multitude of death-moans and wound-cries.
Or, throw a Molotov (or any other piece of incendiary nastiness) into the area and be certain NO enemy will come at you this way.
(Thing is, YOU won't be coming this way either!) Smile
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262557] Tue, 14 September 2010 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
When first reading about the DCA I had instantly disabled it because I don't want to fight some 100 redshirts with a handfull of level 1 mercs armed with pistols. This would have crossed the line from challanging to frustating.

Yesterday I gave it a try under slightly different conditions: I made a "Vietnam layout" arming the guys from MERC mostly with M16s, Stoggie and Biggins with M14s, Numb additionally an Ithaca, Tex a M21 Tactical, Haywire a M60 and Gaston a M40. Ira (= CIA Special Agent Ira Smythe, aka Rita Schmidt, aka Carmen dos Santos, aka Olga Petrova) has a Dragunov, captured on Drassen airfield. Flo and Biff are not present to prevent Razor and Gaston from quitting any other way than in a plastic bag.

The enenmy is wielding the usual Vietcong equippement, mostly AKs, a couple of SKS, on the high end Dargunvos and Russian MGs, and on the low end MAT-49s and a couple of Russian and German WWII weapons. Some (about 10%) do have just pistols and MPs. In armour only steel helmets (including camos for the enemy) are allowed, plus flak jakets for the MERCs. Playing that way is a somewhat different experience because each hit is serious and two or three hits means KIA.


Now to the AAR:

I had some 30 militias ready when three full stacks of redshirts (which are greenshirts in my edit) attacked at 0600, day 2 (means night time). A fourth group was in reserve but didn't enter the fight. I had two strongposts:

"Alamo I" The building north of the church
Stoggie, Gumpy, Numb and Gasket inside on the windows, and Tex and Bubba on the roof; Tex looking straight south to the mine building, Bubba SW to the dentist.

"Alamo II" The building west of the bar in the north
Cougar, Larry and Biggins inside on the windows, Ira, Gaston, Haywire and Razor on the roof looking south.

Both buildings were in the dark with a good view on some illuminated places like the entrance of the bar, the church, the space between the mining buero and the wine-shop, and the toiletts.

The militia was spread all over the map, with a couple of them in the full light around the church and the mine (those didn't survive the first rounds), two women between the rocks on the north side of the mining building, they had a lot of interrupts and caused the enemy some serious trouble until finally being killed. A handfull of militia was keeping out of harm between the bar and Alamo II, what was good because they were able to intercept a couple of enemy trying to flank Alamo II north of the bar. Later a large group of militia from everywhere on the map gathered behind the dentist and made a counter-attack against the enemy between the mining building and the dentist. They suffered heavy casulties but won.

In Alamo I on the roof Tex was able to take out a couple of bad guys which were running between the wine-shop and the church. Some escaped his attention but run into Numb's shotgun. Numb also was able to take out some guys sneaking around the north corner of the church that Bubba somehow didn't see. Bubba himself was slightly wounded by a missed bullet from the burst orgy of the militia and enemy around the dentist. He fired some blind hots into the dark without hitting anything. Later some enemies stepped into the light in front of the dentist and were shot by Bubba. He also had the honor to get the last guy in this battle.

Stoggie and Gumpy were encountered by a larger number of enemies sneaking around the southern corner of the toilett, that way stepping into full light. Gumpy managed to miss some twenty shots with his M16 on a distance where Flo would have hit with a revolver, but Stoggie got them all with short bursts. Gasket did not fire a single shot.

In Alamo II it turned out that all save Cougar were on the wrong position: There were no enemies coming from the south but a couple of black shirts appeared in front of the bar. They soon got company by a number of soldiers too. To much to handle for Cougar, so Haywire moved his MG around there - firing several long burst without hitting anything; that way contesting with Gumpy for being the worst soldier in this platoon.

Next came Ira doing much better with her Dragunov. Gaston meanwhile was standing on the roof for quicker turn arounds delivering a number of "-85" headshots with his bolt action rifle, even though in situations like that a Dragunov or a Tactical would have been the better choice. Also Razor had a few kills on his account. Biggins and Larry did not fire a single shot.

Later a second group of enemies tried to get around the northern side of the bar, but run into militia that made short work out of them.


The PBL revealed some 300 items, including a large stock of AKs, Dragunovs and MGs. Selling them brought enough cash to further finance the secret operations of Agent Smythe in Arulco (not that she has the intention of regulary paying the MERCs). Even though I am not sure to go on with them MERCs, they simply go on my nervs.


Summary:
When having enabled early MERC you should hire them for this battle. May be raise their equippement a bit because they don't even have 1st-aid packs what could become promlematical when trying to take Drassen at all. They cost about $12,000, means you are able to pay for them for three days with your starting cash. Ira, Biggins, Cougar and Stoggie should be able to train some 30 to 40 militias in 12 hours what would seriously raise the balance in your favour. The loot from this fight and the mining income should be sufficiently to sent them away afterwards and get your team of regular mercenaries.


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262563] Tue, 14 September 2010 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3499
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
a bit?
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262570] Tue, 14 September 2010 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
You mean my selection of M16s? Don't forget that I also have given the enemies the full deck of AKs etcpp. from level 0 (that is, expect snipers already in Omerta). When you use a normal EnemyGunChoices there would be no need to give the MERCs additional weapons. I can't recall what the new MERCs have per default 1.13, but Cougar for example comes with a Thompson. This would be sufficiently to get on with the early enemies and find some better weapons for the .38er fraction in that team.

I was talking about 1st aid kits that they are completly missing, what means each slightly wounded will simply bleed to death unless you were lucky to find a pack from the enemy.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262572] Tue, 14 September 2010 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3499
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
already wondered where you found that drag in drassen - considering the levels of drassen enemies (without looking into the mapeditor) they should shoot your m*e*r*c-mercs to pieces.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #262679] Wed, 15 September 2010 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Most enemies in cities pick their weapons from EnemyGunChoices (talking about 1.13). There is a very small number with pre-placed weapons, mostly Dragunovs in the later towns. Any changes in EGC should affect 99% of all enemies in the game that way.

I neither like the early pistol shootings nor the everything-in-the-world collection for the enemy army. With EGC this can be changed very fast, also affecting (close to) all enemies in cities. Doing so also fixes a problem with balancing in the early-mid game: In each 6 to 10 enemy troop there are usually two or three foes with better weapons. Even without "enemies drop all" and even without the loot from the DCA, leave alone buying fancy stuff from BR, each of your team should have a decent weapon latest after fighting the black shirts attacking the first SAM.

So when you leave Drassen you'll have a team of 6 or 7 armed with rifles and better SMGs. The enemy at this point is still using mostly pistols and MPs, with only one or two per troop with better weapons (compared to your 6 or 7). As long as you are able to get these one or two out early in the fight the rest don't stand a chance, in particular at daytime because a fighting Glock and MP5K vs. SKS and Mini-14 is a very one-sided affair with clear view on the target.

This goes on until after about the third city (for me Cambria), when the enemy finally has ARs as standard weapons. As long as you don't consider sniper rifles a suitable standard for your team, the enemy would again be on par with you in weapons. Even though at this point heavy armour rendering most weapons in game useless becomes the next problem in balancing....
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #263110] Mon, 20 September 2010 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer

 
Messages:145
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
RuiZiuR
I managed to fend them off with one merc even tho I usually use 2. I had them come after me while I was held up in the bar. They would come in 1 by 1 and I would interupt. Being 1 tile from the door I would not need to aim much. The key part of my strategy was when I would get low on AP I would shoot the guy in the leg preventing other ppl from entering the door. On the next turn I would finish off that guy and wait for the next. Eventually they would all fall to my one merc. Works pretty nicely but yea its a bit cheap.

Yes, this is the only non-hacking, non-dying way to do it IMO. Of course you can use more than one merc.

[Updated on: Mon, 20 September 2010 21:24] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #263148] Tue, 21 September 2010 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johno

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2007
until you run out of ammo and have to go scourging, that's where the fun begins Smile

i had 5 mercs holding off 160 enemies in one of my DCA's, i had stockpiles of ammo and guns ready for when the ones i was holding ran out of ammo/condition but i got separated from them and trapped on a roof.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264292] Tue, 05 October 2010 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Luppolo

 
Messages:157
Registered:July 2009
i just discovered that in WF maps you just need to waith the DCA people at sector E13, the ones that try to cross the river are hold easily and the others that try to go by the bridge... well you know Very Happy
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264349] Wed, 06 October 2010 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raycrasher

 
Messages:59
Registered:August 2010
Location: Philippines
Luppolo
i just discovered that in WF maps you just need to waith the DCA people at sector E13, the ones that try to cross the river are hold easily and the others that try to go by the bridge... well you know Very Happy


I accidentally tried this once, and it was a LOT of fun. 3 heavily armed, fully camoed/stealthed mercs on the way to Drassen from Alma, ambushed by 40+ elites at E13, not counting reinforcements. Mix in a group of bloodcats. I just hid the mercs in the southwest corner (the little island with the creek) and listened to the bloody roars and gunfire. It was quite a few turns before everything settled down, and then I had to kill the rest of the bloodcats to get at the loot Smile
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264428] Thu, 07 October 2010 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Yesterday's DCA loot:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5081/loot1x.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4590/loot2.jpg
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5482/loot3d.jpg

anyone needs a FN MAG or Uzi? And I am realy happy that I don't have to drag all this stuff to Tony.



A few things I now learned after playing it the fourth time always with different weapon set ups:

It is better to have this happening at night because from all direction, save from the north, they have to move through illuminated fields (south: the fields in front of the wine shop, the mining building and the church. west: the church and the dentist. east: the bar and the houses south of it). The DCA will happen some 12 to 16 hours after taking the mine sector, so take the mine sector around 1000 to 1200.


You need to train militia prior to conquering the mine sector. Train 20 blue and 20 green on the airport and in the central sector. After taking the mine sector place the 20 green militias there. Half of them will be shot down as soon as the enemy enters the sector, so no need to waste blue-shirts here.


In all occasions the first wave of enemies came from the east with some support from the south. The second wave was mostly attacking from the south with a few fresh guys from the east. And finally the rest came from the west. For the start you should concentrate on those coming from the east. These can be best fought off from the roof of the toilett. The militia will mostly rush on those in the south and should be able to hold the line until you have finished off the eastern enemies. After that move your team accordingly to where it is most needed (don't step into the line of fire of the militia!).


Not only for this one, you might consider to have militia drop all enabled. I had several occasions, in particular during the DCA, when militias were wounded, dropped their guns and that way were effectivly disarmed for the rest of the battle/their life because this left no weapon on the ground they could have picked up again.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264496] Fri, 08 October 2010 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
Hi Buns, pretty sweet loot!!

The two FN FALs are really neat! Even the HK21E is really great if you have an auto merc.

The LBE gear is pretty decent too, you got 4 MP holsters! If you have Bull, Grizly, or Steroid the knuckle dusters are useful for stealth missions, and the status is really good.

After this you'll never need 7.62x51 NATO ever again. Very Happy Too bad you only got three NVG.

What was your game progress when the DCA happened?


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264503] Fri, 08 October 2010 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Dieter
What was your game progress when the DCA happened?


Gamestart.

I have changed the enemy gun selection in the way that there is no progression but the enemy always has the same equippement. I consider Arulco a (former) pro-western Latin American state. So the Arulcan Army would be armed with older western weapons. Their standard weapons are:

Pistol: FN BDA and Colt
SMG: HK MP5 and Uzi (always including variations)
AR: M16, G3, FN FAL, Gali (including variations)
LMG: FN MAG, M1919, M60, HK 21
Sniper: Steyer SSG

Across the gun choices there are other weapons of the same calibers mixed in like occasional Steyr AUGs, SIG ARs, or here Beretta SMGs, to simulate Deidranna now being required to buy whatever she can get from the grey market.

Each level set of 50 gun choices has
5x Pistol
10x SMG
25x AR
5x LMG
5x Sniper

In theory I should have as many snipers as officers (pistol) in each enemy squad, and there should be 5 times more soldiers with ARs than with LMGs. As you can see, in reality it doesn't always work that way, because in that army I had the expected number of guys with pistols but none with a sniper rifle. In return I had more armed with LMGs than with ARs.

Enemy armor is limited to steel helmet, cammo helmet, flak jacket, and the older US field uniform.
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264504] Fri, 08 October 2010 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3736
Registered:July 2009
That looks like an interesting change. Please report back after playing it a bit longer as I'm a bit worried it could get boring getting basically the same drops all the time. Also did you change starting gear or Bobby Rays inventory? And what BR setting do you use (if at all)?.

PS: Finally somebody paying attention to the game. There are some hints (Intro, some quotes from Ira) that Arulco was originally supplied by the US, still when someone does a restructured enemy equipment mod, they often follow the thought chain

Arulco -> 'Banana Republic' -> 'Third World Country' -> Kalashnikov (and other Warsaw Pact weapons)


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264509] Fri, 08 October 2010 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
I use this setup now for quite a while (it has become my standard setup in the last four or five campaigns). Enemy droppings indeed play a lesser role because in the 100th battle you wouldn't find anything new you had not seen in the first battle (save for attachements; this is something I hadn't touched because of them working differently by coolness).

My mercs, of course, start with decent weapons themselves - but, to live off the land you would need to restrict yourself to 7.62N and 5.56. For example, Igor starts with an AS Val. In the 1.13 settings you'll find a couple of ammo for it after some progression in enemy drops. In this setup you'll never find a single round of it anywhere in Arulco (makes sense, I think) and have to rely much on BR. I use the maximum BR settings, but restrict myself to re-supplies.

Thanks to the way 1.13 treats weapon values no weapon class is realy obsolote: Each merc carries a pistol or MP as side-arm, and occasionally has to use it. For stealth ops you still need silenced SMGs because surpressed standard ARs are far from mute. The only thing you wouldn't use are non-auto non-sniper rifles, such as Mini-14 or SKS.

Battles are much more dangerous right from the start because the enemy always is using weapons that are able of killing your mercs in one turn - there might be a sniper aiming at the head of your IMP upon arrival in Omerta.

-------------
I have also tried a Vietnam setup, with the enemy using older WP and Russian and German WWII stuff (these booty weapons indeed where shipped in large ammounts into Vietnam by the Russians) and the mercs using mostly pre-1980 western weapons. Armor was limited to steel helmets and flak jackets.

This also was much fun: battles were very dangerous because each time an enemy shoots at you you would have a merc seriously wounded, if not dead.

I have also tried a WWII setup, but there are simply to many weapons missing (BAR, StuG44 and stuff like that) to make that "round".
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264513] Fri, 08 October 2010 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3736
Registered:July 2009
Cool to have an actual long term opinion on this stuff.

Depending on play style, just using 5.56 and 7.62N as main combat calibers sounds doable. I came to like 6.8 lately and the PDW calibers make formidable sidearms, but one could live without them.

The Vietnam thing sounds like SOG (mod for UB), although I have never played it. You might be able to get a 'round' WWII scenario if you use DBB/IoV as a base, they have more of these early guns.


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264517] Fri, 08 October 2010 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
DepressivesBrot
The Vietnam thing sounds like SOG (mod for UB), although I have never played it. You might be able to get a 'round' WWII scenario if you use DBB/IoV as a base, they have more of these early guns.
I know SOG (never played it, I don't have UB installed anymore), but what is DBB/IoV, please?
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264518] Fri, 08 October 2010 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3736
Registered:July 2009
IoV (DBB in older versions) biggest item mod for 1.13. The balance and quality control suffers a bit under the sheer mass of guns and items, but taking a specific section of guns and adjusting them for a certain scenario should be doable. There are examples like the 'Era Mod' which sorts guns by time of development /adaption instead of the normal progression and is based on IoV.


Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #264531] Fri, 08 October 2010 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Thank you!
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #275868] Wed, 16 March 2011 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scati
Messages:5
Registered:March 2011
Location: Germany
I'm not sure if it's still the case (tried with the stable v1.13, not svn) but I had several times around 15 enemies at the same point standing and waiting. At drassen counter attack and alma for example. I used in alma a mortar and hit them all. Closed my turn, expecting them to spread but most of them weren't moving. Others were standing up and going back (waiting for next mortar shot?).
In drassen the artist Razor was facing 15+ enemies with his knife. All standing & waiting at the same spot. Was my first drassen counter attack.
(Didn't see similar behaviour in regular Ja2)
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #275870] Wed, 16 March 2011 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Scati
All standing & waiting at the same spot. Was my first drassen counter attack.
(Didn't see similar behaviour in regular Ja2)
This is not limited to the DCA. Enemies tend to gather around certain spots for what reasons ever (I call that "founding a union").

For example, when you have 100% camo and are prone in high grass and you shoot one enemy (without silencer) you'll see a lot of them rushing to a tile from where they should see you - if had you no camo and were standing in the open - but where they can't. When you go on shooting on them it will not only cause some weired behaviour, like randomly going prone, running circles and stuff like that, but will also attract more of them who become the same stalled around that very tile.

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #275873] Wed, 16 March 2011 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JimTonic
Messages:8
Registered:December 2010
yeah i survived the dca! - after hours and hours Wink - i retreated when they came - and came back at night. choose YOUR battlefield not THEIRS
Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #276268] Mon, 21 March 2011 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptnGlupino
Messages:2
Registered:March 2011
Hey ppl Smile

Set diffeculty to expert. Took Drassen only with my merc (night ops), Raven and Ira.

Since this is first time I played 1.13 version, their counter attack really took me by surprise. They hit me during daylight with cca 40-50? mercs (could be more, I lost the (body)count)) Smile

Anyways...

I took my foothold in the building where Devin is located. (is that his name, the mortar-explosive dealer). Before attack, I bought mortar with 2 mustard gas shells, plus normal shell. Loaded it on Raven and put her on the roof. Ira and my guy were inside. I had Colt Commando with very few ammo and Ira had some lazy ass slow rifle with 5 rounds (I rarely use her in combat and usually don't waste my time equipping her, but as I said, this took me a bit by surprise so she had to fight).

It was the most fun 2 hours of my JA2 playtime Smile I reloaded alot of times, but in the end I was so happy with my achievement.

They gathered in front of the building, when Raven hit them with mustard gas mortar from the roof. Killed like 10 of them in few turns. Most of it elites.

The only bad thing is that Devin managed to die. It is bad in longterm and I didn't bother to reload. I took some laws from his corpse and blasted away another approaching group (didn't have any more 5.56 ammo for my main guy, and couldn't appraoch dead bodies with all those enemies around).

Had to climb Ira on the roof where she shot all enemies trying to climb up there, while Raven fired mortars and half-sniped all that were trying to approach building my main guy was in.

It was hard, took few reloads just to figure out where is the best place to fortify myself. Of couse, daylight was huge problem, at night it would be 10X easier...

But I survived, actually barely got hurt. Fun fun fun.

Very glad I didn't retreat Smile

Anyways... 1.13 - so far so great Smile

p.s. of course, not to mention I shipped militia to other sector so they don't die needlesly Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2011 16:47] by Moderator

Re: Defending Drassen Mine from mass enemies[message #276286] Mon, 21 March 2011 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
p.s. of course, not to mention I shipped militia to other sector so they don't die needlesly


Welcome to the pit cptn , Drassen counter attack IS fun isn't it ?
Still , your militia will never gain experience if you don't let them fight . :rifle:


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