Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » "1.13" Mod - Main Thread
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10568]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 06:35  
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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Quote:Originally posted by John Wright:
I'm also working on getting all the UC and UB tilesets together in the ja2set.dat file and testing my new maps with the 1.13 exe. Still working on that.
Nighthawk this is most interesting
you`re doing this for ja2 or unfinished business? you`d need to make a lot of new maps either way
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10569]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 06:38
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 DurtyDan |
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Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA |
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I just finished the 8/20 verson. I haven't heard any comments on the big picture here, so here are mine.
I started on expert mode, and it seemed too easy. Then restarted on insane diffuculty, which had way too many patrols for my liking. I like the well-equipped blackshirts, but the sheer number of patrols got tiring. It really limited movement between cities and required that too much time was spent maintaining the militia levels in the cities. The initial placements on city maps seeemed good, though. My recommendation? Just increase the number and frequency of the black shirts on patrols and overall initial placement numbers for expert level. This would make kind of a middle ground before before the insane level. That way, those who want constant, difficult battles can have it their way, and the rest of us who want difficult, but less frequent combat can have it our way.
The dropp all function works great for the soldiers, and I like the ability to grab armor and stuff off of the civilians, though they seemed more prone to the breath bug when beating them up for their goodies.
There seems to be a problem with targeting under certain conditions to/from a roof. Couldn't really predict or replicate it from map to map. Not enough of a problem to affect the overall experience, though.
Great job on the mod! This is groundbreaking stuff here. If only someone more talented than I could make a map conversion using this .exe, or convert one of the other great mods out there to this standard......
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Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10570]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 16:29
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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DurtyDan,
So how does 25% more elites in expert sound? That's the current # in insane. I've increased it, and also raised the insane level to have 50% more elites. Plus both expert and insane levels should not be limited to yellow shirts in cities. Finally, I've increased the garrison sizes by 25% in expert, which puts the # of enemies in cities/patrols in expert = 2/3 the # in insane.
There's a grace period defined in the code for the # of hours between the queen sending troops in to reclaim cities.
#define EASY_GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS 144 // 6 days
#define NORMAL_GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS 96 // 4 days
#define HARD_GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS 48 // 2 days
#define INSANE_GRACE_PERIOD_IN_HOURS 6 // hours!  I've increased this number to 18 hours to decrease the frequency of town attacks. Suggestions are welcome, as I'm only one person doing play-testing here 
John,
Thanks for the pics. I'll take a look at them when I've got a chance.
Snap/everyone:
The Breath bug - is it there or not? What's the final word?
Bobby Ray's on Good is pretty much normal with just two changes: Used items are one progress level higher than the new items, and BR is no longer a step behind Tony in progress levels. As for the actual stuff available and the quantities, you'll be able to change that in the Items.xml in the next release (see below for a sample).
Status update:
I have successfully externalized the following:
- Items
- Attachments
- Explosives
- Armour
- Ammo strings (you should be able to create new calibers, but I haven't tried yet)
- Shop keeper inventories
- Bobby Ray's inventory & ROF stats (in the Items.xml)
- Compatible Face Items
- Extra Attachment Info
- Merges
- Attachment combination merges
- Launchables
- Ammo magazines
- Incompatible Attachments (this is a new section - I had to rewrite this part of the code as all the attachment compatibility parts were hard-coded)
- Enemy weapon choices
- I haven't been able to externalize all the hard-coded strings like I had hoped because my C skills are crappy when it comes to strings and arrays and pointers :silly:
I added four new stats to the weapons.xml (not .dat anymore):
- SilencedSound = sound number when silencer is attached (used to be hard coded based on ammo caliber)
- APsToReload = self explanatory. used to be hard-coded to 5 for all items. Now we can change it.
- MaxDistForMessyDeath = Max. allowed distance for a head pop / flyback death animation. Used to be hard-coded to 7 for all weapons (except barrett, which was 23). I've upped the sniper rifles to 14. (BTW, I also increased all sniper rifles' damages by 10)
- SwapClips = 1/0. Whether the weapon will swap clips during combat, or top off as it does in real time mode. Set to 1 for shotguns & revolvers.
Here is a new sample of the externalized Items.xml file:
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282
RPG-7
RPG-7
Hey, it's an RPG, baby!
RPG-7
The Rocket Propelled Grenade, or RPG, is a cheap, single-shot weapon. It's main purpose to to provide an inexpensive albeit devastating weapon against soft targets.
16
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68
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1500
10
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-3
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As I said before, I left the booster syringes, the quest items, and the money hard-coded. Enemy (non-gun) inventory is still hard-coded however, as it'll be a major pain in the ass to get that part of the code externalized. Same goes for the inventory items assigned to IMPs.
Anyway, there's a bunch of new stuff in there that I added in there on top of what was already in the code. Some just externalize the existing hard-coded parts for a single function. Others are completely new; for example:
- DamageBonus = ranged weapon bonus applied on hit
- MeleeDamageBonus = hand to hand weapon bonus
- PercentStatusDrainReduction = kits have their status drain reduced (or increased if -ve) by this percentage
Some tags only apply to a single function, like still only works with the x-ray detector, but now you can have multiple types of batteries if you want.
Most bonuses now can be assigned to attachments, weapons and ammo(!), and all are cumulative. So you can have special armour piercing bullets that do extra damage, or homing bullets that give a to-hit bonus, or whatever. This is how the solid slug bonus for shotguns now work - the 12 gauge ammo has the range bonus! This is very cool, I think, as it opens up a huge range of possibilities. If the cumulative part bothers you, just make that particular weapon/attachment incompatible with the attachment with the bonus.
Duckbills: I had to hard-code in the check for buckshot when the duckbill tag is enabled before it'll apply the range bonus that you specify.
You can now have multiple mortars (I'm going to put the commando mortar from Snap's pics in as a sample), with different kinds of shells, multiple grenade launchers, multiple rocket launchers like the rpg, and multiple single shot launchers like the LAW (with changeable "discarded" items).
Other neat stuff is in there too, like the fingerprintID tag, which lets you add/remove fingerprintIDs from any weapon. The rocketrifle tag enables the small missile smoke trail for smaller sized rockets.
You can add new blades and throwing knives (shuriken anyone?), and have a corresponding "bloody" item appear when they hit their mark.
New armours & new armour attachments are possible.
New grenades and explosives are possible. New mines should be possible too.
New face items are possible. The various vision and hearing range bonuses now look in all equipped slots,including hands, so binoculars are possible (theoretically). (They don't look in attachment slots however (yet - I can add this if it's desired). Thermal goggles using the x-ray device aren't yet possible due to the way the x-ray detector works however.
Oh, and BTW, the new item limit has been tested and is working fine at 5000.
So, I've been pretty busy. What do you guys think?
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10571]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 17:13
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| gmonk |
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Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada |
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I think Madd Mugsy is actually three or four guys. This is an insane amount of work you've done.
I've been playing the hell out of the version you released a few days ago on expert mode with 'drop everything', I've found it challenging (I usually play with a fair complement of low-level AIM mercs, MERC mercs and native hires.) The extra stuff lying around doesn't really give you any advantage because you've got the same gear the enemy has, and you can't sell it all or grow more arms to hold weapons.
I haven't had to order much ammo from Bobby Ray's but I've ordered a fair numbr of toolkits, used gear and accessories. I find it a little more realistic and a little more challenging than the standard game on similar settings. Although the frequency of atacks on captured sectors is a little lower than I'd expect the fights that occur are challenging (I have a core capture squad and about 6-8 more mercs for logistics and reinforcement, when you start splitting them up for militia trg and so on it gets more challenging.
I encountered that weird 'no show' bug again in the Hick's Sector, but I remembered Police L.T. mentioning the rooftop thing and they appeared when I climbed onto a roof. Is there something in the code that puts them in a level above the players vision even if they aren't on a roof?
As for separating the data from the code, kudos, it's something that makes the game a lot more flexible for the other modders out there.
I've been fan of games that offer tools for modding since I found JA2. I've played a bit of Freedom Force and Neverwinter Nights because I like the modding. What I find remarkable about JA2 is that so much has been done with a toolset and base code that weren't really all that moddable in the beginning. Long live JA2!
Oh, and thanks Madd Mugsy for your excellent work.
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First Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10573]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 21:31
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Sorry, but I've got to disagree about the drop everything option, it did impact the gameplay by keeping me in surplus funding during sci-fi mode. The bug quest started right after Tixa (order of cities: Drassen, Chitzena, Alma, Tixa). Despite losing Drassen was able to top off with 18 mercs, leave a few behind in Drassen to suppress bug attacks, take Cambria, Balime and Grumm, train till each city sector had 20 blue mercs and pay MERC till they had Cougar. Between Tony and Franz(?) in Balime was able to avoid any short falls (complaints from local hires not being paid). Took back the mines when I could hire Cougar and had high capcity LMG's (didn't want to cart along too much spare ammo). I found drop all beneficial (realism), but others may consider the funding options it opens up to be a bit of a challenge reducer. (Ok I admit it, I found that beneficial as well.)
Incidentally, the new AI abandoned the General in Alma, which made the whole sneak into base to secure control room a bit silly. Burst into control room and everyone was outside on the roof waiting for my less covert team and its "clean-up" operation. It stands out in my mind of a rather funny incident more than anything else.
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10575]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 00:10
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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absolutely great stuff muggs!
i`ll surely do a large weapon/ itemmod for this
however, i`ll never come close to 5000 items (after all, some sort of balance is required)
but i can think of new attachments, new specialized sniper ammo, particuliarly accurate rifles and so on
adding different explosives and LAW-types
melee items (can i also have an item that uses the throwing knife animation but doesn`t need to generate a new item?)
really, the possibilities you offer are incredible
btw is it also possible to have the "small rocket" animation tied to ammunition? because for instance monster spit has a similar aniamtion tied to it
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10579]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 03:03
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Scorpion,
Quote:
melee items (can i also have an item that uses the throwing knife animation but doesn`t need to generate a new item?)
Yes. If you don't specify a bloodied item #, it just keeps the original item.
If khor can do the animations for it, I can probably also add in swords, and dual-wielding for knives/swords. (Heck, rifles too, for the stonger guys).
Quote:
btw is it also possible to have the "small rocket" animation tied to ammunition? because for instance monster spit has a similar aniamtion tied to it
Right now it's just assignable to a weapon, using the rocketrifle tag. Were you thinking of something in particular that would require the small rocket flag to be in the ammo and not the weapon?
gpmg,
Quote:
I think Madd Mugsy is actually three or four guys. This is an insane amount of work you've done.
It's just me. I work pretty fast, and have been neglecting my wife and other work for the last few days 
BTW, I have also "acquired" a pdf version of the D20 Ultramodern firearms book. I'm hoping that it's got reasonable stats I can port over to JA2.
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10580]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 07:43
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i was thinking of that particuliar ammo that glows (don`t know english name... tracer maybe?)
that would need a smart redesign of the rocket rifle smoke trace though, which is hard to do (you guessed it... i already tried and it looks bad)
but if i have only 1 gun using that ammo than it would also work with current version (again it`s no "urgent" feature as i`d have to get some acceptable animation anyway
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10585]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 10:11
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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the first link i got in google shows this pic of a 5.56 beta-c mag
http://www.uws.com/CMAG/Technical.html
it is the same as the pic that i uploaded
i dunno if there are 7.62 versions of beta c mags, but there are certainly 7.62 nato ammo boxes or belts
(snap has certainly some pics of that in the archives he uploaded)
btw i played an exe where the sniper scope allows you to see 2 tiles further when the weapon is in ready position (aiming)
this is an interesting feature and allows for new tactics
would need some testing concerning sniping enemies though
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10587]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 10:40
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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you were misinformed in the beginning of the thread i think
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg18-e.htm
her is th HK 21
it uses a nato box
i think the picture is in snap`s upload so you can just switch the 7.62 c.mag for one of his pictures there
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg19-e.htm
here is a 5.56 LMG w a beta-c mag
i find it a good solution that you need to aim in a certain direction in order to see farther with a scope. should also cause the sighting radius to become much smaller i find
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10589]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 11:43
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| Snap |
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Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo... |
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Quote:Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
I'd like to add some more new weapons bonuses before I do a release too. Things like bonuses to ammo capacity and a bonus to reduce the # of APs to ready & reload weapons would be cool. Bonuses to reduce the burst penalty or the # of APs needed to beging autofiring are totally doable too. "Bonus to ammo capacity", i.e. magazine adapter can be simply implemented by merging items: merge the gun with the adapter item and get a new gun with a different capacity. The new gun can reuse the same picture (or have a slightly modified picture) and just have a slightly different name and description. This will save attachment slot, too.
How about a negative bonus to APs or burst penalty? Certain attachments might have such negative effects. In fact, most bonuses could be implemented such as to allow negative values, as well as positive.
Quote:I'd like to also go ahead and have the vision/hearing range bonuses look at attachments. (That way a gun with a scope could actually let you see farther) Dangerous stuff :nono: Not that it won't work, but if you have, say, a visual range bonus for scope, it'd better be balanced with a more narrow field of view and decreased awareness. And it should only have an effect when the gun is actually readied. In any case, it might have a weird effect on the gameplay...
Speaking of readying the gun, do you think it could be implemented? I mean, having a button or at least a hot key that would allow you to raise the gun without necessarily firing it?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10590]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 12:04
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i second that idea of narrowed field of view if scopes (weapon in ready state) allow for longer visula range
btw i`m playtesting an exe that has this feature. It is best implemented if only sniper rifles allow sniper scopes and the field of vision is narrowed
night vision scope the same. it is pretty balanced, as you need peeople to cover your flanks if you want to do some sniping (especially with that smarter AI in this Mod)
using ctrl-r hotkey combo, the weapon can be brought in ready state. This was implemented by neyros using code-insertion i guess so it should also be possible for a new compiled exe
ahh, yes, something else: an attachment that lowers the weapon`s weightand AP usgage for bringing the weapon in ready position: permanent attachemnt folding buttstock (only allowed on weapons with heavy, fixed buttstock)
(well, if we have 5000 items we can also do that using merging
that`d be a nice thing anyway to since most weapons today are being produced in "family`s", means you have a carbine, an assault rifle and an LMG that originate from the same gun
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10595]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 23:02
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| surefire |
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Messages:15
Registered:August 2005 |
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@wil473,
The Beta C-mag can be used by many 5.56NATO rifle families by applying corresponding magazine adapter(or Feed Clip Kit by Beta Co.). We could see this Feed Clip Kit on Beta Company's homepage: http://www.betaco.com
And interestingly, Beta Co. now can provide a COLT 9MM C-MAG System which could be used by MP5 series, but it has a different Feed Clip Kit than familiar 556 C-mag.
So i think the magazine-adapter-attachment idea should do if technically the # of rounds for a gun can be changed.
Moreover, if the real empty clip can be simulated, then it will be more fun and real-life like, for instance though we could got a magazine adapter in the game, we perhaps have no a C-mag in the same time, and those C-mags are not cheap($200 each), we should not just throw them away . And technically i believe the magazine adapter should be mounted on the C-mag other than the gun.
EDIT:
Have any mods realized "corner shooting" or any such things? I mean if a merc stands next to a corner-tile or a door-tile he/she can shoot(or throw grenades) the other side while enemies cannot see his/her body. Of course this kind of shooting can not be accurate because the merc only reach out hand but head. This maybe tactically useful, such as room-cleaning and should be used by enemy as well. Don't know whether this could be done by simply allowing shooting from the tile next to the corner-tile or the opened-door-tile.
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Private
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10604]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 19:00
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| Snap |
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Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo... |
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Quote:Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
As for AI snipers, I noticed that I missed checking for a decent chance to hit before a sniper takes a shot. Ah, that's what I thought. It seems to me that JA2 AI isn't very sophisticated - it's basically a cascade: if it doesn't do one thing, then it will do the next in line, or the next, etc. Oh well.
BTW, does AI try to avoid standing in the light in 1.12? I've seen some code that is supposed to do that (for enemies on red alert only), but I wonder whether it actually makes a difference.
Quote:Speaking of which, what are opinions on supression fire like? I think I could add it in for LMG type weapons using code similar to the sniper code. Hm, not sure. Make it affect morale depending on experience? (Cowards get double penalty, of course.)
Quote:What kinds of things would you guys like to see in an ini file exactly? - A scale for skill progression. As Khor suggested in another thread, skills may improve too fast, especially in densely populated mods. Then again, you initially made skill progression even faster than in the original, so opinions differ. That's just the kind of thing that would be best left as an option. Could be implemented as a percent fraction - from, say, 10% (or whatever is reasonable) to 200%. 100% is the default.
- Zero skills can improve (yes/no)
- A scale for enemy population. Some like to have lots and lots of enemies, others find it too hard or too tedious.
- A scale for mine income, perhaps? Might be too tempting
- New and improved Bobby Ray's vs. Bobby Ray's Classic
- Hearing noises reveals hidden enemies vs. the older, more primitive but arguably more realistic implementation.
- Critical hit scale or switch, for those who like FPS-style gamplay
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10605]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 22:10
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| flybyu |
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Messages:44
Registered:August 2005
Location: Indiana U.S.A |
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I took all burst fire off all weapons that did not have burst fire. Just Full or semi-auto.
Man you want to talk about war bullets flying everywhere those words COVERING FIRE comes real now.
I have see an npc empty an HK-21 I mean none stop I bet in real life he would have been thinking about replacing that barrel very soon. And yes if you or mercs are not by good cover you will die. Snipers Heck you don
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Corporal
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10606]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 23:44
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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something else that used to be discussed but was bever made: when a merceanry has 2 MAC-10`s for instance and goes full auto...
...can he fire from both weapons?
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Sergeant Major
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