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Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #155734] Tue, 04 September 2007 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2047
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
CNC_gun

Even forget how to add new STIs in JA2set.dat - look at my signature.


As we implemented the prone throwing item animation we didn't find a way to add the STIsto ja2set.dat. So we simply added the animations into the code. It works just the same way like in the ja2set.dat. So it is definitly an option.


Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #155863] Wed, 05 September 2007 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MAn
Messages:9
Registered:June 2007
Location: Kharkov-city, USSR
Uncle_Sasha_Gun, maybe it`s better to make damaged BTR (armored troop-carrier) or БМП -> BMP (не знаю, как по-английски)instead of the airplane? To come inside the machine through the back door or top hatch. it`s possible to make so that to shoot from behind a turret. And so on, and the like...
Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #155916] Thu, 06 September 2007 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

AFAK, JA2set.dat include the tileset structure data for all available tilesets. Structure is hardcoded, as per type and quantity.
If there is no special sti's and jsd's for given cell in the JA2set.dat, it is "filled" from the "generic" tileset.
Was alltimes astonished by the planes types in Drassen and Meduna. It was some discussions on JA2.ru pages about "flying" problem. One of the results - planes must be renewed! And it must be at least one, well known, american made ANTI-GUERILLA plane! Bugmonster even tried to allow raid over Omerta just after game start.
So, the OV-10 is a perfect candidate - it is even armed with 4 7,62(!!!) MGs. What more? And it can take up to 6(!!!) troopers in the pod! Isn't it looking like an "air-hummer"?
Cf. the 168(!!!) meters to take off for one of models.

Some pictures are selected, but try to make them ISOmetric...

The "drone" problem is even more interesting. Code modif. provided, we can combine properties of "CAR" and "HOUSE" in a plane. As a limit, it is possible to make "car" and "plane" to move on tactical map.

The concept of "body modification" seems to be one of the ways to do many "remarkable" effects and actions.

Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #155920] Thu, 06 September 2007 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

MAn (sic!!!)! Do it! Is there ICQ in Kharkov, USSR? Knock my door - i'm inside.

Read the biggest post on this page - to add something You need to "code" something!

The idea is simple - some type 3 JSD and STI of var. carriers must be added to tileset (or some existing STI substituted).
More clearly - You change, say, walls stis to parts of carrier, doors to cabin etc. Cf. UC underground (metropolitain). And You use optical illusions tricks to have a realistic view.

As per turret - read above. Remember "Commando" game - the "Big Gun" mission - the machine-gun on tripod - You "enter" the tripod, becoming unmovable(!) machinegunMAn.

Sirtechs tested this concept on Rutven - the "wanted" killer on a wheelchair - it leave it, when offensed, and become an (dangerous) S_body!

[Updated on: Thu, 06 September 2007 00:27] by Moderator

Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #162139] Sun, 21 October 2007 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
zed

 
Messages:43
Registered:November 2006
hi Cgun,
is there any news in the multi level patch you made to the JSD engine? is there something that is working?
Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #164954] Sun, 18 November 2007 03:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
@CNC_Gun

I think I read here that someone has a scuba feature they are working with? If you need an animation for this I already have it for the S_Merc bodytype but only in one direction (7 more directions would need to be made but they are pretty simple).

If someone really wants this animation you should post here so MaN (or less likely me) might get it done.


@Everyone

I have a question about how Blackdragon's jsd editor handles the multipart jsds:

Am I correct in assuming that the y coordinate of 0 refers to the layer of the jsd that touches the ground and those with -1 or greater y coordinate value refer to layers of the jsd above the ground level?

It seems that trucks and planes all have 0s one their first 'level' of the jsd (the first part of the multipart) so I think this means they are ethereal (passable) at ground level.


Also do the numbers in the multipart represent height in pixels or am I completely missing the boat here?
The old jsd editor just had squares representing ground, waist and head levels but of course blackdragon's offers so many more possibilities I definately need to know my way around this one.


Any help would be much obliged.
Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #165319] Tue, 20 November 2007 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

Dear Khor! Please reread my topics on JSDs and look attentively at the pictures hereabove!
The nibble in the JSD is not a height, but the STRUCTURE of a 4 (four) layers of JSD.
Every ODD nibble has structure "brick" on ground (0b0101 means You don't see legs and head, but You see the body).

Let me finish some stuff for Scorpion, and some refinements will follows.

As per scuba - the main problem remain in CODE of the game ENGINE, not in STIs, "helas"!..

BTW. Ask Lalien - i have sent a corrected version of the JSD editor - it show every tile correctly, as a set of "bricks".

[Updated on: Tue, 20 November 2007 23:07] by Moderator

Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #165337] Wed, 21 November 2007 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
@CNC gun

I do realise that a true scuba feature would require some fancy bit of new coding. My offer was to simply provide the animation (at least in part) so that someone who might work on this would have something to go on. My animation (as yet untested but I'm sure it would work graphically) was intended for an alternate game insertion scene 9replacing the helidrop).

It occoured to me however, that by using maybe part of the isolated entry point part of the map code we might (meaning you coders might) someday be able to make alternate sector teleports around the coastline of a map. Maybe this coastline extends to the middle of the map sector and nearer (for instance) a map objective.

It is a somewhat far fetched idea but when reading through this post I heard someone mention scuba and my thoughts returned to this idea.


As for how Blackdragon's jsd editor arranges the layers of a jsd (from ground to kneeling to standing and above) I guess I didn't get this right. I thought the first layer of the layered JSD referred to the ground level because I saw on the cesna.jsd the first part of each multipaged section of the .jsd was all zeros. This implied to me that the plane was not touching the ground. I was thinking if it is somehow problematic to have landing gear or wheels be represented as solid objects so they are ignored - so be it - it is far better to have a 'floating' plane than one that is completely solid at ground level.


You say I should e-mail lalien for the updated editor?

If this is the only place I can find it I will wait a day then do so.


The work on the trenches looks fantastic! My hat is really off to you if you've made this work. If you like, you can send me any placeholder graphics you might have for the trenches (I have to say they don't look all that bad to be though) and if during the course of my latenight image editing I manage to crank out better ones I will send them your way. Between real life and working on my mod project (and now playing RR habitually) I don't have much time but sometimes I get on a roll and surprise myself with how much I'm able to accomplish (if we only had all day of every day to do this work...).

But in any event, keep up the good work and please keep us posted.
Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #165408] Thu, 22 November 2007 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

The intersector teleport by diving is a NICE idea. You propose to change the teleport entering animation, afai understand? Have You tried the teleport in the deep water? It is the most important test!

As per JSD-edit - a .rar file will be some 300 kBytes. Is it OK with Your e-mail?

Do You understand the JSD structures (and how JSD engine work) now? With trenches - the walls must be placed (i can't repeat the right past tense of DRAW - the example is deep in MFM thread) in the MIDDLE of the tile, like fences! Not like house walls!
In the same way, the plane wheels can be JSD'ed with a structure having an odd number in place of the wheel.
Cf: we have a wing on the man head height. It is JSD'ed with a 0x04 code, or 0b0100. Then You want а landing gear - it touch ground, but it is thin. The code of the JSD will be 0x07 or 0b0111. Then, we add the tire, half-a-leg height. Combined with the wing it give the code 0x05 or 0b0101.
Finally, let's collect the full tile JSD matrix (it's hard to write):

0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04
0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04
0x04 0x05 0x07 0x05 0x04
0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04
0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04 0x04

0100 0100 0100 0100 0100
0100 0100 0100 0100 0100
0100 0101 0111 0101 0100
0100 0100 0100 0100 0100
0100 0100 0100 0100 0100

You can see, presuming the left column the south-west, the plane axe is in the same direction. If You look thru this JSD at a man, placed right behind the wheel, the wing will mask the head, the landing gear will mask the stomach, the tire - the legs. But You will see the HANDs.

We can put some bombs or missiles or tanks under the wing - the code will be 0x06 or 0b0110!!!
The same with the upwing engine - code will be 0xC0 or 0b1100!!!

As per tail - it is the "Item on top", like the things-on-roof.

Every 0 in JSD is "nothing", but the "one" can have many properties, according to Your wishes...
---

BTW! It is not difficult to add (scuba) diving in the game engine - You proceed like on ground, with "S" for swim, "C" for dive, "P" for dive deeper. But Your stamina fly away very fast. And the engine must have some additional controls...
We shall try to look at the code this weekend.

[Updated on: Thu, 22 November 2007 03:15] by Moderator

Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #165724] Mon, 26 November 2007 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
The fact that sprites will start from a standing position no matter what is under them in the insertion scene is a problem. If I'm remembering correctly, a sprite will remain standing as if on a little island until you move him from that first tile. This and an underwater swimming animation would have to be dealt with to make this an ingame feature but for an insertion scene (replacing the helidrop) this is not necessary.



300kb is fine. My e-mail is Khor1966@yahoo.com


I really don't understand how the existing jsd editor assigns tiles structure. You seem to be saying they are arranged left to right. I see this is the case with the multiple PAGES of a multipart sti like the cesna. But what I don't understand is how the different parts of each page are arranged.

Most jsds have both Structure items (which correspond to pages in a multipaged sti) and tile items.

I thought tile items referred to different layers of each structure item. I was thinking the first reference was at ground level, the second at waist high level, the third at head level and the fourth above head level.

What are these tile items for? How are they arranged?


I think I understand that 0 value means ethereal or completely passable to the physics engine but what direction are the numbers one and greater extending towards? I was thinking they show the actual 3d representation (or rather simulation) of the structures different layers.

Am I completely off the mark here?


Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #166978] Sat, 08 December 2007 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deathstruck

 
Messages:138
Registered:June 2007
Location: Czech Republic
So ? Whats up with this ? Sorry for bumping this thread but those trenches looks veeery promising Smile
Re: Digging trenches, a house like plane. Isometry and JSD studies...[message #257469] Sun, 25 July 2010 17:33 Go to previous message
SharkD

 
Messages:362
Registered:July 2003
Cool tutorial. Would be even better in English!
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