Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » Big Maps Project
Re: Big Maps Project[message #256315] Thu, 15 July 2010 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Beka

 
Messages:90
Registered:November 2009
Location: Vault 13
smeagol
... but only answers this question gets is either "not doable" or "wait for SMP".

Kaerar
We are looking into that with SMP ...


I guess one can't deny that this issue has one or maybe two comical aspects to it. :blah:
Re: Big Maps Project[message #256317] Thu, 15 July 2010 18:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
LOL, well I'm saying don't wait for SMP to fix the default JA2 issue. We are looking at a different way of handling the tilesets and map structures to allow for more expansion and possibly even more visual depth (32bit instead of palettised gif).


Re: Big Maps Project[message #256751] Sun, 18 July 2010 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bugmonster

 
Messages:16
Registered:November 2006
Tiler_Durdan
@smeagol

i'm afraid merging all tilesets into one won't work because of tileset slot limitation, remember?

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237080#Post237080

making it short:

every slot where you put a tileset
e.g. truck.sti in slot FIRSTVEHICLE
is limited to a certain amount of frames
in this example frames=12

Frame limitation in each tileset slot was externalized and stored in ini-file in JA2005.
It was not as smart as it would be in SMP, but it worked.
Re: Big Maps Project[message #260626] Thu, 26 August 2010 03:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:358
Registered:July 2003
Kaerar
LOL, well I'm saying don't wait for SMP to fix the default JA2 issue. We are looking at a different way of handling the tilesets and map structures to allow for more expansion and possibly even more visual depth (32bit instead of palettised gif).


True multi-storey buildings/terrain would be awesome too. I mean without the hacks that people have come up with in the past. There's no rush of course. Would rather see existing projects finished and polished before new projects are started.
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263628] Sun, 26 September 2010 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
In last build of map-editor still is problem with sandbags on the roofs,
as say - smeagol, in early versions of the editor, such problem was't.

please fix it if you can, and know in what that problem...

thanks.
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263808] Tue, 28 September 2010 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@all: Good news, after hours of debugging and testing I could finally fix the incorrect physics (throwing items, throwing grenades, fireing launchers, mortars, ...) for Big Maps!!


Re: Big Maps Project[message #263809] Tue, 28 September 2010 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
RoWa21
@all: Good news, after hours of debugging and testing I could finally fix the incorrect physics (throwing items, throwing grenades, fireing launchers, mortars, ...) for Big Maps!!



WHOA!!!!

:super:


Re: Big Maps Project[message #263811] Tue, 28 September 2010 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tapp

 
Messages:12
Registered:August 2007
Location: Poland, Silesia
Great work RoWa21 ! I've been waiting for progress in this project for a long time Smile

So, the last step for big maps project is actually mappers creating new big maps ? Or there are any other issues that must be resolved, before anyone can start creating new maps ?
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263812] Tue, 28 September 2010 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Of course there are a few things left to fully support Big Maps, but in general it is possible to create bigger maps (up to 2000x2000 with the map editor) and you can also play them.



Re: Big Maps Project[message #263822] Tue, 28 September 2010 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
@all: Good news, after hours of debugging and testing I could finally fix the incorrect physics (throwing items, throwing grenades, fireing launchers, mortars, ...) for Big Maps!!


very good news !
Wink
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263826] Tue, 28 September 2010 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bugmonster

 
Messages:16
Registered:November 2006
Good work, Roman!
Can you handle the problem with rooftop sandbags?
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263878] Wed, 29 September 2010 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
yiiiieeepieeeee! well done Roman & Co!

now all we need are extended tilesets so we can actually make more complex and overall more diverse bigger maps.

i hope there won

☆★GL★☆
Re: Big Maps Project[message #263902] Wed, 29 September 2010 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Thanks, I will look into the sandbags problem the next few days.

Yes the Map Editor works stable also with Big Maps.



Re: Big Maps Project[message #263923] Wed, 29 September 2010 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
Thanks, I will look into the sandbags problem the next few days.

Yes the Map Editor works stable also with Big Maps.



Thaks !
Wink
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264084] Fri, 01 October 2010 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
Thanks, I will look into the sandbags problem the next few days.

Yes the Map Editor works stable also with Big Maps.



did you find error in map-editor ?

(at ver. 2222 of editor - all OK, as I know)
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264086] Fri, 01 October 2010 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
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Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
I had not time yet to look. I have some time tomorrow. Thanks for Info.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264114] Fri, 01 October 2010 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
ok
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264319] Tue, 05 October 2010 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
waiting ...
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264322] Tue, 05 October 2010 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@Kirill: Sorry to say, but still no time yet to fix. Currently nearly any free time cause of RL and work...


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264342] Wed, 06 October 2010 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
ok
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264389] Wed, 06 October 2010 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
RoWa21
@Kirill: Sorry to say, but still no time yet to fix. Currently nearly any free time cause of RL and work...


I could fix another Map Editor bug (CTD). It happend when you create a new map and want to change the tileset for the map.

BTW, I hope I have some time the next few days to look into the sandbag bug.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264424] Thu, 07 October 2010 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
ok .. I will be wait ...

my mod use sandbag on the roofs, so it problem for me,
to create new maps ...
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264511] Fri, 08 October 2010 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Kirill
ok .. I will be wait ...

my mod use sandbag on the roofs, so it problem for me,
to create new maps ...


The bug with sandbags occured in Map Editor Revision: 2377

I am going the compare the version before Revision 2377 and see what causes the problem. Maybe I can fix it today (depends on free time)...

EDIT: Thanks to subversion its easy to track down bugs Smile

EDIT2: Its fixed, now its possible again to place sandbags on rooftops.

EDIT3: I have uploaded the Map Editor. Use this Map Editor together with the latest Single-Click-Installer (SCI) from Tais:
http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/Wanne/MapEditor/MapEditor_EN_3749.zip

[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 15:30] by Moderator



Re: Big Maps Project[message #264519] Fri, 08 October 2010 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Hooooooooray.


Thanks a lot RoWa.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264521] Fri, 08 October 2010 16:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
BTW, I also add the new JA2 UB Tilesets to 1.13, so we have more tilesets to choose from.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264522] Fri, 08 October 2010 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Nice work again Roman!

so now bigger maps should work properly with editor?

btw, what do you think about the recent discussion about a new tileset system here http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=264452#Post264452 ?

i see you have already fulfilled the request on adding the UB tilesets to 1.13, how big you recon would be the work involved in changing/expanding the tileset system and which of the currently discussed approaches would you prefer personally or do you have another system in mind?

just regarding the impact this would have on the whole tileset and map mechanics and knowing the map and tileset related code. and since it would be pretty much of a prerequisite to make proper use of bigger maps, so it should maybe be treated as part thereof.

☆★GL★☆
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264523] Fri, 08 October 2010 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@Mauser:

I have had a close look at the tilesets discussion. I will read the thread more carefully and then give my feedback

Yes big maps should work fine with the Map Editor. The only "problem" so far are the old grid numbers in the NPC script. But we have a solution for this. Bugmonster has a NPC Editor which can convert the grid numbers from "normal" maps to "big" maps.

Indeed, the tilesets code needs to be altered to have a more flexible use togther with big maps.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264525] Fri, 08 October 2010 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
allright Roman, waiting for your input then. we need someone who really knows the code in these regards in order to get a somewhat accurate assessment and come to a practical decision on how to tackle this problem.

[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 16:51] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264533] Fri, 08 October 2010 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Just tested the sandbagsthing with the new map editor and it works likea charm. Good job.


Now lets hope that someone gets the tileset changes to work. I really like to add some of the UB stuff to the WFtilesets (like the Autumn trees, those look really nice and colourful Smile ).

Though the UB tilesets really have a lot of redundancy (many stuff duplicated in the tileset, especially furniture has like 3 times the same selection of the same kitchen sinks in some tilesets for example).


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264561] Fri, 08 October 2010 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Okay, so I ran a first test with my big map for drassen.

The physics all work excellently fine. But...

uhm... take a look at this screenie of the CPU usage:

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2923/cpuusage.gif


Enemy turns take like 3-5 minutes, and that is without the enemies even having spotted me (previous versions of the big maps exe had flaws with the physics, but not with speed... they all worked more or less fast, but this is basically unplayable atm :/ ).



My system may be old, but not that bad...

[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 23:46] by Moderator



Re: Big Maps Project[message #264566] Fri, 08 October 2010 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3396
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
smeagol
Okay, so I ran a first test with my big map for drassen. ... But...


it simply means you are such a fine field-commander that the enemy needs anything at his disposal to react properly :devilaugh:
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264567] Fri, 08 October 2010 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:807
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
smeag is using my latest vanilla beta SCI, if someone else has the same behaviour please pm me or otherwise inform me Smile


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264591] Sat, 09 October 2010 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
Kirill
ok .. I will be wait ...

my mod use sandbag on the roofs, so it problem for me,
to create new maps ...


The bug with sandbags occured in Map Editor Revision: 2377

I am going the compare the version before Revision 2377 and see what causes the problem. Maybe I can fix it today (depends on free time)...

EDIT: Thanks to subversion its easy to track down bugs Smile

EDIT2: Its fixed, now its possible again to place sandbags on rooftops.

EDIT3: I have uploaded the Map Editor. Use this Map Editor together with the latest Single-Click-Installer (SCI) from Tais:
http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/Wanne/MapEditor/MapEditor_EN_3749.zip


big thanks !
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264592] Sat, 09 October 2010 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
datakurs

 
Messages:169
Registered:June 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Smeagol, I also experienced the 3-5 minute length turns with your D13 and D15 big maps some weeks ago. Many of the enemy guys just stand like statues and think each of them about 30 seconds before pass their movement. May it be some AI incompatibility with newer moduls like STOMP / HAM 3.6 etc.?
Re: Big Maps Project[message #264618] Sun, 10 October 2010 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
@Mauser:
I have had a close look at the tilesets discussion. I will read the thread more carefully and then give my feedback
Yes big maps should work fine with the Map Editor. The only "problem" so far are the old grid numbers in the NPC script. But we have a solution for this. Bugmonster has a NPC Editor which can convert the grid numbers from "normal" maps to "big" maps.
Indeed, the tilesets code needs to be altered to have a more flexible use togther with big maps.



I found problem in MapEditor 3749, when You work with big-maps -
Problem with the cursor when you try to put the character \ enemy on a roof.
Cursor co-ordinates are brought down...


problem only on big-map, on standart maps - all OK.



can you fix that ?
Wink

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2010 16:44] by Moderator

Re: Big Maps Project[message #264647] Sun, 10 October 2010 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
How can I put an enemy on a flat roof???

Whenever I switch to the enemy placement, the roofs disappear, so I cannot add them on roofs. Give me a step by step instruction how I can do that, than there is a good chance I can fix the bug.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264649] Sun, 10 October 2010 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
RoWa21
How can I put an enemy on a flat roof???

Whenever I switch to the enemy placement, the roofs disappear, so I cannot add them on roofs. Give me a step by step instruction how I can do that, than there is a good chance I can fix the bug.


use -

INSERT or PageUp\PageDown buttons, to get roof cursor ... and place enemy on roof ..
(when you at enemy's menu in editor)

try make it on standart map,
then open big map - and you see the bug ..
Wink

"no cursor"

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2010 19:33] by Moderator

Re: Big Maps Project[message #264653] Sun, 10 October 2010 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
OK thanks for info.


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264697] Mon, 11 October 2010 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
smeagol
Okay, so I ran a first test with my big map for drassen.

The physics all work excellently fine. But...

uhm... take a look at this screenie of the CPU usage:

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2923/cpuusage.gif


Enemy turns take like 3-5 minutes, and that is without the enemies even having spotted me (previous versions of the big maps exe had flaws with the physics, but not with speed... they all worked more or less fast, but this is basically unplayable atm :/ ).



My system may be old, but not that bad...


Thats weird. I created a big map with maximum size (2000x2000) and placed 32 enemies on the map in the game with cheat, and it was as fast as on normal maps. Enemy turn was quite fast.

Did you use a Release or Debug version when running the big map?


Re: Big Maps Project[message #264698] Mon, 11 October 2010 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2039
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Kirill
RoWa21
@Mauser:
I have had a close look at the tilesets discussion. I will read the thread more carefully and then give my feedback
Yes big maps should work fine with the Map Editor. The only "problem" so far are the old grid numbers in the NPC script. But we have a solution for this. Bugmonster has a NPC Editor which can convert the grid numbers from "normal" maps to "big" maps.
Indeed, the tilesets code needs to be altered to have a more flexible use togther with big maps.



I found problem in MapEditor 3749, when You work with big-maps -
Problem with the cursor when you try to put the character \ enemy on a roof.
Cursor co-ordinates are brought down...


problem only on big-map, on standart maps - all OK.

You are right, the cursor is not visible, but you can add enemies on rooftops. Anyway I have to take a look in the source what causing the missing cursor on rooftops when placing enemies.



can you fix that ?
Wink


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