Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163777]
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Tue, 06 November 2007 02:48
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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Improving Original JA2 graphics
[Updated on: Thu, 15 May 2008 00:33] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163813]
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Tue, 06 November 2007 12:00
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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Thank you all for showing interest about this thread.
KaerarThe only request I would have is that the scale be increased a little as with the higher resolutions detail is lost. Sorry, but no. We'd have to rescale the tiles too, and that would be a lot of work.
KaerarThe ultimate way would be using dcc from D2 as that allows for easy modding and the engine doesn't need to do all the colouration. Failing that FOT would be fine. Yes, that'd be nice, but we can't use other formats than STI (legal reasons and what not). Once again, the message to the coders: we need to force the JA2 engine to use ("emulate") layered sprites, which would be made from several (4-8) normal STI sprites.
KaerarAlso a question for the coders. Would it be possible to upgrade to 16 directions rather than 8? Good question, but I think this would be humongous amount of work, since the whole game is set to work with 8 directions... I wish I'm wrong.
MordulReplacing the way the sprites are managed seems like it would be quite a task... Completely right. Don't expect this to be finished over night, it's a lot of graphical and coding work. Probably months.
Also, I'll get into sorting out existing merc/soldiers animations today. Wish me luck
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163814]
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Tue, 06 November 2007 13:39
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Sibben |
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Messages:16
Registered:October 2000 Location: Sweden |
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I really think that JA2 deserves an overhaul like this, but the scale of this is quite an undertaking, and the complexity is quite easy to underestimate.
But, more importantly, if the characters are updated to a quality similar to FOT for instance, the rest of the game will look really bad. It would need to be accompanied by a complete overhaul of all tile sets and maps. That I guess is less of a risk in term of complexity, but it would take enormous amounts of work. In essence building the game again, which is something SF did not do for instance.
And, I personally think the quality of the characters is the least concern. It's the rest of the game that looks really dated in places. But, I'd love to see major things done with the game, and I'd be more than happy to help out.
BTW, lisac, that was a really informative post and some impressive research.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 November 2007 13:41] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163847]
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Wed, 07 November 2007 00:18
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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SibbenBut, more importantly, if the characters are updated to a quality similar to FOT for instance, the rest of the game will look really bad. That won't happen. The characters might get more detailed, but the degree of quality shown in FOT is far far away from the concept I'm suggesting (anti-aliased sprites are almost impossible to achieve with current code).
SibbenAnd, I personally think the quality of the characters is the least concern. It's the rest of the game that looks really dated in places. Right... But we need to start with something, and I've decided to try this (sprites) out first.
zedthe link is :http://www.fifengine.de/ I'm quite familiar with it, actually the FIFE project leader is my long-time contact. It's a nice alternative, but I'd like to stay in the "JA2 modding frame" for now.
zedanother option is to enhance today's engine, take example from other engines and port it to the engine code. Couldn't have it said better myself. Maybe not a classical "porting", but borrowing of the ideas/solutions for sure.
Anyway, I've updated the design document with (still incomplete) table of all animations, check out the end of my first post in this thread. In a few days I might come up with the first graphics... Depending on my free time
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163851]
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Wed, 07 November 2007 01:10
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Gotthard |
Messages:4
Registered:May 2006 Location: Houston, TX |
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Changing the number of directions from 8 to 16 shouldn't be much of an issue code-wise, but from the posts I've read, it is exceedingly time consuming to create a new animation. Even just changing it seems to take a while, so because it doesn't add much game play wise, I'd recommend leaving it out.
It's an excellent idea, and ambitious, but saying someone can pick up the coding (I'm still dusting off my c++), how time consuming would it be to remake every animation in the game? I believe it is possible to code new animations in already, yet we have few new animations implemented... would this sort of problem carry over?
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Civilian
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163902]
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Wed, 07 November 2007 17:19
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Gotthard |
Messages:4
Registered:May 2006 Location: Houston, TX |
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What I mean is that it sounds like the problem with new animations currently was that it was a huge PITA to make them, not to implement them code-wise. So even if we had new code for the animations, if there are new animations, it's a moot point. Good code changes have been made, but it seems there hasn't been as much work done with animations. Is it due to difficulty or lack of interest?
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Civilian
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #163904]
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Wed, 07 November 2007 17:42
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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GotthardIs it due to difficulty or lack of interest?
Both.
I was just sorting out the old animations and making descriptions for each of those, and it's quite a mess. There are those that are not used/implemented, while others repeat 2 or even 3 times... Some animations doesn't exist (e.g. female Kung-Fu fighting), the palettes (colours) capacity usage is at ~50% and the naming conventions are hieroglyphs. It's really hard to work with the mess the devs left behind.
The new sprites system should bring more structured animations, more colours, clear naming conventions and (the most important and the hardest part at the same time) - the layered sprites.
Edit: Just finished the default merc (S_MERC) table of animations, it can be found in the design document.
[Updated on: Wed, 07 November 2007 18:42] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #165483]
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Thu, 22 November 2007 22:28
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Pustekuchen |
Messages:2
Registered:March 2007 Location: Bavaria |
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thx scorp
i wrote a reply in your rr discussion, interested in new explosions?
[Updated on: Thu, 22 November 2007 22:31] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Civilian
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this project sounds great.[message #165543]
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Fri, 23 November 2007 19:11
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redgun |
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Messages:190
Registered:March 2007 Location: Austria |
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I'd like to contribute to it (but i can't code C++).
Does the Engine allow to zoom out? sometimes i'd like to see a bit more of the surroundings. a zooming out feature would also be useful, if the 'big maps project' gets realized.
changing to 16 or 32 directions would also sweet, but i guess thats going to be just too much work.
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: this project sounds great.[message #167555]
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Fri, 14 December 2007 08:59
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zed |
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Messages:42
Registered:November 2006 |
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hi kaiden,
i have looked all over the wiki no desing doc.... the most importent thing for me is to understand the layering in the code and the interface between them.
i have allready the latest SVN and it is compiling. two question though:
1. how can i get the SVN of the MAP editor - i think it will be the easiet way to understand the graphics engine from it.
2. where can i find more details on the tile engine of JA2 - i have read most of CNC_GUN post and started to go over the source code.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 December 2007 09:00] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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Re: this project sounds great.[message #167556]
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Fri, 14 December 2007 09:08
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Kindred |
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Messages:121
Registered:September 2006 Location: Australia, baby! |
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I know it's a lot of work for little gain, but would it be possible to make a BigMale bald set of sprites for Bull. He looks like he shaves his head in the portrait, but in the game he looks like he has a full head of red hair.
[Updated on: Fri, 14 December 2007 09:10] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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Re: this project sounds great.[message #167567]
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Fri, 14 December 2007 10:38
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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sure it would be possible. Even without editing any sprites. you require ja2pal editor and define a hair color that is identical to the skin color bull uses and then in proedit assign it to bull's hair.
i know it's not what you wanted to do, but it might cause a similar effect.
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Sergeant Major
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