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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184909]
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Mon, 12 May 2008 05:16
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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the scorpion...sometimes, "cute" proportions look "more pictoresque"....
Yeah, too bad we have soooo many pixels to work with, no?
KaerarThat looks much better. Do you have an ingame fully coloured version to compare?
Not yet, in two days (hopefully).
SlaxI used to dabble in 3d some time ago and learned that Lightwave isn't the way to go.
It's probably fine if you've used it enough but I just want to add that 3DSM or Maya might make some things a bit easier.
At least you'd get better control over shadows/shading
For this project, almost any 3D software (like Anim8tor) will do. The reason I've chosen LW3D, aside from it that I've been a rabid fan of this piece of software, is the fact I've been most skilled with it :vader:
Kaerar...Personally I'd use Maya as it generally is better for natural looking objects and lighting (plus subsequent animations), but thats me.
Personally, I hope you're gonna bite your tongue so hard to get unable to speak such heresy again! :trooper:
dave17...what do you think when u can make it that it is visible when u wear the ghillie suit?...
This feature has been discussed before and might be (eventually) implemented. But it'll take time. Humongous amount of it.
Thanks to everyone for your support and please don't mind my replies, I've drunk a few beers more than usually :cheers:
Gotta work tomorrow all day long, I'm about to have 3 days off after it, so keep your fingers crossed and stay tuned for the new updates.
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185099]
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Tue, 13 May 2008 17:10
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Shanga |
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Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000 Location: Danubia |
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@mauser: There's already an option in game that allows you to find the mercs ... mercs lights or something... it's selectable in game options. That adds a layer of light around you mercs. Now, imagine you switch that light to a better indicator, like a circle around your merc?
Sounds easy, don't know though if the respective lights are a tileset graphic or simply generated by the engine. A coder should be able to answer that.
The real breakthru of finding the proper 3d settings for generating JA2 sprites is adding a new, fresh "look" to the game. No more red-shirt/yellow-shirts/black-shirts. With some wizardry and a lot of work you could in theory add uniforms or at least bullet-proof vests to the bodies so they dont look like tourists. For example i'd remake the bodies like this:
1) yellow shirts - should wear a guard/police uniform, no body armour, no helmets
2) redshirts - should wear standard cammo army uniform, no body armour, with helmets
3) blackshirts - should wear black specops gear with body armor and helmets
Now, I dont remember if the standard body is shared among your mercs/civilans/enemies... If so, unless you change the code, we have a major show stopper (at least regarding my idea).
[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:11] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185113]
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Tue, 13 May 2008 18:23
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JaM1977 |
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Messages:35
Registered:May 2007 |
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finally somebody came with that idea!
Yes, standard soldiers shouldn't have armor,just helmets and some uniforms. On the other hand elites should be equipped with best stuff.
is it possible to give elites different equipment as it goes for other? isn't it currently in one file?
[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:25] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185123]
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Tue, 13 May 2008 19:42
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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if we call for 3d models, why don't we scream for individual skinning?
IF the anims engine gets re-written, which i think is necessary for the new GFX the way i understand it, then i see little need to maintain the same "palette-fills-blanket-colors" system that is in place right now in every instance.
what keeps somebody who'd build up in lisac's works to simply reskin his model and re-render the different scenes according to the steps lisac had already taken? i think the very hard initial work by lisac could help follow-up designers to make their own versions of custom models/ skins.
there would have to be a way to add them to the game though. I think the new engine whatsoever it should be "open" to such amendments.
the idea how the generate dozens of different uniforms has been brought to the plate a long time ago, it would be using a system similar to current camouflage effect but limited to the bodypart where the item causing the camo-like effect is worn, you'd get uniform depending on what characters wear with only a slight modification of how it currently works.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185131]
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Tue, 13 May 2008 20:51
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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nahh... soldiers usually look very boring and totally anti-cinematic
ideally, enemies would look like thugs (early on) and later on like soldiers while Mercs would have more or less individual looks. I mean flo wouldn't look like a soldier. Neither would haywire or bubba. The sleeveless shirts might actually fit these characters better than any uniform ever would
ever counted how many of the ja2 mercs truly have a military background (explicitly)? i think it's a minority especially if we consider MERC and the RPC's.
focussing ont he military theme seems a mistake IMO. Ja2 lives of how original and diverse their characters are and conveniently distances itself from the ever boring generic-soldier characters most combat-oriented games unfortunately restrict themselves to.
but i guess nothing would keep innovative people from doing additional work after the sheer "redesign" has been finished.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185138]
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Tue, 13 May 2008 22:17
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Shanga |
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Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000 Location: Danubia |
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I was reffering to ENEMY bodies too. But as I said, I am not totally sure they are two separate entities, my days of JA2 modding have ended years ago.
But ideally, if someone could externalize the code that controls the animation used for a specific merc (if I remember well there are only a few archetypes now, like STRONG, NORMAL, THIN), you could model a complete new look. Make Flo wear something to match ther IQ... give Ivan a Soviet army uniform, etc...
Speaking as a modder, I would love to be able to make bodies that fit the storyline. Like ragtag somalese milita for an African mod or nicaraguan rebels look for something placed in Latin America.
EDIT: Did some googling after modern mercenary "looks":
[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:27] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185237]
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Wed, 14 May 2008 21:08
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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yes it does
only bodytype (which is not really a bodytype in its own right but just a flag for some anims) restricted to the player only is the big male badass.
for the past couple o' years i was hoping that the big male badass "flag" would be changed to a bodytype in its own right so a new type can be used (independantly from the the Big Male)
interestingly, not all differences between big male and big male bad ass are actually implemented.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185239]
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Wed, 14 May 2008 21:20
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lisac |
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Messages:92
Registered:July 2006 Location: Austria |
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Again, red pixels of hair are being recognised as blood (and accordingly to that drawn in red ccolour by the engine). This problem is caused by the palette colour values, simply because the red "blood" nuances come before the red "hair" nuances, so during the conversion of the new sprites the pixels take rather the value before, than the one coming later. I already got a solution for it, don't worry... :doctor:
On the other note, the current sprite is a bit too tall comparing to the old one, right? I'm rendering the next (fixed) version right now, this shall be eliminated soon too. Also, the new sprite shall have a "belt" of some sort, I think it might look better for the characters lie Raven, where both the shirt and the pants are in the same colour. I've noticed the male characters already have one of those, so...
Also, I'm about to suggest a new naming convention (which is close to the old one), keep an eye for the updated design document! :animread:
@Shanga:
My current idea is to let the engine paint the base sprite - the body - as it does right now, and later we'll add more layers (vest, helmet, weapon...) which could be, *but don't have to be* painted by the JA2 graphics engine as well. this way the mercs and the soldiers won't look like tourists, I guess.
About the individual properties of mercs... One layer shall be assigned for HAIR/BEARD only, so in conjunction with the specific colours and the body type each merc already owns, it should be enough to make them at least a bit different than the "generics."
[Updated on: Sat, 22 October 2022 03:37] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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