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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #183815] Fri, 02 May 2008 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

There is more then one who suggested the FIFE engine and you can keep your sarcastic comments to yourself. I asked around in the FIFE forums and they said that it would be possible to use FIFE for JA2, but because I dont have any insights of the mod development and who is making what, I can not give them any detailed informations, so the dev team mebers themselfs have to ask the right questions instead of general jibber jabber of "is it possible?" and "Can it be done?" etc. posts.

You guys are developing the mod, not me, so what can I do as a single person? All I can do is aks around and find people who can code and ask them if they would be intrested int working on this mod.

And yes, Scorpion, proting it over to GTA 4 would be really aswome, that is an idea that we should look into and I
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183818] Fri, 02 May 2008 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
the "not moving a finger" comment was not aimed at you khor. i know you do/ did may things. The comment was aimed at people interrupting our custom animation discussions with their ideas of a "wet-dream-game", the crysis engine or whatever...
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #183819] Fri, 02 May 2008 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

But what does it help to add custom animations wehn you cant add them properly? Kohr said you guys need a coder, is that correct? Then I

[Updated on: Fri, 02 May 2008 17:42] by Moderator

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183822] Fri, 02 May 2008 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
lisac asked a few simple questions over a day ago that are still unanswered. We need at least a little cooperation or this will likely never happen.

It is a great idea. Bravo to lisac for initially bringing it up and hooray to anyone who works on this (whether the work turns out to be mothballed or not).

I certainly don't want to poo poo this idea but the simpler and more practicle we make it the more likely it will actually happen. Remeber, most people here have very limited part time to do this sort of thing. Even when I think I have lots of part time my infant son sometimes decides it's time to check out what daddy's doing and my attention goes to where it is most needed. I'm sure just about everyone else has similar factors placed on their free time.

We need a streamlined approach to this or maybe a huge ammount of coding work initially (porting to a new graphics engine) followed by a lot of porting of Ja2 images to the new format. It is much easier for me to concieve of this getting done using the existing graphics engine simply because it is familliar territory both to animators and coders but I may not be seeing something clearly here.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #183839] Fri, 02 May 2008 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

Yeah, but you people didnt even looked into FIFE at all. No one of you guys seemd to have posted a question in the FIFE forums and the thread link was posted more then oince here. I ask me, how much more streamlined it can get, really? Yes, its work, a lot of work, but its the same amount of work as fiddeling around with the existing engine.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183845] Fri, 02 May 2008 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Because we would have to code the game to use another graphics engine.


Since I don't know how to do that it would be a waste of time.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183852] Fri, 02 May 2008 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
guess different people are talking different issues here...

i think the one(s) who actually care for the fife engine should be pursuing this very promising approach as well as they can.

The others migth still do things to which they can contribute. Me, i can't and thus i won't contribute to the entire "let's port ja2 to engine xy" issue. So when i discuss a different issue, i'd like to be left in peace about the engine discussion.

it is adifferent matter and i think it has it's own thread, doesn't it?
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183862] Fri, 02 May 2008 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Probably right.

Porting Ja2 to another graphics engine is/ should be / another topic so it can either be adressed or ignored by the actual coder who would have to do some things to make that happen.

If someone can get a guy from the FIFE boards or wherever to take on the job that is great. But maybe this thread should be used to discuss things that might actually get done and I have not heard any coder say they are even very interested in this project let alone in porting to another graphics engine.

But if there is a better way to do it (without having to do away with Ja2's physics engine) it sounds like it is worth a try.

Start a thread and see if a coder replies.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183877] Fri, 02 May 2008 22:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
Yeah, but you people didnt even looked into FIFE at all. No one of you guys seemd to have posted a question in the FIFE forums and the thread link was posted more then once here.

Really?

mvBarracuda, FIFE Forum
No ja 1.13 devs contacted us directly AFAIK

Is a question on the forum not direct enough?

Quote:
No human resources available.

Was there anyone else working on this, besides me. And since i am busy with another project right now, this one has to fall short.
I can't work on two projects at the same time. So, when i'm done with the other project i can start to work an this one again, unless someone else start before.

---

Anyway, i can tell you something about the graphics system. Basically speaking, there are video objects that represent video memory and hold
data like images or framebuffers. When you draw something you have to do three steps
1. Load image data
2. Blit (copy) that data into the framebuffer.
2. Delete image data.

Our image data is stored in sti files and every sti file can contain multiple subimages. An animation is such a sti file. So, an animation consists
of a number of images, but it has also some timing information attached to it, i.e. when a certain subimage has to be drawn.

The timing information for every animation is hardcoded and all image data for ane animation is in one file only. Thus the animation data structure in
the code only references this one file (or the loaded image data from that file). When you render an animation, you know which subimage you need
(because of the timing information) and you just blit that image into the framebuffer.

Now, if you would want to draw multiple layers, you would need a list or vector of "sti files" (ideally with an equal number of subimages).
And where you drew one subimage before, now you have to draw a subimage from all "sti files" in your list. When you change your weapon in the
game you also change one (or more) "sti files" in the list. Changing other animation control structures should not be necessary. And if your
datastructures can hold multiple image files they can hold only one file too, i.e. the one layer case is a special case of the multiple layer case.

So, we have to initialize an animation properly, i.e. find image files that belong together. Rendering should be straight forward. Changing weapons
and armor and stuff like that could be a little tricky, since these changes are executed somewhere outside the animation or rendering code.

Another tricky part is to ensure that you can work with one AND with multiple layers at the same time, otherwise you would have to redo all animations
(and then find out that there was a misconception somewhere and you have to redo all animations again after that misconception was fixed).

The determination which files "belong together" or are part a of a multilayer image is important too and we have to decide what the filenames should be
and where these files should be located in our directory structure.

---

So, on the one hand not thaaaaat hard, but still requires some (a lot) of work and some problem solving abilities when something doesn't work as described.



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183880] Fri, 02 May 2008 23:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Thanx for the response man.

Your current project is - in my opinion - waaayyyy more important than this one and I do not want to see you get disracted.

I do; however, have one question that might help animators decide on what route to take:

Do you think it is a better idea to do the layers or to make seperate animations for every gun type for instance?

Bear in mind that if armour were also to be implemented as new animations we would then have to make a seperate animation for every concievable gun and armour combination.

I think I already know the answer but there may be people starting to work on these animation even now and it would be good to point them in the right direction.

But even if they do start making full animations we could always erase anything but the layer at a later date. So maybe even this question can wait.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183890] Fri, 02 May 2008 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
You have to consider the distinguishable and variable objects in an image( like bodytype, weapon, armour, hair etc.). Some of these objects can be
varied by using different palettes, others can not. In these other cases you have to create an animation for every combination of objects.
If you want a flexible system, i would propose layers, because then the combinations would be done at runtime (let the computer do the hard work).

And i can offer you this. Since i can render animations (to a certain extent) in my own code already, i could easily extend it to render animations in a layered
fashion. So you can create some example layers and send them to me and we can try out how it looks before we start to integrate layers into the ja2 engine.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183911] Sat, 03 May 2008 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
BirdFlu
And i can offer you this.

OK, I got you now, you won't escape me this time :shake:
BirdFlu
Since i can render animations (to a certain extent) in my own code already, i could easily extend it to render animations in a layered fashion. So you can create some example layers and send them to me and we can try out how it looks before we start to integrate layers into the ja2 engine.

Dammit man, I'm starting the whole GFX thing next week... You need layers? You got'em!

Anyway, on a side note, how long should it take to finish the first project (estimated)?

Thanks for sticking to us till the end Wink
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183923] Sat, 03 May 2008 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Thats really good to hear lisac and Birdflu. Wish I had the time to offer some help to you guys. Instead I'll just offer my support.

@scorp, sorry if my ideas about using other engines cause you annoyance, but I don't see the point in updating to and already out of date engine just for the sake of it. If we would update the engine it may as well be to something at least semi-current and FIFE is never going to be that. And trust me if I had the money available I would fund a full scale update to JA2, though there may be licensing issues. Who cares, its almost abandonware now for as much as SF care about the series and the abomination thats coming. But hey its all hypothetical so doesn't matter.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183930] Sat, 03 May 2008 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
@Birdflu

It is really great to hear that layering animations is really no more difficult than adding a new animations (if I read you correctly).

It may not be necessary to use the base weaponless animations I mentioned earlier. It may perhaps be possible to instead use some colour to block any part of the silhouette that extends past the silhouette of the weapon.

In other words, if you are replacing a rifle animation with a gun that is smaller in silhouette we may be able to use some colour to block out the parts of the rifle that extend past the new weapon image.

What do others think?

The alternative would be having to make some base animations with the rifle silhouettes erased so that any pixel that extends passed the desired silhouette would not be a problem.

I am thinking of first making some 'guns floating in the air' animations that would be used to layer on top of the existing rifle animations. The method I think that will work is to use the exact frame size of the existing animation (although it might be possible to just use the top half or so of the frame?) but place the gun image (or partial image as the animation might require) exactly where it needs to be xy wise to layer into the animation.

It would be very helpful if I could find a free imaging tool that supports layers. I may even be able to get one that is not free - any suggestions?

I'm pretty sure lisac will beat me to the first animation set but I may be able to help.

Any ideas that might correct any misconception I have would be appreciated.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183939] Sat, 03 May 2008 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PFM

 
Messages:22
Registered:July 2006
Location: Czech Republic
Khor1255

It may not be necessary to use the base weaponless animations I mentioned earlier. It may perhaps be possible to instead use some colour to block any part of the silhouette that extends past the silhouette of the weapon.

In other words, if you are replacing a rifle animation with a gun that is smaller in silhouette we may be able to use some colour to block out the parts of the rifle that extend past the new weapon image.

What do others think?


I don't understand. Are you talking about layer animations with and without weapon? You said we can shorten current weapon? But muzzle animation is in the file so we would need to shorten the weapon, not "block out" part of it. Or you are taliing about "blocking out" weapon part of animation(layer one) and blocking human part of animation(layer two). I'm lost Sad

Khor1255

It would be very helpful if I could find a free imaging tool that supports layers. I may even be able to get one that is not free - any suggestions?


sorry I can't help you
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #183942] Sat, 03 May 2008 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Khor1255

It would be very helpful if I could find a free imaging tool that supports layers. I may even be able to get one that is not free - any suggestions?


are you talking about an graphics program like photoshop?

then get paint.net! http://www.getpaint.net

it

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183951] Sat, 03 May 2008 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
The weapon blocking idea is gonna cause issues as PFM points out the muzzle flash will be in the wrong place. So stick a P90 image in the mercs hands and the flash will be many pixels out due to size differences.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183953] Sat, 03 May 2008 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
make the muzzle flash part of the same layer as the gun.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183961] Sat, 03 May 2008 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Right.

You obviously have to get rid of any part of the existing gun image that is going to stick out into your new image.

The options for doing this are:

A)first make a base image of all merc animations with a rifle (some smaller weapon animation may have to be redone as well. Maybe not) erasing any part of the gun that might exterd passed the sihouette of the smallest new gun image layer.
Make your 'floating' weapon animations.
Then add the gun layer over the rifle-less 'base' animation..

= simple but a lot of extra work because all the base animation would have to be redone.


B)make silhouettes of each weapon type but use a different transparency colour for areas of your weapon layer that tells the program to overwrite any 'underlying' pixel with the transparency colour. This way any longer or wider part of the old image would overwritten by background transparency where necessary. It could be as easy as the transparency using it's own palette colour but just adding a few pixels of the base transparency colour to any area the old rifle image protrudes passed your new silhouette.

= maybe the better way but I'm not sure if it is possible


In either case you would - of course add the mussle flash at the end of each animation direction just as it is done in the existing animations.


Any ideas?

Could the second method work or should I start 'erasing' rifles from animations?

Is that more clear?

[Updated on: Sat, 03 May 2008 22:10] by Moderator

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183983] Sun, 04 May 2008 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
Khor1255
The options for doing this are:

A)...
B)...

I've already made a concept how it all should look like, it's in the updated "design document". It should be something similar to the A) option. I've also updated the new filename convention...

The problem is, I didn't finish all of it and it should be available in a few days. I'll let all of you know about it as soon as it gets online.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #183989] Sun, 04 May 2008 04:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
That's cool.

You don't think 'b' is possible or is it just problematic/undesireable?

No argument intended. You are the leader or this project as far as I am concerned. But if there is a simpler solution it would make the concept more likely to happen.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184005] Sun, 04 May 2008 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
I don't think that option B is possible for more than a handful of objects, because then every object that is encoded in an image depends on
all other objects. So if you change or fix one pixel for one object, you might break something for another object.

----------------

I would propose that you guys start small, work on one animation maybe even only one direction. So you can create prototypes faster and we can
test them earlier. If we will run into some problems then it is easier to change small prototypes. Once the basic creation process is established,
we can move on to larger or longer animations with multiple layers.


BTW, how do you plan to "assemble" the animations. I suppose it will be one layer per file, right? And how do you want to get the results back?
There are more or less obvious options, but i will let you guys "vote" first.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184019] Sun, 04 May 2008 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Would colour remaps be an option that can be added too? Similar to how Diablo 2 works so you could add in say (total speculation here) a golden desert eagle and it chooses the colour map for the gun image (say a total of 64 colour maps possible for each gun) to match the equipped weapon? 64 would be more than enough and is just an arbitrary number chosen for example purposes.

The other thing is are we going to enable a different file type? Preferably one allowing multiple layers/pages with full 24 bit colour and transparency.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #184023] Sun, 04 May 2008 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Kaerar

The other thing is are we going to enable a different file type? Preferably one allowing multiple layers/pages with full 24 bit colour and transparency.


well, if you

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184027] Sun, 04 May 2008 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Agreed Very Happy


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184037] Sun, 04 May 2008 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
@ Birdflu

Overlapping layers that sometimes run into the weapon silhouette (I can see vests and helmets doing this a lot) is a great reason not to use option b.

That had not occoured to me.

Yikes...and thanks.

I think the idea is to start with the base animations depicting the sprite with the weapon 'erased' from the image.

Then a seperate file (seperate file name as well) with 'floating' weapons.

Please correct me if I am mistaken here. It is important.

lisac is actually working on this and says he'll get back to us in a few days. In order to keep the work from being redundant I plan on working on whatever he does not work on (preferably something that can wait since even when I have the time I work slow).


I do not understand what you mean when you say 'how do you want to get the results back'? Do you mean how do we want to test our animations?


If that is the question I would ask for a test .exe that runs the new layer so we can make adjustments 'on the spot' so to speak.

I would also suggest that if there is any possibility that MORE than two layers (the base animation and the weapon animation for example) can cause an unforseen problem down the road we might also try just one other layer early on. But this is more of a coder/filename concern so I'll of course defer to you about that.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184074] Sun, 04 May 2008 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
I think the idea is to start with the base animations depicting the sprite with the weapon 'erased' from the image.
Then a seperate file (seperate file name as well) with 'floating' weapons.

That is what i was thinking.
Is it possible that the displacement values for 'floating' weapons could/should vary for different body types?

Quote:
I would ask for a test .exe that runs the new layer so we can make adjustments 'on the spot' so to speak.

I would say that you send me the layer images for the first tests. I will make the necessary adjustments to my program and make sure that
it doesn't crash or something. Then i can give you the exe so that you can actually work.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184075] Sun, 04 May 2008 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I don't think the floating animations could be completely recycled due to likely differences of stance and height, etc. With any luck a very small amount of adjusting will be all it takes but that still means seperate layer files for each body type. Maybe not.

I would really like to hear from lisac here before I do anything to prevent redundant or erroneous work.

He has likely not visited here today. I think he is Austrian which means English is maybe not his first language. These boards may not his main point of contact with the Ja community. I would venture to say Ja Basis might be but that is a guess.


In any event, if I don't hear something from him in the next day I will work on a standing female animation (probably the one where she is holding the weapon then raises and fires since I think that would have all the essential elements) erasing the weapon. I will then make a floating smg animation since this should look remarkably different than the generic long rifle silhouette in existing animations.

I would also like to make a helmet layer but if you do not want to get in to that yet even for testing purposes I understand.

Remember that I work pretty damn slow so....

I hope in the meantime lisac has something.

[Updated on: Sun, 04 May 2008 23:10] by Moderator

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184076] Sun, 04 May 2008 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
I would also like to make a helmet layer but if you do not want to get in to that yet even for testing purposes I understand.

Don't understand me wrong, you can do any animation you like. It would be even better for me as i can test my program with more examples (and eliminate
more bugs). I was just thinking that you may not want to do redundant work when some problems arise and their fixing requires redoing animation files.

I don't expect any problems that would have these consequences, but you never know.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184077] Sun, 04 May 2008 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Cool. I'll keep it just guns for now.

I just thought giving you one more test layer might help to ensure that multiple layers would work.


But I guess if you say 2 layers are no different than 10 as far as the coding goes I don't need to do that just yet.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184082] Mon, 05 May 2008 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
But I guess if you say 2 layers are no different than 10 as far as the coding goes I don't need to do that just yet.

i was not plannig to restrict the number of layers, so i guess 2 would be no different than 10 or N.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184085] Mon, 05 May 2008 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I don't think you understand me. I was offering to make the extra layer in case more than two layers might be necessary for your code testing purposes.

If you can get by with just the base sprite animation and a gun layer that is better for me. I just did not want to find out later that additional layers were going to pose a problem.


It sounds like you already answered that.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184089] Mon, 05 May 2008 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
I was offering to make the extra layer in case more than two layers might be necessary for your code testing purposes.

The more the better.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184105] Mon, 05 May 2008 01:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
BirdFlu
Quote:
I was offering to make the extra layer in case more than two layers might be necessary for your code testing purposes.

The more the better.


Like a menage a trios? :playboy: :biglaugh:


Ok, I'll byte, where is Lampukistan? :headscratch:


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184113] Mon, 05 May 2008 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
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It is a crisis-ridden country in the Zepettel-region 6000 km east of Tuttlingen.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184120] Mon, 05 May 2008 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
Damn, people, I let you alone for 24 hours and you fill the thread with 20+ posts... Jokes aside, I'm finished with this hard-working weekend, time to do something useful for the game.

"Floating weapons" - there's problem with those. Actually, we need everything floating. According to my original idea, each "merc"-type sprite should consist of several "floating" areas. The initial value was 6 (head/hair/beard, torso/vest, arms/hands, legs/feet, weapon, helmet), meaning 6 layers. Which means that a weapon held by female merc PROBABLY WON'T be the same layer as the same weapon held by strong male merc. I need more time to think this through...

This makes the filenames convention very complex, also there's a bunch of graphical stuff to be added, but the results are "optimal".

Gotta go to bed now, I'll continue tomorrow.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184135] Mon, 05 May 2008 06:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Unless the silhouettes happened to line up perfectly for two different body types I don't see a possibility of using the same layer twice.

The naming conventions might be as easy as a progressively higher number or letter at the end of each animation file name to represent layer 2, 3, 4, etc.

Possible?
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184201] Mon, 05 May 2008 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
Khor1255
Unless the silhouettes happened to line up perfectly for two different body types I don't see a possibility of using the same layer twice.

Yes, there will be occurrences where this should be possible.

Khor1255
The naming conventions might be as easy as a progressively higher number or letter at the end of each animation file name to represent layer 2, 3, 4, etc.

Possible?

Actually, I've already made a concept how it should look like. It might look confusing, so feel free to ask/suggest/flame/whatever.

Everyone, the updated version of the design document is available. What's added:
-New filenames convention
-Filenames example for a 7-layered female merc sprite
-Table with the new names for the female merc(s)
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184202] Mon, 05 May 2008 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Since you are here, what would be a good file or set of files for me to work on?

I don't want our work to 'overlap' because that would be a lot of wasted man hours.

I was thinking of working with the female sprites but really just want to work on anything you are going to take some time getting around to. Hopefully you work much faster than me.

It sounds like even though he is busy with another project Birdflu is wanting to go ahead with this right away (or at least start coding for it) but needs one base animation with one layer to use in his tests.

If you have something already you might want to send it to him.

But in any event please tell what file or group of files you are going to wait on doing and I will start there.

Thanx man.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184205] Mon, 05 May 2008 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:451
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
What if we would define "attachment coordinates" for layers or objects in an animation. Then we could use these "displacements" to position
for example weapons in the hands of a merc. Different body types would have different attachment coordinates and thus could reuse weapon layers.
This probably wouldn't work for vests, because they vary in size (?) depending on the body type.

I think if we could spare some work by using some tricks or shortcuts, then it's worth trying, and we will finish earlier.

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