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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #184565] Fri, 09 May 2008 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
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Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

The left one is the 3D modle, the right one is the orginal sprite.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184569] Fri, 09 May 2008 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
New one is on the left and original is on the right Mauser Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184570] Fri, 09 May 2008 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Ya beat me Havoc lol


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184589] Fri, 09 May 2008 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:445
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Now go edit one post and use the delete function on the other. I'll delete this one too after that.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184613] Fri, 09 May 2008 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Can't delete as you replied. Thats gotta be one of the few double posts I have done Sad


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #184618] Fri, 09 May 2008 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
Registered:August 2006
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moderators to the front!

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184622] Fri, 09 May 2008 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
hrmpf. hundreds of spam postings each of them and all of a sudden, a double-post bothers anybody


+1ii


btw Lisac what you say is something that bothers me as well. sometimes, 3d character models look "odd" even though being nicely 3d and all

sometimes, "cute" proportions look "more pictoresque" and also allow for more detail (i might want to mention your own gun graphics for this lisac)

but other than that ja2 speciality, i think Gina comes pretty close to the ja2 model.



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184623] Fri, 09 May 2008 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
Thanks for the feedbacks...

I've continued to work on the matching of colours/shades, and here are the results:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8750/comparesb2.png

Hopefully it looks much better than the old one. I must put all of this on ice during this weekend, sorry. RL bothers me too much...

See ya in a few days.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184626] Fri, 09 May 2008 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
That looks like much nicer Lisac. Smile


As for the double postings, I don't see anything other than useless off topic comments like usual. Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184700] Fri, 09 May 2008 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niksarass

 
Messages:48
Registered:January 2008
Location: France
lisac


http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/8750/comparesb2.png

.


We are entering a new step in JA1.13 developping.

Congratulations Lisac and go on with that quality work.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184702] Sat, 10 May 2008 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Great work mate. Checked the stuff you did for the other big favourite of mine, Fallout, and all I can say is we're damn happy to have you working on JA2.

Make sure you document each step so in the end we can have a full guide on creating new sprites. Heck if it works so well in Lightwave 3d I might get back to modelling. But for now I am happy watching the master at work... shhh.. everyone... quiet...

[Updated on: Sat, 10 May 2008 00:04] by Moderator



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184724] Sat, 10 May 2008 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Location: Australia :D
That looks much better. Do you have an ingame fully coloured version to compare?

The GINA pose is a lot better than the original (I know I am gonna have to adjust my view for the new models cos I don't mind the old ones too much except the large male one!)


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184733] Sat, 10 May 2008 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
The good thing about this community is that most started projects get finished, eventually.
I'm just so stoked about this. Glee!

I used to dabble in 3d some time ago and learned that Lightwave isn't the way to go.
It's probably fine if you've used it enough but I just want to add that 3DSM or Maya might make some things a bit easier.

At least you'd get better control over shadows/shading Smile
Animation could also be stepped up a bit. You could "cheat" with 3DSM and use the walking biped function it's got integrated. No need to bother with those those pesky leg animations Very Happy

Oh well. This probably wasn't a very helpful reply, sorry Razz

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184747] Sat, 10 May 2008 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BallerDave

 
Messages:74
Registered:April 2008
Location: Ze land of ze sheep, Dubl...

wow, last time i looked into this thread was a month ago or so. now take a look at all that. u guys are just great, u should get paid for this or something.

soon as this gets finished theres gonna be another ja2 orgy Smile
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184761] Sat, 10 May 2008 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Location: Australia :D
I think lisac is relatively fluent in LW3D so lets not confuse the issue with other programs. Personally I'd use Maya as it generally is better for natural looking objects and lighting (plus subsequent animations), but thats me.

I am just happy its going ahead (slowly but thats better than backwards Wink ) and people are willing to help Very Happy


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184765] Sat, 10 May 2008 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niksarass

 
Messages:48
Registered:January 2008
Location: France
dave17
wow, last time i looked into this thread was a month ago or so. now take a look at all that. u guys are just great, u should get paid for this or something.

soon as this gets finished theres gonna be another ja2 orgy Smile


Some years ago i was wuch a huge fan of JA that when i knowed there would be a JA3, i was just overwhelmed. I would overplay it like a fool even if objectively a bad game, i was such a JA fan.

But now with that much improvements that have been and are to make on JA2 im not even sure i will like JA3.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #184772] Sat, 10 May 2008 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

I
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184806] Sat, 10 May 2008 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BallerDave

 
Messages:74
Registered:April 2008
Location: Ze land of ze sheep, Dubl...

hey guys. what do you think when u can make it that it is visible when u wear the ghillie suit? i kno it would take an awful lot of work but it would just look amazing. what do u guys think? http://txfowlers.com/images%2Fproducts%2FProducts%20II%2FGSGLV%20CASS%20JKIT%20COL%20CU%2FCAMO_UNLIMITED_JACKAL_GHILLIE_SUIT.jpg

[Updated on: Sat, 10 May 2008 22:47] by Moderator

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #184909] Mon, 12 May 2008 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
the scorpion
...sometimes, "cute" proportions look "more pictoresque"....

Yeah, too bad we have soooo many pixels to work with, no?

Kaerar
That looks much better. Do you have an ingame fully coloured version to compare?

Not yet, in two days (hopefully).

Slax
I used to dabble in 3d some time ago and learned that Lightwave isn't the way to go.
It's probably fine if you've used it enough but I just want to add that 3DSM or Maya might make some things a bit easier.

At least you'd get better control over shadows/shading Smile

For this project, almost any 3D software (like Anim8tor) will do. The reason I've chosen LW3D, aside from it that I've been a rabid fan of this piece of software, is the fact I've been most skilled with it :vader:

Kaerar
...Personally I'd use Maya as it generally is better for natural looking objects and lighting (plus subsequent animations), but thats me.

Personally, I hope you're gonna bite your tongue so hard to get unable to speak such heresy again! :trooper:

dave17
...what do you think when u can make it that it is visible when u wear the ghillie suit?...

This feature has been discussed before and might be (eventually) implemented. But it'll take time. Humongous amount of it.

Thanks to everyone for your support and please don't mind my replies, I've drunk a few beers more than usually :cheers:

Gotta work tomorrow all day long, I'm about to have 3 days off after it, so keep your fingers crossed and stay tuned for the new updates.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185087] Tue, 13 May 2008 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
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Location: Australia :D
Lol I have played with LW3D and Maya, still prefer Rhino3D for making models then exporting to whichever. But LW is very powerful in one way and Maya in another. Having learnt more Maya than LW I would choose Maya Razz

Anyway look forward to seeing the new stuff Smile

Have a good one Very Happy


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #185093] Tue, 13 May 2008 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
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Lt.Havoc
I

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #185095] Tue, 13 May 2008 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
one more thing i thought of: would it be possible to add another kind of layer to the sprites, which hives them some sort of bright, clearly visible outline? or maybe a colored marker above the head like in the sims? so you can find your mercs position easyer at night and in dense foliage?
or maybe make their silhuette pulse from light to dark or red or something.

of course all optional and only per hotkey.

but i think this would improve the ergonomics of the game quite a bit.


☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185099] Tue, 13 May 2008 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@mauser: There's already an option in game that allows you to find the mercs ... mercs lights or something... it's selectable in game options. That adds a layer of light around you mercs. Now, imagine you switch that light to a better indicator, like a circle around your merc?
Sounds easy, don't know though if the respective lights are a tileset graphic or simply generated by the engine. A coder should be able to answer that.

The real breakthru of finding the proper 3d settings for generating JA2 sprites is adding a new, fresh "look" to the game. No more red-shirt/yellow-shirts/black-shirts. With some wizardry and a lot of work you could in theory add uniforms or at least bullet-proof vests to the bodies so they dont look like tourists. For example i'd remake the bodies like this:

1) yellow shirts - should wear a guard/police uniform, no body armour, no helmets
2) redshirts - should wear standard cammo army uniform, no body armour, with helmets
3) blackshirts - should wear black specops gear with body armor and helmets

Now, I dont remember if the standard body is shared among your mercs/civilans/enemies... If so, unless you change the code, we have a major show stopper (at least regarding my idea).

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 17:11] by Moderator



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185109] Tue, 13 May 2008 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KeldorKatarn

 
Messages:38
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany
Whaaat? No more redshirts?? Crying or Very Sad That's blasphemy! j/k Wink
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #185111] Tue, 13 May 2008 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:799
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KeldorKatarn
Whaaat? No more redshirts?? Crying or Very Sad That's blasphemy! j/k Wink


nope, that

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185113] Tue, 13 May 2008 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JaM1977

 
Messages:36
Registered:May 2007
finally somebody came with that idea!

Yes, standard soldiers shouldn't have armor,just helmets and some uniforms. On the other hand elites should be equipped with best stuff.

is it possible to give elites different equipment as it goes for other? isn't it currently in one file?

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 18:25] by Moderator

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185114] Tue, 13 May 2008 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:445
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
no redshirts no ja Sad
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185115] Tue, 13 May 2008 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
How about red arm-bands, yellow, black. Smile Or helmets if they wear any or bandana's if they don't. Or........


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185118] Tue, 13 May 2008 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
how about we get Armani or Gaultier to design a little something :venus: :openmouth:


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185120] Tue, 13 May 2008 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BallerDave

 
Messages:74
Registered:April 2008
Location: Ze land of ze sheep, Dubl...

how about we stop this sarkasm and stop behaving like children?
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185122] Tue, 13 May 2008 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Who says Arulco Army cannot have red uniforms? But those must look like uniforms, not T-shirts!
PS: The bandana idea is already used in one of those scrapped JA3 projects.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 19:32] by Moderator



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185123] Tue, 13 May 2008 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
if we call for 3d models, why don't we scream for individual skinning?

IF the anims engine gets re-written, which i think is necessary for the new GFX the way i understand it, then i see little need to maintain the same "palette-fills-blanket-colors" system that is in place right now in every instance.

what keeps somebody who'd build up in lisac's works to simply reskin his model and re-render the different scenes according to the steps lisac had already taken? i think the very hard initial work by lisac could help follow-up designers to make their own versions of custom models/ skins.

there would have to be a way to add them to the game though. I think the new engine whatsoever it should be "open" to such amendments.





the idea how the generate dozens of different uniforms has been brought to the plate a long time ago, it would be using a system similar to current camouflage effect but limited to the bodypart where the item causing the camo-like effect is worn, you'd get uniform depending on what characters wear with only a slight modification of how it currently works.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185130] Tue, 13 May 2008 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JaM1977

 
Messages:36
Registered:May 2007
just make them look like soldiers and not like a basketball team...
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185131] Tue, 13 May 2008 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1842
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
nahh... soldiers usually look very boring and totally anti-cinematic


ideally, enemies would look like thugs (early on) and later on like soldiers while Mercs would have more or less individual looks. I mean flo wouldn't look like a soldier. Neither would haywire or bubba. The sleeveless shirts might actually fit these characters better than any uniform ever would

ever counted how many of the ja2 mercs truly have a military background (explicitly)? i think it's a minority especially if we consider MERC and the RPC's.

focussing ont he military theme seems a mistake IMO. Ja2 lives of how original and diverse their characters are and conveniently distances itself from the ever boring generic-soldier characters most combat-oriented games unfortunately restrict themselves to.


but i guess nothing would keep innovative people from doing additional work after the sheer "redesign" has been finished.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185133] Tue, 13 May 2008 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JaM1977

 
Messages:36
Registered:May 2007
i was talking about Yelow/Red/Gray shirts... I'm fine with how Mercs looks, just those unmilitary collors drive me crazy... Very Happy why we dont replace them with Green/Khaki/Grey instead?
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185135] Tue, 13 May 2008 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
how about we stop this sarkasm and stop behaving like children?


nyah , nyah :blah:

anyway , there's a c in sarcasm..... :/


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185138] Tue, 13 May 2008 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I was reffering to ENEMY bodies too. But as I said, I am not totally sure they are two separate entities, my days of JA2 modding have ended years ago.


But ideally, if someone could externalize the code that controls the animation used for a specific merc (if I remember well there are only a few archetypes now, like STRONG, NORMAL, THIN), you could model a complete new look. Make Flo wear something to match ther IQ... give Ivan a Soviet army uniform, etc...

Speaking as a modder, I would love to be able to make bodies that fit the storyline. Like ragtag somalese milita for an African mod or nicaraguan rebels look for something placed in Latin America.

EDIT: Did some googling after modern mercenary "looks":

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/04/weekinreview/Glanz583.jpg

http://ocap.ca/files/easterndoormasked.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:27] by Moderator



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185140] Tue, 13 May 2008 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
I like the James Bond suit look. Smile)))))))))


Edit: You could have different colored ties for different merc levels. Smile))))))

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 23:00] by Moderator



Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185141] Tue, 13 May 2008 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BallerDave

 
Messages:74
Registered:April 2008
Location: Ze land of ze sheep, Dubl...

Marlboro Man
Edit: You could have different colored ties for different merc levels. Smile))))))


lol. arent we getting ahead of ourselves with ties?

i like the idea of the individual merc looks, still i think that armor should be visible when worn. otherwise its just foolish to assume that a money-making and self-respecting mercenary would leave the house without armor
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185142] Tue, 13 May 2008 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Shanga

 
Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@ MM - Lol I was sure one of you jokers would say that Very Happy But the posibilities are endless. You dont even have to search for ideas, the people have already added different looks thru inventory items, they just dont show up in game.

EDIT: Lol, the bald one on the right does look like he's carrying a weapon on his back ,doesnt he? hehe...

[Updated on: Tue, 13 May 2008 23:13] by Moderator



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