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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185153]

Wed, 14 May 2008 01:34

Mauser

Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany

guys, all that is fine and dandy. but let

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☆★GL★☆

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185163]

Wed, 14 May 2008 02:33

Marlboro Man

Messages:1238
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA

I say. Bring all idea's to the front now, while it's all fresh in everyone's minds.

Besides, I know Lisac's work is going to be good. And having thoughts and idea's floating aound now may help in the process as well, and may help from having to back-track. Gee I wish I would have thought of that earlier, ah well, too late now.

[Updated on: Wed, 14 May 2008 02:44] by Moderator

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #185164]

Wed, 14 May 2008 02:38

Mauser

Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany

if you say so Marlman.

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☆★GL★☆

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185218]

Wed, 14 May 2008 19:03

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

I've been re-modeling the Gina for a few hours and adjusted the rig a bit, here's how it looks like now:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/7310/comparerj3.png

I'll finish the first "regular" animation set soon (F_BRETH2), so everyone can test it in-game.

[Updated on: Wed, 14 May 2008 19:07] by Moderator

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185221]

Wed, 14 May 2008 19:14

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Oh, cannot wait Smile

looks like you added nice details to the weapon.

Btw, I've tried storming my memory about the content of Anims.slf and there ARE separate animations for enemies. Actually the animations are divided like this:

3 male sets - used by mercs and RPCs like terrorists
3 female sets - used by mercs and RPCs like Queen
a couple of civilian we can ignore so far
a couple for misc stuff like robot, bugs and vehicles
3 sets for each type of militia
3 sets for each type of enemy
(*) might be an extra set for Hicks faction

Now... if i could find SLF Explore and check this... But if I am right it looks good.

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185227]

Wed, 14 May 2008 19:51

Majek

Messages:442
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia

Use Dragon UnPACKer 5 to extract .slf files if you can't find SLF explore Smile

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185232]

Wed, 14 May 2008 20:17

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

@majek - thanks for the idea, great tool.

Well I was wrong it seems. Anims.sfl has this:

- ANIMALS
- CIVS
- CORPSES
- F_MERC
- M_MERC
- S_MERC
- MONSTERS
- VEHICLES

There are some variations inside F/S/M merc files, but I cannot remember which is which. I'll look into it tonight. So far looks like JA2 uses the same 3 body frames (female, strong male and normal male) for all RPCs, with color variations (stored elsewhere) for factions and stuff.

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185237]

Wed, 14 May 2008 21:08

the scorpion

Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

yes it does

only bodytype (which is not really a bodytype in its own right but just a flag for some anims) restricted to the player only is the big male badass.

for the past couple o' years i was hoping that the big male badass "flag" would be changed to a bodytype in its own right so a new type can be used (independantly from the the Big Male)

interestingly, not all differences between big male and big male bad ass are actually implemented.

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185239]

Wed, 14 May 2008 21:20

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

[color:#660000]Example of one new animation in the VERY EARLY stage of development (F_BRETH2.STI - female.idle.with.rifle) DOWNLOAD HERE(ZIP ARCHIVE)[/color]

Again, red pixels of hair are being recognised as blood (and accordingly to that drawn in red ccolour by the engine). This problem is caused by the palette colour values, simply because the red "blood" nuances come before the red "hair" nuances, so during the conversion of the new sprites the pixels take rather the value before, than the one coming later. I already got a solution for it, don't worry... :doctor:

On the other note, the current sprite is a bit too tall comparing to the old one, right? I'm rendering the next (fixed) version right now, this shall be eliminated soon too. Also, the new sprite shall have a "belt" of some sort, I think it might look better for the characters lie Raven, where both the shirt and the pants are in the same colour. I've noticed the male characters already have one of those, so...

Also, I'm about to suggest a new naming convention (which is close to the old one), keep an eye for the updated design document! :animread:

@Shanga:
My current idea is to let the engine paint the base sprite - the body - as it does right now, and later we'll add more layers (vest, helmet, weapon...) which could be, *but don't have to be* painted by the JA2 graphics engine as well. this way the mercs and the soldiers won't look like tourists, I guess.

About the individual properties of mercs... One layer shall be assigned for HAIR/BEARD only, so in conjunction with the specific colours and the body type each merc already owns, it should be enough to make them at least a bit different than the "generics."

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185241]

Wed, 14 May 2008 22:07

Khor1255

Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

The work looks very good. I am looking forward to the 'blood' being cleaned from the hair.

Could it be possible to add a long sleeved layer to just the arms so we could depict actual military looking uniforms?

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185244]

Wed, 14 May 2008 22:48

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

@lisac - well if that can be done...mmmm... champagne is in order. I mean if we could paint more than one layer over the default bodytype that is... mindblowing. Will keep an eye open for the design document as you said, you seem to have a damn good plan in mind. If you somehow could link inventory slots to these new layers, that means we could see dynamicly loaded armour/clothes?

Like Buns in the famous "Swimsuit Edition" that was never published? Now if that doesnt drive JA2 modding forward I don't know what....

[Updated on: Wed, 14 May 2008 22:49] by Moderator

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185245]

Wed, 14 May 2008 23:06

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

Khor1255

The work looks very good. I am looking forward to the 'blood' being cleaned from the hair.

In a few hours... :scan:

Khor1255

Could it be possible to add a long sleeved layer to just the arms so we could depict actual military looking uniforms?

Yes. What, you're working on an antarctic mod?

Khor1255

If you somehow could link inventory slots to these new layers, that means we could see dynamicly loaded armour/clothes?

That's right. However, I can't do [code] it myself. But I know a guy who could...

Khor1255

Like Buns in the famous "Swimsuit Edition" that was never published? Now if that doesnt drive JA2 modding forward I don't know what...

Watch out for Majek!

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185246]

Wed, 14 May 2008 23:42

Khor1255

Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ

Wow. I don't even remember saying that last bit.

Thanx for the answers.

As for the long sleeved animations, they are fitting to just about every military uniform I can think of. They would really come in handy for my project because Nazis in tank tops just don't seem right.

Now, if we could link animations to what is in the inventory we could really see some cool depictions of different uniform types even on sprites of this size. That would add a lot to the feel of my mod and I think it would look better for a lot of applications.

For instance, on snow maps I always found the sleeveless sprites very out of place. It would have been cool if they would have at least fixed the sprites for UB but this approach has way more potential.

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185250]

Thu, 15 May 2008 00:18

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

@Khor - lol, good ideas mate, how did you think of them? It's like in that joke with old men, "when you can do it, have with whom to do it, but dont remember why to do it"....

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185252]

Thu, 15 May 2008 00:40

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

F_BRETH2.STI Animation once again >> :welder: DOWNLOAD HERE

Update:
- New colour range for hair (purple), instead of red - altogether 6 nuances
- Added watch on the left hand of the model (with compass, matches and all that stuff...)
- Lower character - and less pixels for the LW3D to draw the sprite (less details, but overall hard to notice)
- Slightly adjusted coordinates

Enjoy testing!

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185253]

Thu, 15 May 2008 00:44

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

This shouuld go into:

Data-1.13\ANIMS\F_MERC

right? mm yes...

Ok tested it. Looks good, but you should look into these small details:

- right arm and wooden stock of weapon merge too closely, so she looks like she has huge arm. I'd say stick to black stock to be safe.
- ... mm.. yes, her behind is impressive...
- maybe the shoulders should be a bit wider.
- check the left hand pose... are the feet/boots oriented in the same direction or I am seeing things?
- i'd recommend Sir-tech's "safe" solution of adding long hair so you can tell the merc is a female if you miss other anatomical details; the details are too low imho for a short haired woman

Here's a screenshot:

http://www.jagalaxy.com/shanga/screen000.jpg

Progress is awesome... simply awesome.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 May 2008 01:06] by Moderator

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185257]

Thu, 15 May 2008 02:13

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

Yes, I know what you're pointing to, and I think I finally nailed it down.

Here's the deal:
1) Sprites MUST be rendered with anti-aliasing (AA) turned on, it minimizes pixelation and gives some more weight to the character
2) The background colour MUST be BLACK. Rendering with some other coour and AA on will cause "wild pixels" (check out the yellow parts of Raven's t-shirt)

Problems:
- Rendering shadow on a black background (looking into it right now)
- Additional problems with anti-aliased shadow (post-processing)

The latest update (from the left: the latest Gina sprite, original F_MERC sprite, New Raven in-game, New Fox in-game):

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4775/compareyd2.png

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185259]

Thu, 15 May 2008 02:24

the scorpion

Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH

lol shanga. you can't point at a women's "problem zones" with such a big red flash Wink

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185260]

Thu, 15 May 2008 02:37

Shanga

Messages:3526
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

@scorp - dunno about meh, but lisac is nailin' those problem zones as we speak Wink

in his own words...
Quote:

I know what you're pointing to, and I think I finally nailed it down

@lisac - the "models" aren't that important as proper rendering and coding is to JA2 modding; ignore the arse comments Smile

keep up the good work.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 May 2008 02:38] by Moderator

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185262]

Thu, 15 May 2008 03:07

Marlboro Man

Messages:1238
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA

Wunnerful :thumbsup:

Smile

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprites[message #185263]

Thu, 15 May 2008 03:23

Mauser

Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany

the scorpion

lol shanga. you can't point at a women's "problem zones" with such a big red flash

the one

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☆★GL★☆

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185265]

Thu, 15 May 2008 03:52

lisac

Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria

OK, update once again...

The sprite can be found in my first post (together with the design document link). So far the only problem is area between "shirt" and "skin", which gives nuances of purple with AA turned ON. Since the purple nuances are considered as HAIR, the engine colours it accordingly to it (e.g. yellow pixels with Raven's sprite).

This can be easily repaired by pixel editing (manually).

The other problem is the shadow which has to be rendered separate, and than added to sprite in an image editing program. This can be done very fast with Photoshop by creating actions.

In the end, the 2D RBG images should be converted to Index (256 colours) using the specific palette and cropped to a proper size (both of those can be easily done - again - with actions in PS).

Gotta go to sleep now...

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Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #185306]

Thu, 15 May 2008 18:04

Marlboro Man

Messages:1238
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA

@ Lisac

Please start a new thread. This one is fat. Don't want to lose any of this.

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