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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175596]
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Thu, 14 February 2008 12:28
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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khor
what will work as desired is to copy-paste the .npc files in question from ja2 RR.
afterwards, you'll only have to re-adjust the speech lines, but i think this is actually less work.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175643]
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Thu, 14 February 2008 20:39
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Khor1255 |
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Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003 Location: Pleasantville, NJ |
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I'll try using those .npc files.
The only difference I could see is that you have 'Elliot' shot immediately and I keep him. If I have no other options and it proves to be necessary I'll have to off him as well but I will try with him still alive.
This sucks because for a while I thought I was getting somewhere with the .npcs.
We really need a better editor for these.
The unknown fields in the existing editors are many. With the code being available it seems like someone should be able to find out what those fields are at least.
EDIT
I just tried those .npc files. On the very first cutscene 'dedrianna's' picture pops up for a fraction of a second the 'elliot' says his line then when it goes back to d there is a dialouge box next to her protrait but 'she' says nothing. When I click on this box I get the endless timelas.
[Updated on: Thu, 14 February 2008 22:25] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175653]
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Thu, 14 February 2008 22:41
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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well then you tried something not quite the way it has to be.
also you can use a different file for th eone where "elliot" is shot early on too. just rename these things.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175661]
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Thu, 14 February 2008 23:42
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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at the moment i'm lost at why there should be any problems at all. maybe my files are indeed not backwards compatible...
remember my table which script belongs to which person and what event in the game. If you don't want elliot to be shot at all, you use a pair of scripts where he isn't shot an replace the one (pair) where he gets shot with them.
afterwards adjust dialogue and maybe remove other unwanted stuff.
if the RR files only differ from the default files by a text line, then it might not be the correct one. You made sure you replaced both character's scripts, not just one of them?
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175680]
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Fri, 15 February 2008 09:04
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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this is definitly the problem
you only changed either elliot or deidranna
there ought to be corresponding npc files for the other character too. check ja2 rr's folders for npc 180-196 files. That ought to fix it... of course there might be other factors but this one looks important.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175699]
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Fri, 15 February 2008 11:22
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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i hadn't found out all by myself. Someone once back in the days explained to me that the cut scenes were actually .npc script controlled. Once i got curious, i took a look at the .slf archive and had a look at which npc files i hadn't yet known. These files were the only .npc scripts i hadn't yet knwon/ investigated, so with no other option, it must have been those. Opening some, it didn't take long to find the pattern.
see each .npc scripts equals the behaviour of one of the NPC's in question, deidranna and elliot (Joe uses his normal 079.npc script)
and the numbers correspond. 160 and 180 belong to the same cutscene, as do 161 to 181 and 176 to 196 for example
They are like couples, and when you only changed one part, it may have worked. See you can change the cutscene by only altering elliot's files so he jumps over deidranna's slaps to his own record initially *after* the slapping. But it's a thin line, there might be other actions in there that require the other script to match.
Now let's look at the "shoot elliot" problem. Yes in RR his character slot is shot in the opening seqence. Everybody that skipped it: shame on you guys ;-D
For your mod, you might want that character not to be shot at all, so i suggest you use one of the other couples of scripts for the event in question, or, you jump the shooting and have joe (here you have to jump to character 079's correct record) to appear right away or just end the cut scene before the shooting. There's many options that you have, depends on which you think fits the most.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175950]
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Tue, 19 February 2008 00:57
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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Khor1255There are two parts that I am totally in the weeds about as far as .npc files are concerned.
One is the fact that there seem to be two actions sometimes contained in a single part of the .npc file in question.
For instance:
In npc file 160 record 1 it calls for speech file 10 but also calls for
Jumpto NPC 135 record 0
When you look in this record it starts with
NPC is an enemy is true
Which would lead you to believe that this makes NPC 135 an enemy of NPC 75
I know I am missing something because all I can see the script really doing is triggering a voice file. Is it possible that the same record is used for two totally different actions?
The second question ties directly to the first. What is the signifigance of the .npc files that have the same numbers as characters?
I would assume .npc file 75 pertains to d and .npc file 135 e but how? And is this always the case?
normally, i call you names but in this above case i really don't find a way to claim it's your fault ;-D
jump to npc135 record 0 is indeed misguiding. It is only correct if it happens normally in the game, from an NPC's npc script (lol)
Whenever you find a jump to npc 135 or 75 in one of the 160+ scripts, it doesn not jump to 135.npc or 075.npc but to the correspondingly numbered .npc file
so if 160.npc sais jump to npc 075 record 0 than this means 180.NPC record 0!
and speech records are somehting entirely else, try never to confuse them, it's just a problem of naming conventions, think about it more abstractly: the npc scripts always jump to record in other .npc reords, speech is effected only in that one field where you can select speech, how many lines etc, nowehere else.
a single record of a .npc file can contain many different things to happen: they are labeled according to their slot: record is used how often/ npc has itemxy/ stands on grid z, trigger true/ false, interaction type, leadership requirement, speech output, quests fulfilled, triggers set/ true/ false, npc action.
also the "npc is an enemy" is not an action, it's a "fact", a trigger that must be true for this record to be activated. Also it doesn't make npc's hostile to each other, only towards the player.
wherever the .npc files correspond to the numbers in prof.dat, these .npc files contained most of the npc's actions, active quests, starting/ ending quests, different triggers set to true or false depending on interaction etc.
where the numbers don't correspond, it still works similarly, where the name of the .npc file points ot factions or maps, then it can make certain civ's on maps make different comments depending on active quests, loyalty ratings etc.
i never tested if actions can be triggered from generic npc's (no name) but you might want to try. Checks fro interaction types are of course not possible here.
as far as the shooting is concerned, you can just copy-paste the couple of corresponding scripts right back, it was just a switch from me, switch them back to restore something close to ja2's scripts. otherwise disable the shooting procedure the same way you disabled the slapping procedure. Search for unknwon npc actions and see if you can skip the record. Remember in this script, also joe (079.NPC) takes part, so you can jump to his action too.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175951]
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Tue, 19 February 2008 01:02
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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oh, there are some inaccuracies. "npc is an enemy" does not make anybody hostile to the player. it's just a trigger. "NPC turns hostile" is, afair, the action that makes them actually attack you on sight.
"npc turns friendly" can reverse this (not permanently?)
another small inaccuracy, there are some npc actions that can cause speech to be triggered, but this is only the "npc is an asshole" and "npc is a nice guy" comments that can be triggered.
of course, you can design a mod where only one npc is reckoned in such positive or negativ ways and have your custom mercs use specific comments, e.g. to indicate a quest speciality about the character in question.
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Sergeant Major
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Re: How to make an editor?[message #175967]
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Tue, 19 February 2008 10:20
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the scorpion |
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Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004 Location: CH |
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i had a look at it. script 160, record 04 do you see unknown npc action 38?
that's the shooting.
however, watch out, you might have to add a new jump to the next script (npc 075 record 05) because the shooting also triggered the jump to the next record, removing the shooting might cause the script to stop. So you add this jump from record 4 to record 5 in order to keep the script running when the shooting is removed
deidranna and elliot's 075 and 135.npc scripts are almost meaningless, they mainly contain what they say when you meet them ingame, which is pretty much nothing. Deidranna has some hardcoded stuff that isn't in the script.
at least that's as far as i recall.
sorry for all the off-topic. I think once we have a new thread, parts of this can be moved there. I think most people that made these programmes have becme inactive as far as the ja2 community is concerned. However maybe some of them may still reply to e-mails?
the source code of certain programmes might be useful, but i figure the chances that they keep their very old sources are slim.
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Sergeant Major
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