The Bears Pit: v1.13 Time Capsule (How-to Library) » "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills

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Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #197733]

Tue, 30 September 2008 11:59

orko_oskar

Messages:72
Registered:April 2007
Location: Sweden

Does the to-hit bonus of HtH and Martial art stack?
Is it even possible to have them both at the same time?

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Corporal

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #198348]

Tue, 07 October 2008 14:44

SilverM

Messages:2
Registered:September 2008
Location: Croatia

Ok, I have a question here. I went to proedit (I suppose it's the one in Data-1.13\BinaryData) and just wanted to change Scope's teaching skill into sniper (I guess it's the one called rooftops in the editor). Saved, started a new game, recruited Scope but nothing's changed. She still has night ops/teaching combo. What did I do wrong?

Edit:
Ok, nevermind, I figured it out. I renamed the corresponding .dat file for my planned game (experienced, tons of guns) to prof.dat, edited, saved, renamed back to original file name and now it works ^^

[Updated on: Tue, 07 October 2008 14:55] by Moderator

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Civilian

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #198363]

Tue, 07 October 2008 17:18

cdunigan

Messages:132
Registered:September 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

@Kaiden: Me too. I'm pretty sure I boosted Danny's morale by letting him set up a field hospital in Drassen by himself.

@orko: As far as I know, you can't have HtH and Martial Arts at the same time - at least you couldn't in JA2 vanilla.

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Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #198376]

Tue, 07 October 2008 17:56

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

@ Kaiden/JAPH: What can I tell you, I couldn't find any effect to either of them. I wish there was...

About the H2H thing: It's possible to artificially set someone to have both, I think. I've never tried it though.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #198381]

Tue, 07 October 2008 18:13

cdunigan

Messages:132
Registered:September 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Yeah, I realized that must be true when both you and SpaceViking said it's not in the code. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=198369#Post198369.

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Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203484]

Sat, 06 December 2008 23:12

waldtroll

Messages:31
Registered:February 2007
Location: Berlin, Germany

Headrock

Auto Weapons

Reduces chance to fire "unwanted" extra bullets in auto mode.(2)

Reduces Auto/Burst penalty for each Auto/Burst bullet, by 50%. Also works with launched-grenade bursts. (2)

Do I got it right? An Autoweapon Expert gets no Auto/Burst penalty at all, so it would make no sense at all to give them a Forgrip for their weapons?

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Private 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203493]

Sun, 07 December 2008 02:44

Telpscorei

Messages:13
Registered:September 2007
Location: United Kingdom

No, an auto-expert would reduce their penalty by 75%

100 penalty reduced by 50% = 50 penalty
50 penalty reduced by 50% = 25 penalty

Hence total reduction is 75%

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Private

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203494]

Sun, 07 December 2008 03:33

waldtroll

Messages:31
Registered:February 2007
Location: Berlin, Germany

I see, thank you.

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Private 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203675]

Tue, 09 December 2008 21:25

sphinx

Messages:42
Registered:February 2007

Is burst penalty maxed out at some point?
I mean, the minimum CTH is always 1%, no matter what the modifiers are, right?
Anyone thought that burst penalty should max out at some point? Various maximum burst penalty values for different guns? Anyone?

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Corporal

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203701]

Wed, 10 December 2008 00:41

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Quote:

I mean, the minimum CTH is always 1%, no matter what the modifiers are, right?

Yes. The minimum is always 1%. That means that if you fire a 100 round burst, even if you start with no apparent chance to hit, you still will hit with one bullet, statistically. In actuality, the chance to hit your target is even higher, once taking into account how bullet paths work... A lot of hits occur due to the flightpath taking the bullet through the target's tile - this is collateral damage (the same reason why bullets often hit anyone standing between you and your target - but this often causes much less damage than an actual hit due to high CTH.

The bottom line is that no matter how many bullets you fire, there's always a certain chance to hit, even when this formula is allowed to reach 0% (see HAM Wink

). Still, I agree with the second part in your argument, that the auto penalty should be "capped" at some point, preferably based on experience level, strength and autoweapons skill. This way a trained soldier cannot completely lose control of their weapon even when firing a long burst.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #203787]

Thu, 11 December 2008 03:59

sphinx

Messages:42
Registered:February 2007

I tried the HAM and boy does it kick ass! Finally some drastic and refreshing changes. Highly recommended. And the minimum CTH can be changed by the user! Oh man... this is like an early christmas present. Thank you, Headrock. Good job.
For anyone interested, The HAM: http://www.bookgallery.co.il/JA2PublicPosts/ham.asp

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Corporal

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #220016]

Mon, 08 June 2009 20:46

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Are there any solid numbers on how often a psycho character switches to burst fire and how many surplus shots they might fire in full auto?

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #220091]

Tue, 09 June 2009 01:05

Sandro

Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars

The chance is calculated like: if (3 + number of aim clicks) = 0, then go psycho.
Which means if you do not aim at all, there is a 25% chance to go psycho. If you aim to 6 clicks, chance is 10%.
Tha's for what I know.

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Master Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #220101]

Tue, 09 June 2009 01:45

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

LOL you forgot to put in the word "random".

Quote:

if (3 + number of aim clicks) = 0

You mean:

Quote:

if Random(3+number of aim clicks) = 0

Or in other words:

Roll a random number between 0 and (3+number of Aim Clicks)-1 
If it comes up 0, then
   Go psycho.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #220105]

Tue, 09 June 2009 01:58

Sandro

Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars

Oh, ups, I am a bit tired and barely see the monitor. Sorry for that. :sleep:

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Master Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #221763]

Thu, 18 June 2009 04:34

louist

Messages:9
Registered:June 2009
Location: Canada

A quick question! Where other skills denote whether they are single level (1) or expert (2), Steathly is denoted by (*). I was wondering what this means? I didn't notice anything in the Wiki about it, either. Thanks!

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Private

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #221797]

Thu, 18 June 2009 10:57

usrbid

Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008

Hi Louist, some skills you can only take once, such like Ambidextrous or Camouflage, this is what the (1) means.

Other skills you can take twice, this is what the (2) means. Stealth you can take twice, so it should read (2) and not (*) I suppose.

To take a skill twice for your IMP, select it only once at IMP creation, this is a little confusing.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #221823]

Thu, 18 June 2009 14:37

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Headrock

Roll a random number between 0 and (3+number of Aim Clicks)-1 
If it comes up 0, then
   Go psycho.

Wouldn't "(2+number of Aim Clicks)" make more sense than "(3+number of Aim Clicks)-1"?

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #221842]

Thu, 18 June 2009 16:22

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Quote:

Wouldn't "(2+number of Aim Clicks)" make more sense than "(3+number of Aim Clicks)-1"?

I was illustrating how the game works.

Random(X) = Roll a random number between 0 and X-1.

X is therefore not the highest possibility, but rather the number of possibilities. Since the lowest possibility is 0, the highest is then X-1.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #229617]

Wed, 29 July 2009 04:02

Blue_Fox

Messages:539
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands

Back to the Sniper Trait.
My IMP is Sniper Expert, but it seems on a long run it will be a waste of a this double trait.

Question about Merc movement.

I did a test with all merc with the same stat, but different traits.

I seems they all have different movement speed.
The First Lady (Voice1)moved the fastest. How come?

BTW: why is this READ-ONLY and still possible to add some comments?

[Updated on: Wed, 29 July 2009 05:33] by Moderator

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First Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #230703]

Mon, 10 August 2009 00:53

ssd

Messages:21
Registered:July 2009
Location: Germany

Headrock

Heavy Weapons

Increases base Chance-to-Hit with Rocket Launchers by 15%. (2)

Increases CTH with launched grenades and other high-angle launchers by 15%. (2)

Auto Weapons

Reduces chance to fire "unwanted" extra bullets in auto mode.(2)

Reduces Auto/Burst penalty for each Auto/Burst bullet, by 50%. Also works with launched-grenade bursts. (2)

If I have a rifle and put an attachable grenade launcher on it, which skill will be used by firing grenades with this gun, "Auto Weapons" or "Heavy Weapons" ?

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Private 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #230708]

Mon, 10 August 2009 03:40

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Heavy, since the weapon you use is, technically, a "high-angle-launcher".

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #230710]

Mon, 10 August 2009 05:05

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

(Hurr durr, at least I think it's a heavy weapon Razz

Naaah, I'm pretty sure. BR's lists them as such even.)

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #230713]

Mon, 10 August 2009 06:41

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

yup.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #254783]

Thu, 24 June 2010 19:36

Fury

Messages:10
Registered:June 2010

I had trouble getting that Grumm headminer work for me, so I tried various mercs and checked their personality with proedit.

As I read it (and this article) most of the Character Attitude and Personality Traits (like asshole, friendly etc) may not have a direct influence ingame. But its possible they are used to calculate the different Merc-NPC interaction effectiveness values. Mercs like Scully and Thor with a friendly attitude are shown to have "friendly effectiveness" of 200/210 % and Mercs like Fox (appearance Babe) or Brain (extreme attractive) have 300/200 % in recruiting effectiveness etc...

Since you can edit those values without changing attitude/appearance and vice versa, im not realy sure if theres some code calculating those values. But that would maybe explain, how the values for self generated mercs could work. I dont think its just 100% for all 4 categories, but I havent yet found out how to display my mercs hidden atributes with proedit Sad

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Private

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #254787]

Thu, 24 June 2010 20:23

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

I made the list based on looking at the code. If there's any sort of influence that isn't listed in the opening post, then it's ridiculously well-hidden. I'm not discounting the possibility, but I can't see the effect in the code.

If you want to be sure, you can try editing their personality traits and see if it makes a difference. Just make sure to edit the right thing - If the INI setting "READ_PROFILE_DATA_FROM_XML" = TRUE, use PROEDIT. If it's FALSE, edit MercProfiles.XML instead.

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #254812]

Fri, 25 June 2010 01:00

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

Headrock

Just make sure to edit the right thing - If the INI setting "READ_PROFILE_DATA_FROM_XML" = TRUE, use PROEDIT. If it's FALSE, edit MercProfiles.XML instead.

Shouldn't this be the other way around?

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Lieutenant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #254817]

Fri, 25 June 2010 03:46

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Excuse me, my brain is on "Standby".

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #258064]

Sun, 01 August 2010 04:52

Hachiryoku

Messages:97
Registered:June 2009

I'm wondering if ambidextrous adds a bonus after dexterity is applied.
In my games, ambidextrous mercs seem to fix things faster.

Case in point;
Vince and Gasket....Both with a dex of 90. Vince's mech skill was 90 and Gasket's was 99.
Vince repaired things much faster.

I don't think this was intended by Sirtech, but I think they realized it and tweaked characters accordingly to avoid this. I don't think they expected someone to take Vince and train him until his Mech and Dex were in the 90s.

If so, then it wouldn't surprise me that ambidex mercs are better with explosives and medical as well. They are also reliant on good dex.

Dex also affects CTH (H2H, guns and thrown).

Now, this prompts another question. Is the reduced penalty in the code an actual reduction in the 2 pistol penalty, or is it actually applied as a bonus to Dex that generically adds a bonus to hit?

Case in point;
My ambidextrous Fox seems to be a decent H2H fighter.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #258083]

Sun, 01 August 2010 14:49

silversurfer

Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009

Hachiryoku

Now, this prompts another question. Is the reduced penalty in the code an actual reduction in the 2 pistol penalty, or is it actually applied as a bonus to Dex that generically adds a bonus to hit?

Non ambidex mercs receive a penalty to CTH when doing dual shots. Ambidex mercs shoot as if they were only shooting a single weapon (that means no penalty but also no bonus for them).

[Updated on: Sun, 01 August 2010 14:50] by Moderator

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Lieutenant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #258946]

Tue, 10 August 2010 01:16

coffeecommander

Messages:86
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

What does the (*) at the stealth skill mean, anyways? Unknown?

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #258963]

Tue, 10 August 2010 09:35

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

Means you get double the benefit if you take two levels in this skill ("expert")

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Sergeant Major

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #277278]

Tue, 05 April 2011 01:54

kyrub

Messages:3
Registered:August 2006

KNIFING gives you bonus damage when you hit with knife. It is random, 0-15 bonus per trait level.
It is not mentioned in the opening post, it seems.

EDIT: The extra damage never applies to unnoticed (sneak) attack. - Meh.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 April 2011 11:24] by Moderator

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Civilian

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #283201]

Sun, 12 June 2011 14:09

Blue_Fox

Messages:539
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands

Compare Intelligence between Vince & Gasket....

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First Sergeant

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #296511]

Tue, 10 January 2012 14:35

S0B

Messages:13
Registered:December 2011

Seems the information here is not up to date, at least when I read the descriptions building my mercs?

I want to know if psycho still has that burst advantage or is agressive the new psycho?

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Private

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #296521]

Tue, 10 January 2012 17:17

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009

Nope, psycho bonus only applies with old traits.

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Captain

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