Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Time Capsule (How-to Library) » "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills
"How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195392] Sat, 30 August 2008 23:16 Go to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
The second part of the series will be much shorter. It focuses on the different character traits that most (if not all) characters in the game possess.

The first time most of us encounter traits is during our I.M.P merc creation process. In 1.13, we can choose any skills we want from a list. Up to two skills can be chosen, and that's the limit for all characters. If we choose only one, we get an "expert level" trait, which is usually (but not always!) twice as good as a regular trait.

Each character in the game has at least one trait. For hired mercenaries, we can see their traits in our laptop's "Personnel" window. These traits give the character a certain "Edge" over other characters.

Traits never change and can never be learned. They can't be lost either. What you see is what you get.

The following list shows all possible traits, and the effect they have on gameplay. Unfortunately, some of these effects had to be "generalized" because the actual functions that handle them are very very complex. Some effects are different based on the situation, so the end result may vary.

Effects marked with (2) are two-level effects. If we have "expert" level in the trait, the effect is always TWICE as strong.

Effects marked with (1) are one-level effects. "Expert" level in the trait confers no extra bonus. Some traits, therefore, like "Camouflage", should never be taken at "Expert" level.

Please note that the THIEF trait is UNUSED IN THE GAME. Do not select that trait for your IMP, as it gives you no advantages!

------------------------------------------

Lockpicking


  • Increases chance to pick regular (non-electronic) locks. (2)


Note that most locks in the first half of the campaign are "normal" locks. The lockpicking trait remains useful later, but opening electronic locks may prove a hinderance in the later game.

Hand-to-hand


  • Increases hand-to-hand attack damage by 45%. (2)
  • Increased chance to hit in Hand-to-Hand and blunt-weapon attacks by 15% (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge Hand-to-Hand or Blunt-Weapon attacks by 15%, if you're not armed with a knife. (2)


Hand-to-hand is less accurate than Martial Arts, but allows greater damage per hit. Overall, it seems the Martial Arts skill is much better...

Electronics


  • Without this skill, repairing electronic devices takes twice as long. (1)
  • Same goes for repairing the Robot. (1)
  • Without this skill, picking electronic lockpicks is twice as hard. (1)
  • Without this skill, attaching remote detonators to explosives is twice as hard. (1)
  • Without this skill, planting remote-detonated explosives is 25% harder. (1)
  • Without this skill, disabling electronic traps is 25% harder. (1)
  • Without this skill, attaching some electronic items to other items is twice as hard. (1)


The electronics trait becomes very useful in the later game, when there are many electronic devices to handle, and more electronic locks to keep. It would be nice if we could tell which locks are elecronic, but at the moment we just can't.

Night-Ops


  • Reduces time required for sleep, as well as the speed at which the character loses fatigue. (2)
  • Increases vision range at night by 1. (2)
  • Increases hearing range by 2 at night, and by 1 at any other conditions. (2)
  • Increases chance to get an interrupt during nighttime. (2)


Night-Ops is perhaps one of the most useful traits in the game. Even if you don't like fighting in nighttime, sometimes you don't really get a choice. A night-ops merc can really make a difference.

Throwing


  • Increases throwing range by 12%. (2)
  • Increases CTH with thrown weapons by 12%. (2)


Teaching


  • Increases speed of training militia and other mercs by a certain amount (you can set that amount in Options.INI). (2)


Heavy Weapons


  • Increases base Chance-to-Hit with Rocket Launchers by 15%. (2)
  • Increases CTH with launched grenades and other high-angle launchers by 15%. (2)


Auto Weapons


  • Reduces chance to fire "unwanted" extra bullets in auto mode.(2)
  • Reduces Auto/Burst penalty for each Auto/Burst bullet, by 50%. Also works with launched-grenade bursts. (2)


Stealthy


  • Decreases noise created by moving about. (*)


Thief


  • THIS TRAIT IS UNUSED! It gives no bonuses to anything, not even to stealing...


Martial Arts


  • Reduces time required for sleep, as well as the speed at which the character loses fatigue. (2)
  • Increases damage in hand-to-hand and blunt-weapon combat by 30%. (2)
  • Increases chance-to-hit in hand-to-hand and blunt-weapon combat by 30% (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge knife attack by 10%, if you're also armed with a knife. (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge knife attack by 15%, if you're not armed with a knife. (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge Hand-to-Hand or Blunt-Weapon attacks by 30%, if you're not armed with a knife. (2)
  • Please note: Martial artists do NOT get a damage bonus from Brass Knuckles or other blunt weapons!


Knifing


  • Increases chance to cause instant death to a target, when using throwing knives and the target can't see the thrower. (2)
  • Increases chance to hit with knife attacks by 30%. (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge knife attack by 30%, if you're also armed with a knife. (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge knife attack by 10%, if you're not armed with a knife. (2)
  • Increases chance to dodge Hand-to-Hand and Blunt-Weapon attacks by 15%, if you're also armed with a knife. (2)


Professional Sniper


  • Increases maximum CTH bonus possible with extra aiming by 10 points. The maximum regards the total bonus possible, which is usually achieved only after several right clicks. (2)
  • Reduces "effective" range to target when calculating CTH, regardless of the weapon used! (2)


A great skill to have. Even if you don't use a sniper scope, reducing effective range to target ensures better CTH in many situations.

Camouflage


  • Gives 100% Woodland Camo, permanently. (1)


Camouflage skill is excellent, because you don't have to find/buy camouflage kits, or wear obstructive camouflage equipment (like Ghillie suits). Remember that you only need ONE LEVEL of camouflage to get the full effect, so choose a second skill alongside it.

Ambidextrous


  • Without this skill, you get a -20% penalty to CTH when firing two one-handed weapons. (1)


---------------------------------------------------

<font size="">Character Attitude and Personality Traits</font>
Characters can also have different traits that distinguish them in terms of behaviour. Some of these traits are good to have, but most are pretty negative.
These traits only come in one level. You can't be "more" or "less" endowed in a personality trait

NORMAL


  • No changes, except when rolling some random merc dialogue. No effect on the game.


FRIENDLY


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.


LONER


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.


OPTIMIST


  • When morale goes up, the Optimist will have it go up by one extra point.
  • When morale goes down, the Optimist will have it go down by one less point (that's a good thing).


PESSIMIST


  • When morale goes up, the Pessimist will gain one point less than he should.
  • When morale goes down, the Pessimist will lose one extra point of morale. Not a good thing.


AGGRESSIVE


  • When morale goes up, the Optimist will have it go up by one extra point.
  • When morale goes down due to running away from a battle, it will have TWICE as negative an impact on the Aggressive. That's very bad.
  • Aggressives are a bit harder to suppress (with Suppression Fire) than other mercs.


ARROGANT


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.


BIG_SHOT


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.


ASSHOLE


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.


COWARD


  • When morale goes down, the Coward will suffer two extra points of morale loss. Very bad.
  • When morale goes down due to running away from a battle, Cowards do not lose morale at all! They are perfectly fine with running away!


------------------------------------

NO_PERSONALITYTRAIT


  • No effect as far as I can discern from the code.


HEAT_INTOLERANT


  • Aside from uttering the occasional annoyance with the heat, it appears that this personality trait is not used anywhere else in the game. There IS a function that's supposed to check whether the merc is too hot, and the game apparently does track a climactic temperature across all sectors (changing throughout the game, wouldn't you know it!). Unfortunately, the check isn't called anywhere else in the code, so there is no real effect for the Heat_Intolerant trait... Sad


NERVOUS


  • Increased chance for the character to die while on another assignment.
  • If the character's morale is less than 50 (stable), and is alone in a squad or has no other squad member within a 10-tile distance, he is likely to suffer a Phobic Episode, leading to a maximum of -20 morale hit!


CLAUSTROPHOBIC


  • If underground, the Claustrophobe's Experience Level is considered to be one level lower!
  • If underground, the Claustrophobe has 10% less AP per turn than he would normally have.
  • If underground, the Claustrophobe has a certain chance to get a Phobic Episode, resulting in anywhere up to -20 morale loss!


NONSWIMMER


  • The Non-Swimmer loses 5 times as much stamina, when in Deep Water tiles.


FEAR_OF_INSECTS


  • If the Insectophobe can see an insect, his total APs available per turn are decreased by 10%!
  • If the Insectophobe can see an insest, he has a certain chance to get a Phobic Episode, resulting in anywhere up to -20 morale loss!


FORGETFUL


  • Increased chance for the character to die while on another assignment.
  • We all know Dimitri... The character can suddenly forget where they were going. If in turn-based mode, the character loses anywhere between 1 AP and ALL his APs. Apparently, once this happens, the character can freely move up to 200 tiles before he's eligible for another attack of amnesia.


PSYCHO


  • Increased chance for the character to die while on another assignment.
  • When firing in single-shot mode, the character is liable to switch to Burst mode, if the gun can burst at all. Adding extra aiming APs will reduce the chance of that happening.
  • When firing in Auto-fire mode, the character is more likely to add extra bullets to the burst. Higher marksmanship helps offset this.
  • Psychos get +15 free to-hit bonus with any attack (both Guns and Melee)!

[Updated on: Mon, 27 April 2015 23:41] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195394] Sat, 30 August 2008 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blue_Fox

 
Messages:592
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands
Will there come a time that a merc can have more Skills ?
I miss my Night-Ops skill.

I'm a Lone Wolf Character, so i picked Electronics & Sniper.
Wenn most skills reach 99 almost all is possible.
Started with 90 Mec & Dex Very Happy

Btw, in previous JA2 (original) Night-Ops expert had 5 vision.
Expert increased by 150%.

Does the Throwing- Expert dont have the chance for instand kill with a knife?

Maybe an option for future programming... get leadership improvement by talking to NPC's.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195396] Sat, 30 August 2008 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:

Does the Throwing- Expert dont have the chance for instand kill with a knife?


Nope.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195397] Sat, 30 August 2008 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Stealth also increases the chances of hearing things.

And how the sniper skill interacts with aiming is a LOT more complicated that that.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 August 2008 23:56] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195403] Sun, 31 August 2008 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Stealth also increases the chances of hearing things.


What can I tell you, that doesn't appear in the code. If you can show where this happens...

Quote:
And how the sniper skill interacts with aiming is a LOT more complicated that that.


Well by reducing effective range, you already get a ton of effects. But the call to check the sniper skill is in one specific place...


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195405] Sun, 31 August 2008 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
From opplist.cpp:

INT8 DecideHearing( SOLDIERTYPE * pSoldier )
{
	// calculate the hearing value for the merc...

	INT8		bSlot;
	INT8		bHearing;

	if ( TANK( pSoldier ) )
	{
		return( -5 );
	}
	else if ( pSoldier->flags.uiStatusFlags & SOLDIER_MONSTER )
	{
		return( -10 );
	}

	bHearing = 0;

	if (pSoldier->stats.bExpLevel > 3)
	{
		bHearing++;
	}

	if (HAS_SKILL_TRAIT( pSoldier, NIGHTOPS ))
	{
		// sharper hearing generally
		bHearing += 1 * NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, NIGHTOPS );
	}

	//bSlot = FindObj( pSoldier, EXTENDEDEAR );
	//if ( bSlot == HEAD1POS || bSlot == HEAD2POS)
	bSlot = FindHearingAid(pSoldier);
	if ( bSlot != -1 )
	{
		// at 81-100% adds +5, at 61-80% adds +4, at 41-60% adds +3, etc.
		bHearing += GetHearingRangeBonus(pSoldier);	// pSoldier->inv[bSlot][0]->data.objectStatus / 20 + 1;
	}

	// adjust for dark conditions
	switch ( ubAmbientLightLevel )
	{
		case 8:
		case 9:
			bHearing += 1;
			break;
		case 10:
			bHearing += 2;
			break;
		case 11:
		case 12:
		case 13:
		case 14:
		case 15:
			bHearing += 3;
			if (HAS_SKILL_TRAIT( pSoldier, NIGHTOPS ))
			{
				// yet another bonus for nighttime
				bHearing += 1 * NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, NIGHTOPS );
			}
			break;
		default:
			break;
	}

	return( bHearing );
}




Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195406] Sun, 31 August 2008 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blue_Fox

 
Messages:592
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands
And what about Attitudes/Personalities?
NORMAL
FRIENDLY
LONER
OPTIMIST
PESSIMIST
AGGRESSIVE
ARROGANT
BIG_SHOT
ASSHOLE
COWARD

How effect a Loner the rest of a group, like Shadow. He not like anyone else, but alot mercs like him.

Long time ago i read something about attitudes, but can find the post anymore. Think it was Bears site, but im not sure.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195408] Sun, 31 August 2008 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Yeah I was going to get to personalities next. I'll do that soon, don't worry.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195415] Sun, 31 August 2008 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Nice. Looking forward to that personality explanation.

However, I just don't get this:


Headrock


Camouflage skill is excellent, because you don't have to find/buy camouflage kits, or wear obstructive camouflage equipment (like Ghillie suits). Remember that you only need ONE LEVEL of camouflage to get the full effect, so choose a second skill alongside it.




Irony??? I mean, really... camo is in my opinion the most useless skill there is at the moment. Those camo kits can be obtained pretty cheaply from Bobby ray, if needed and they drop fairly often. And don't forget, that LBE equipment also offers camo bonus. In the later stages (or most often right after the first week) there really is no need for the camo skill. That's why I said in the other threat that camo skill needs a bit extra oomph. -> making the Ghilie suit better (read as: offer more than 100% camouflage), when used by a merc with camo skill, would be a step in the right direction.



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195421] Sun, 31 August 2008 02:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Personality and attitude traits have been added, above.

@ Smeagol:

Personally I find the camouflage trait pretty useful, even though what you said is correct. I still think it beats the crap out of wearing Ghillie though, and I agree that a ghillie suit needs to be MUCH more useful (should be able to lie right next to an enemy without being spotted, with the right conditions).


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195425] Sun, 31 August 2008 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Quote:
ASSHOLE


No effect as far as I can discern from the code... How unfortunate.



What? You mean if I select asshole, I am not an asshole? How asinine. :badair:



Wink


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195428] Sun, 31 August 2008 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
@MM:

I don't think the code affects you. :biglaugh:

Seriously though, this opens up an interesting discussion - what kinds of game effects would you like to see associated with those traits?


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195434] Sun, 31 August 2008 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
To see how the sniper bonus to aiming works run this program and look in the file C:\temp\out.txt. This is right out of the actual code. Sniper is not a straight +10% bonus per level.

#include

int main() {
std::ofstream myFile;
myFile.open("C:\\temp\\out.txt");
for (int level = 1; level <= 10; ++level) {
myFile << std::endl << "************" << std::endl << "For level " << level << std::endl;
for (int marksmanship = 40; marksmanship <= 100; marksmanship += 20) {
myFile << " For marksmanship " << marksmanship << std::endl;
for (int aimTime=1; aimTime <= 7; ++aimTime) {
int bonusProgression[8] = {500,500,600,600,750,750,750,1000};
float maxBonus = 20+((float)marksmanship/20*level) /*+(NUM_SKILL_TRAITS( pSoldier, PROF_SNIPER )*10)*/;
float maxBonus1 = 20+((float)marksmanship/20*level) + 10;
float maxBonus2 = 20+((float)marksmanship/20*level) + 20;
int maxClickBonus = 10;
int iChance = 0;
for(int i = 0; i < aimTime; i++) {
float aimTimeBonus = __min((maxBonus*bonusProgression[i]/1000),maxClickBonus);
maxBonus -= aimTimeBonus;
iChance += (int)(aimTimeBonus+.5);
}
int iChance1 = 0;
for(int i = 0; i < aimTime; i++) {
float aimTimeBonus = __min((maxBonus1*bonusProgression[i]/1000),maxClickBonus);
maxBonus1 -= aimTimeBonus;
iChance1 += (int)(aimTimeBonus+.5);
}
int iChance2 = 0;
for(int i = 0; i < aimTime; i++) {
float aimTimeBonus = __min((maxBonus2*bonusProgression[i]/1000),maxClickBonus);
maxBonus2 -= aimTimeBonus;
iChance2 += (int)(aimTimeBonus+.5);
}
myFile << " Aiming time " << aimTime
<< ", no sniper bonus " << iChance << "%"
<< ", sniper 1 bonus " << iChance1 << "%"
<< ", sniper 2 bonus " << iChance2 << "%"
<< std::endl;
}
}
}
myFile.close();
}


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195435] Sun, 31 August 2008 04:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Well for starters you can fix playing the asshole role. If I am an asshole in real life, Dammit I want to be an asshole in the game! :biglaugh: Or better yet a combination of 2, I know I have been called an Arrogant Asshole from time to time. :biglaugh:


I was thinking Normal, Friendly, and Loner do have an effect in game. At least I thought I read something about those somewhere. I normally have my IMP use the optimist trait, only because it's the best one to use overall.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195436] Sun, 31 August 2008 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:762
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Headrock
Quote:
Stealth also increases the chances of hearing things.


What can I tell you, that doesn't appear in the code. If you can show where this happens...


It's right there in Black and White. Unfortunately it's not in the code. Dunno what I was remembering. Stealth does reduce the chances of dieing while on another assignment.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195441] Sun, 31 August 2008 05:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Yeah most of this data is antiquated and is simply incorrect. I think you'd better remove this.

[edit: The stuff I wrote at the top of this post above comes from looking at the code. Well, mostly looking at the code, hehehe I cut a corner there and really upset SpaceViking Very Happy ]

[Updated on: Sun, 31 August 2008 05:10] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195442] Sun, 31 August 2008 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Well for starters you can fix playing the asshole role.


Less chance in RPC dialogue would be a good start. What else? I think it may be possible to give morale penalties to everyone else on your squad, too. Very Happy


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195446] Sun, 31 August 2008 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Wink I deleted those 2 posts, but there is still a few things from the old Mcfadden stuff still viable.

[Updated on: Sun, 31 August 2008 16:30] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195450] Sun, 31 August 2008 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2090
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
But when it comes to combat the 'asshole' should give a slight morale bonus to the squad

Especially if he/she dies :devilaugh:


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195486] Sun, 31 August 2008 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lepidosteus

 
Messages:93
Registered:November 2007
Location: Land of Buns.
Quote:
Camouflage

* Gives 100% Woodland Camo, permanently. (1)

Camouflage skill is excellent, because you don't have to find/buy camouflage kits, or wear obstructive camouflage equipment (like Ghillie suits). Remember that you only need ONE LEVEL of camouflage to get the full effect, so choose a second skill alongside it.


Weren't Camo nerfed to near-uselessness in 1.13, compared to 'vanilla' JA2?
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195532] Mon, 01 September 2008 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blue_Fox

 
Messages:592
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands
Also, what does experience level.

Would be good wenn get bonus to all skills wenn experience level rising.

Detect traps, more interrupts, etc...
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195542] Mon, 01 September 2008 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:769
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Headrock
Professional Sniper

  • Increases maximum CTH bonus possible with extra aiming by 10 points. The maximum regards the total bonus possible, which is usually achieved only after several right clicks. (2)
  • Reduces "effective" range to target when calculating CTH, regardless of the weapon used! (2)
A great skill to have. Even if you don't use a sniper scope, reducing effective range to target ensures better CTH in many situations.


To point 1: Early on, everyone got a +10 to-hit on each and every single aiming click (4 clicks = +40). With having more aiming clicks available on Battle- and Sniper-Scopes, this made the bad mercs like Flo still into Supersnipers.
So the bonus from each aiming click was linked to the level and the marksmanship of the merc in question (EDIT: for highpowered scopes only).
The Sniper trait counteracts this somewhat, though it is not of much use on a high-MRK merc, who already is near to the +10 per click.
So concerning this part of the trait, it is most useful to mercs/IMPs that start with MRK below 80.

To point 2: This is correct, the Sniper trait confers a small AimBonus (like the Scopes have), accredited to a better perception due to sniper training.

The latter part is the only thing that still makes the trait useful for high-MRK mercs.

[Updated on: Mon, 01 September 2008 11:32] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195545] Mon, 01 September 2008 12:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blue_Fox

 
Messages:592
Registered:September 2006
Location: Netherlands
Thought in JA2 original the Knifing Skill reduces the use of a knife with 1 AP.

Razor ...
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195578] Mon, 01 September 2008 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Also, what does experience level.


A whole ton of different things, including stuff you've mentioned.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195583] Mon, 01 September 2008 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Right. Level matters a lot here.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195625] Mon, 01 September 2008 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2006
Headrock


Seriously though, this opens up an interesting discussion - what kinds of game effects would you like to see associated with those traits?


IMO it sounds like it would be huge amounts of fun for the people on this forum to work together and think of interesting things for these traits to do in 1.13.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195649] Mon, 01 September 2008 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Well... shoot!!


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195660] Tue, 02 September 2008 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2006
Headrock
Well... shoot!!


http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=195659&page=0#Post195659

I went and made a new thread for that seperate discussion.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195756] Tue, 02 September 2008 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kensuke

 
Messages:40
Registered:May 2007
Headrock

NONSWIMMER
  • The Non-Swimmer cannot go into water tiles. From what I'm seeing (I hope I'm reading this correctly), they can't even go into shallow water.


This is false. Barry can go into deep and shallow water and he's got the NONSWIMMER trait. Rather, the trait seems to affect how quickly stamina is expended when swimming (and maybe morale, but I haven't checked). Unless you spend a LOT of time doing combat in the swamps (as some do) it's not a huge penalty. CLAUSTROPHOBIC and FORGETFUL are way bigger problems for the reasons you described, which is why I like Barry but don't like Nails or Dimitri respectively.

Otherwise, good guide Headrock.

- John

[Updated on: Tue, 02 September 2008 23:52] by Moderator

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195757] Tue, 02 September 2008 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kensuke

 
Messages:40
Registered:May 2007
smeagol

Irony??? I mean, really... camo is in my opinion the most useless skill there is at the moment. Those camo kits can be obtained pretty cheaply from Bobby ray, if needed and they drop fairly often. And don't forget, that LBE equipment also offers camo bonus. In the later stages (or most often right after the first week) there really is no need for the camo skill. That's why I said in the other threat that camo skill needs a bit extra oomph. -> making the Ghilie suit better (read as: offer more than 100% camouflage), when used by a merc with camo skill, would be a step in the right direction.


Agreed. Camo skill sucks. 1.13 nerfed it because there are different camos for different environs and somebody like Shadow is stuck with 100% woodland cammo.

Didn't the powers that be want to remove it?

- John

Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195759] Wed, 03 September 2008 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fenrir
Messages:4
Registered:August 2008
With the current incarnation of camo, making the skill like electronics would IMHO be the way to go. Meaning no 100% base camo, but more power from camo items than guys without it. Probably the effectiveness of 100% camo would need to be raised too.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195765] Wed, 03 September 2008 01:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
This is false. Barry can go into deep and shallow water and he's got the NONSWIMMER trait. Rather, the trait seems to affect how quickly stamina is expended when swimming (and maybe morale, but I haven't checked). Unless you spend a LOT of time doing combat in the swamps (as some do) it's not a huge penalty. CLAUSTROPHOBIC and FORGETFUL are way bigger problems for the reasons you described, which is why I like Barry but don't like Nails or Dimitri respectively.


Well from what I've seen in the code, whenever a NONSWIMMER character tries to pathfind through water, the program aborts pathfinding (returns "no path through here", basically). I guess maybe the pathfinding function for player characters is different, and doesn't include the blocking code. Strange.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195767] Wed, 03 September 2008 02:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Are you sure?


non-swimmer [can't get from quiz]
Does poorly in deep water (runs out of breath 5x as fast). Can cause verbal complaints.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195773] Wed, 03 September 2008 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
		
if ( (pSold->ubProfile != NO_PROFILE ) && (gMercProfiles[ pSold->ubProfile ].bPersonalityTrait == NONSWIMMER) )
	{
		if ( pSold->usAnimState == DEEP_WATER_TRED || pSold->usAnimState == DEEP_WATER_SWIM)
		{
			sBreathFactor *= 5;		// lose breath 5 times faster in deep water!
		}
	}


Yup. You're right. Turns out the other instances of non-swimmer are actually meant to stop creatures, animals, and civilians from swimming. I read wrong.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #195776] Wed, 03 September 2008 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kensuke

 
Messages:40
Registered:May 2007
Headrock

Well from what I've seen in the code, whenever a NONSWIMMER character tries to pathfind through water, the program aborts pathfinding (returns "no path through here", basically). I guess maybe the pathfinding function for player characters is different, and doesn't include the blocking code. Strange.


It could be dead end code (SirTech left enough of that crap), or it could be something conditional based on morale or physical condition.

All I can tell you is what I've experienced: Barry can swin, albeit with a stamina drop (like Marlboro Man concurs).

- John
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #196314] Sat, 13 September 2008 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sony666
Messages:2
Registered:September 2008
Hello Smile and thank you for compiling the stats here

Headrock

Night-Ops

[list]
[*]Reduces time required for sleep, as well as the speed at which the character loses fatigue. (2)

Martial Arts

[list]
[*]Reduces time required for sleep, as well as the speed at which the character loses fatigue. (2)


Ahh, I have been wondering for years why some mercs need more sleep than others.

It is very annoying when you have a mixed team, the "weak" ones slow the good ones down by serveral hours a day.
So I never pick weak mercs which prevented me from playing a lot with Ivan, Gus and a lot more of the cool ones.
Basically I always end up with Scope, Stephen and Gaston Sad Every time I play..

Nightops/Martial can't be the only thing that makes a "strong" merc though, e.g. Shadow is one of them and has neither.

Are there other stats that influence fatigue rate?
And more importantly, how can I make all mercs into the "need less sleep" veriety?
Will giving everyone Nightops do this as a quick fix?

Thank you again Smile

edit: I'll add a short list of mercs I know from the top of my head ^^

High Stamina
Stephen, Scope, Gaston, Len, Shadow, Ira, Buns, Raven, Dr Q, Grunty

Low Stamina
Ivan, Gus, Magic, Trevor Sad

Very high Stamina
Razor can operate longer than anyone else iirc
Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #196321] Sat, 13 September 2008 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:769
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
The basic need for sleep is also written down in prof.dat, IIRC.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #196325] Sat, 13 September 2008 13:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Yup, that's correct.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #196337] Sat, 13 September 2008 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Right, if you look in your proedit settings, and look under need for sleep setting, you can change that if you want to. The lower the number the less need for sleep. And remember anything you change in proedit you have to start a new game for it to show up.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 2: Character Skills[message #197266] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sony666
Messages:2
Registered:September 2008
Wow I didn't know about proedit.. amazing Smile

Thanks a lot guys.
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