Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » JA2 Solutions. Tips. Spoilers! » How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?
How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #196399] Mon, 15 September 2008 04:29 Go to next message
Kensuke

 
Messages:40
Registered:May 2007
Question is the topic.

We all know that setting BR's to "Awesome" destroys the fun value of the game. I was wondering if I gave my night ops guys silenced pistols and 1st gen NVGs before landing in Arulco would it be considered cheating in the opinion of the board? Or more generally, how much is too much?

- John
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #196404] Mon, 15 September 2008 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
HeroForHire

 
Messages:23
Registered:August 2008
If you ask me, whatever floats your boat.
This is a single player game. Do whatever you enjoy the most.

I`m playing the game on Insane, Iron Man, Normal BR, Sci-Fi and 200% explosives damage with everything else on default for this difficulry except for Insane enemy bonus ap wich I reduced from 5 to 0.
It`s very rewarding for me but I don`t expect everyone to be as retarded like I am to make the game hell for oneself Very Happy
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #196430] Mon, 15 September 2008 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:757
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Night ops guys have a chance of starting with all that as is so it's not "cheating" at all.


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #197648] Mon, 29 September 2008 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rednight

 
Messages:103
Registered:April 2004
Location: United States



IR....The boys from Executive Outcome arrived at their mission with the best gear they could find, and they said it made a big difference (that and training) against the rebels.

To me there is no such thing as cheating JA2 besides the codes that make stuff disappear or magically happen. The Queen has two divisions of troops (16,000 to 20,000) so you need everything you can get your hands on to make a difference.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198044] Fri, 03 October 2008 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
foij

 
Messages:229
Registered:February 2007
Location: in a van, down by the riv...
I prefer to give my IMP nothing (except letter to enrico) and to hire AIM mercs with no equipment. It forces you to go hand to hand and steal all your equipment in the first sector (drop all set to off, of course).
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198047] Fri, 03 October 2008 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3901
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Is it cheating ? Only if you then have 18 heavily armed mercs roaming the countryside , terrorising the populace . Very Happy


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198053] Sat, 04 October 2008 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1775
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
I have 18 of the best AIM mercs roaming the countryside right now (actually, just getting ready to enter Meduna and finish it). I'm also using virtually unlimited funds to finance all of them.
Of course, I also play with 80% Elites, so it could still be said to be a fair game. It's all a matter of perspective. It's only cheating if it feels like cheating.


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198175] Sun, 05 October 2008 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:432
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
Okay Headrock, but I think reloading the game for no good reason also cheating Wink
But if you still like the game that way, that's fine, of course.... It's just a matter of preferences, of course... Smile Everybody his own game and settings... That's the nice thing, sometimes you can use Bobby Ray's normal or awesome, or awesome only allowing to buy used weapons, etc, or buy always different weapons, etc.


I remember playing the demo over and over again and reloading it when several mercs got killed... sector P1?

I liked it at the moment and that's why I bought the game (years later)... I didn't know how the game worked at that moment, but it was fun, even with the "cheating"...

Now I don't reload anymore unless to restart a previous game, or with a bug....

I must admit, though, that I have never completed the game... But I don't mind that...
I always play with one or two IMPs, mostly without any other hired mercs, often without any equipment, experienced, mostly standard v1.13 settings.
When I play the game with a friend we always have just our own IMP, penalty for dying is just the $3000 and restarting with a level 1 merc as the game continues... We allow equipment up to $3000 as well...

Thanks to SpaceViking's showingiteminfo.xml and an excel sheet with macro's I can see which equipment is good and below within this limit.


e.g.:
see below Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 20:52] by Moderator

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198176] Sun, 05 October 2008 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1775
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
I think reloading the game for no good reason also cheating


Define a "good reason".


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198178] Sun, 05 October 2008 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:432
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
"to restart a previous game, or with a bug...."
bug meaning frozen image, hanging, or being thrown out of the game...

as I say, that's my opinion... makes it more exciting, challanging in my opinion...

Mercs don't wanting to join you, low morale, etc, less money... less mercs.... etc... options more depending on the situation, etc...

But I can understand that you like it your way too, tried to explain that... but you should try it otherwise as well... (in my opinion again) Smile You may find it more thrilling... and frustrating, you etc... You will live more yourself if you allow mercs to die Wink

You may curse sometimes Smile
...

Let me tell you a recent experience...
Last week I played the game with a friend and we attacked Drassen airport by night... Because Ira didn't have any body armour yet we left her behind and we just went with our two IMPS...
Trouble was that after a while some roaming enemies came from another sector behind our back and did a burst on Ira, while my buddy's merc was surrounded... Ira was down immediately, but still breathing, so I raced to her in the open, just hoping that the enemy would shoot at me and not at her... He shot at me and missed... I killed the fucker in the next turn and another turn later I started healing Ira, saving her, while my IMP is actually the mechanic (50) with 30 medical and my buddy is actually the one with 60 medical...
He finished off 3 or 4 enemies with his MAC-11 in two turns, just getting nicked himself...

If you had reloaded after Ira was down, you wouldn't have felt this thrill... It's the edge that makes it grand... that's my opinion..

[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 20:56] by Moderator

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198179] Sun, 05 October 2008 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1775
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Oh, I curse enough already. Instead of letting mercs die and other undesirable situations, I just up the ante (as I said, I play against 80% elites, sometimes even 100%). I like to play in many different scenarios, and I get very attached to my mercs since they're often hand-picked and trained intensively. They don't usually die unless either I've made a serious mistake, or the game has some mechanical quirk (like the Hail Mary shots, which is why I changed the minimum CTH to 1/1000). Actually in the 18 merc game I just finished, I reloaded very few times. Also I didn't buy anything from Bobby Ray's, which I recommend to try btw, if you're looking for a challenge.

[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 20:41] by Moderator



Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198181] Sun, 05 October 2008 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:432
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
Yeah, it seems interesting enough... I know what you mean with the Hail Mary's... Up till now we've never reloaded, though.... Lucky shot, I guess..

We play Bobby Ray's normal, but selling items for 20% to the locals (instead of 10%)...

If you have some good starting equipment, then it is possible, but now we're a bit worried with our "basic" gear and a Drassen attack coming up soon... guess we'll first make a night visit or something to the countryside, or take the SAM site before the mine, I don't know yet...

[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 20:57] by Moderator

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198182] Sun, 05 October 2008 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:432
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
Took me a few minutes as Imageshack was down, but.... Starting gear for the 2 IMPS for $3000 each:

IMP 1 (Viking)
http://i34.tinypic.com/2ls72nq.jpg

and

IMP 2 (Vendetta)
http://i34.tinypic.com/2vv1k4h.jpg

[Updated on: Sun, 05 October 2008 20:55] by Moderator

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #198225] Mon, 06 October 2008 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1020
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Provided the prices are true to life and you haven't tweaked the starting cash then as much as you can afford isn't really cheating is it... but it is a balance destroyer imho. If you want the Impies to come in fully kitted out it'd only be fair that the enemy are similar decked out to respond in kind.

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #205953] Fri, 09 January 2009 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tg1098
Messages:2
Registered:January 2009
Location: USA
I don't really think a Glock 18 counts as "cheating". Or, for that matter, the MAC-11. You're still going to be in harm's way if you use them, as neither have a silencer, and they don't outrange the enemy weaponry by enough to matter. The only thing on that list I might consider cheating is the SWAT vest, since it would be a significant amount of time before you could get your hands on that (awesome BR aside). Though, if you really think about it, changing the settings to drop all and having BR set to awesome is more realistic. I mean, if you're going to be able to bring any small arms into the country, you're going to bring a Gepard Mk IV into the country instead of having to wait around until BR decides to stop selling only rinky dink pistols, and soldiers who shoot at you don't pour acid on their weapons after they die. Just something to think about...it's a game, and isn't meant to be completely realistic.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #205954] Fri, 09 January 2009 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:757
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
I think a better title for this topic would be:

How little equipment does it take to force you to "cheat" to get a game started?

On Expert it is difficult to win even the opening battle with standard equipment from "starter" mercs without resorting to the save/load dance. I usually always now add some Mini 14's at the landing site and even then it is tough (I don't generally reload except for TPKs).


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #205955] Fri, 09 January 2009 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Badbru

 
Messages:63
Registered:January 2008
Location: Perth Australia
I've edited my Omerta map so some things are waiting for me. Mostly it's body armour and gadgets, like a Kobra, ACOG combo, pistol silencer etc. However I leave all of them at lowish possibilities though, usually 10% to 30% so sometimes the treated spectra vest is there, and sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the Kobra is there and the ACOG isn't. There's an M4a1 that's been there for a few games but not all of them. The other weapon is a SIG 551 but this only showed up once so I must've had that at 10%. Keeps it random enough for me whilst still allowing two or three people to have a chance against 24 strong roaming patrols.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #205959] Fri, 09 January 2009 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:757
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Hint: see my sig for the part about "extra equipment". No more editing of maps required!

--update--

You know, I thought I had something in there to allow for a random chance of the equipment showing up but I see I don't. I'll add that.

[Updated on: Fri, 09 January 2009 21:30] by Moderator



Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #206353] Wed, 14 January 2009 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
viracicha

 
Messages:103
Registered:November 2007
[quote=HeroForHire]If you ask me, whatever floats your boat.
This is a single player game. Do whatever you enjoy the most.

I`m playing the game on Insane, Iron Man, Normal BR, Sci-Fi and 200% explosives damage with everything else on default for this difficulry except for Insane enemy bonus ap wich I reduced from 5 to 0.
It`s very rewarding for me but I don`t expect everyone to be as retarded like I am to make the game hell for oneself

u good, i do the same but only in expert, i want to be like u soon.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #206362] Thu, 15 January 2009 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sphinx

 
Messages:43
Registered:February 2007
Badbru
I've edited my Omerta map so some things are waiting for me.

You know, that just might be the best way to go. I was thinking, like, adding dozens items on the Omerta map, all with fairly low probability to appear. Is there some upper limit for items that can be placed on a map?


So when you start a new game, you'd get fairly different starting equipment every time, which means you'd have to adapt to the situation. Starting a new game to get better items should become a turn-off because even though you -might- get better item spawns, you would very likely not get the current items which may include few decent items. This means you'd consider starting a new game only if the initial item spawns are extremely poor. In theory anyway.


Other than that, I'd say that IMP is allowed to start with
- a random SMG (100% condition, w/ small scope)
- 100 rounds of regular (ball) ammo
- Kevlar vest (100% condition)
- FA kit
- Tool kit at 49% (for that slower repair speed)
Anything more than that and .. well.. it starts to get cheaty, imo.

Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #206731] Tue, 20 January 2009 06:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sphinx

 
Messages:43
Registered:February 2007
Here. Spent good 30 minutes of making and testing an alternate start map (sector A9). There's now an extra crate in the Fatima's bedroom (left by Enrico's friends, if you will) with hopefully not too many goodies inside. Added good bunch of decent guns, all in 42% condition and with some ammo plus some separate accessories and few other items, each with 2% chance to appear, with the exception of few energy boosters. There's also a crappy tool kit and a FA kit, both with 100% chance to appear. Created with Map Editor.exe that was with SVN release 1066.

Download link
http://uploading.com/files/MACTUQ2I/A9.zip.html
(might have to wait in line for a minute or two)

Instructions for newbies:
1. Download the file and extract to \Data-1.13\Maps folder (create the Maps folder if it doesn't already exist)
2. That's it! Start a new game and go nuts.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #206733] Tue, 20 January 2009 06:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:757
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
Note that my extra equipment addition is now in the main code. See my web site for how to use it.


Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #209046] Thu, 19 February 2009 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kindred

 
Messages:122
Registered:September 2006
Location: Australia, baby!
Personally, unexpected things happening is what makes me love JA2. The most rewarding game I've ever finished successfully was back in the days before I knew 1.13 existed. I lost my IMP in Drassen's mine sector, Buns taking the North East SAM site, and Barry bit it retreating to Drassen when I accidentally pressed the Auto Combat button. That left me with a wounded Ira, who went on to become a killing machine, recruiting the other rebels as they became available. For the longest time I couldn't get any AIM mercs to join me, so I ended the game with a rabble of RPCs and MERC rejects.
Re: How much equipment can your merc start with before it becomes cheating?[message #209096] Fri, 20 February 2009 14:31 Go to previous message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2050
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
I still think that I have had the best games on Novice difficulty. You get hardly any equipment from drops, Elites scare the pants off you and are ALWAYS far better equipped than you as you haven't been able to steal from 50 Elite patrols. Drassen Counter-Attack with pistols and one or two SMG's is truly terrifying, though with some interesting tactics you can have a lot of fun with the pistols Very Happy

I personally think the difficulty settings are almost back to front!


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